I talked to my sales rep in Toledo, He talked to Alpine and they wont know anything Firm until they meet in California in December for the Rep conference. It will likely show up at CES in January and we will see it in stores March and maybe as late as June.. I hope its sooner then that I am salivating at the news.. Although I do have to save up the money to buy one.. I am expecting retail at 700 real world around 600. On par with the MS-8