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Old 02-22-2017   #451
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Yes lowering the target will do a cut as well....it's just the boost in the filter we are concerned about. It can add cuts all day long and be fine...

Bigger the null you see guess what.....

So ......

I'm going ask around and see if all the volumes are done in the filter or if there is in fact two volumes .....that would really help us to making better judgments on how we draw our target and set our levels within the DL box

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Old 02-22-2017   #452
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
That's the thing, what he(and a few others around here) is using isn't "simple" time alignment. Think of it an more like an EQ, but for time, and with thousands of adjustment points.



You should do some reading in the DIRAC and APL threads, fascinating stuff.

HELL YEAH!!! I WANT THAT!!!

HOW DO I BUY IT, FROM WHOM, & HOW MUCH $$???
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Old 02-22-2017   #453
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

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Originally Posted by Izay123 View Post
HELL YEAH!!! I WANT THAT!!!

HOW DO I BUY IT, FROM WHOM, & HOW MUCH $$???
Haha, well, from minidsp, manual stuff:
https://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series
or Dirac stuff:
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series

From APL Audio:
Acoustic Power Lab :: Home
Han’s review here: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...tion-unit.html

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Old 02-22-2017   #454
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

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Originally Posted by Izay123 View Post
HELL YEAH!!! I WANT THAT!!!

HOW DO I BUY IT, FROM WHOM, & HOW MUCH $$???


Do your research and do it well.....

The apl is good but has fixed point architecture....
However it has some very cool software

(Fixed vs. floating ...in short better stop band rejection for the floating and fixed has less noise. However floating point is MACd so it's noiseless also so eeh floating if I were to pick )
Dirac has floating point architecture. More user friendly
And can get a good solid usable tune in minutes
Opendrc boxes are where it's at IMO if you want to do the corrections manually
That's the same as the Dirac box except it's do it yourself and have to use third party tools....(which are great IMO )
The minidsp 2x4HDs are the perfect DAC and DsP all in one and has its own FIr bank built in so you could use those for all your corrections and it's a good dsp on top of it's all that runs at 96k....one of the few that do.
So it's a opendrc And a dsp all in one ..but you need two of them minimum for a 4 way not too shabby
I use 3 2x4HDs and use 2 of them as a 2x2. It's works well
And have a Dirac box before them...
That way I have enough fir processing to do my own filters and corrections and have a Dirac box to finish off and it's the icing on the cake

I would say don't get trapped into a "beginners" mentality and try to justify buying a box that doesn't do what YOU want. Buy what peaks your interest after some serious study time on what it all does and how to Basicly use each

You won't regret it

Btw , glad to see u back

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

Last edited by oabeieo; 02-22-2017 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 02-22-2017   #455
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Default Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post




Do your research and do it well.....



The apl is good but has fixed point architecture....

However it has some very cool software



(Fixed vs. floating ...in short better stop band rejection for the floating and fixed has less noise. However floating point is MACd so it's noiseless also so eeh floating if I were to pick )

Dirac has floating point architecture. More user friendly

And can get a good solid usable tune in minutes

Opendrc boxes are where it's at IMO if you want to do the corrections manually

That's the same as the Dirac box except it's do it yourself and have to use third party tools....(which are great IMO )

The minidsp 2x4HDs are the perfect DAC and DsP all in one and has its own FIr bank built in so you could use those for all your corrections and it's a good dsp on top of it's all that runs at 96k....one of the few that do.

So it's a opendrc And a dsp all in one ..but you need two of them minimum for a 4 way not too shabby

I use 3 2x4HDs and use 2 of them as a 2x2. It's works well

And have a Dirac box before them...

That way I have enough fir processing to do my own filters and corrections and have a Dirac box to finish off and it's the icing on the cake



I would say don't get trapped into a "beginners" mentality and try to justify buying a box that doesn't do what YOU want. Buy what peaks your interest after some serious study time on what it all does and how to Basicly use each



You won't regret it



Btw , glad to see u back

(Edited after a bit more googling)


Hmmm... Is miniDSP the only brand offering a box that does this? Or are there other boxes/ways to do it? I'm currently running Zapco DSP-Z8 IV & am lined up & waiting for first shipment of Z16HDRs for competition use.

What's the most expedient way to ADD that functionality to a setup with Zapco DSP already? If I have to, I may try out a miniDSP DiracLive unit ( but only use it on Aux input as the sample rate seems lower than Zapco's native rate--& I wouldn't want to limit frequency response). here's screenshot of normal Zap DSP IV--with some initial experimental points & slopes. Can you post screenshot of your controls for Dirac & any other brand? I feel like Pro Audio HAS to use this software....






Judging by the training video & specs, I suppose JL's FIX box must be using a similar software with an auto-tuning capability enabled...

Last edited by Izay123; 02-23-2017 at 12:05 AM..
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Old 02-23-2017   #456
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

These FIR processors go before your "normal" processor, so it should be as simple as adding one. The hard part is wrapping your head around how it works and wha it's doing.

When the top comes off, the tops come off!
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Old 02-23-2017   #457
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izay123 View Post
(Edited after a bit more googling)


Hmmm... Is miniDSP the only brand offering a box that does this? Or are there other boxes/ways to do it? I'm currently running Zapco DSP-Z8 IV & am lined up & waiting for first shipment of Z16HDRs for competition use.

What's the most expedient way to ADD that functionality to a setup with Zapco DSP already? If I have to, I may try out a miniDSP DiracLive unit ( but only use it on Aux input as the sample rate seems lower than Zapco's native rate--& I wouldn't want to limit frequency response). here's screenshot of normal Zap DSP IV--with some initial experimental points & slopes. Can you post screenshot of your controls for Dirac & any other brand? I feel like Pro Audio HAS to use this software....






Judging by the training video & specs, I suppose JL's FIX box must be using a similar software with an auto-tuning capability enabled...
With an existing dsp...

Dirac live
Opendrc
Or APL1

Imho Dirac live is the hotness. I've used opendrc and Dirac and read a TON on APL1....can't get around the fixed point architecture.....not as powerful but effective as heck

The only thing I don't like about the Durack is that it will not force you to learn all about impulse responses and FIR in general because it does everything for you for the sake of learning you might want to try the APL one or the open DRC

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Old 02-23-2017   #458
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Yes I will post screenshots of my equipment tonight if I can make a video for you soon as I get home from work tonight ....

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-23-2017   #459
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izay123 View Post
(Edited after a bit more googling)


Hmmm... Is miniDSP the only brand offering a box that does this? Or are there other boxes/ways to do it? I'm currently running Zapco DSP-Z8 IV & am lined up & waiting for first shipment of Z16HDRs for competition use.

What's the most expedient way to ADD that functionality to a setup with Zapco DSP already? If I have to, I may try out a miniDSP DiracLive unit ( but only use it on Aux input as the sample rate seems lower than Zapco's native rate--& I wouldn't want to limit frequency response). here's screenshot of normal Zap DSP IV--with some initial experimental points & slopes. Can you post screenshot of your controls for Dirac & any other brand? I feel like Pro Audio HAS to use this software....


Judging by the training video & specs, I suppose JL's FIX box must be using a similar software with an auto-tuning capability enabled...
There is a large range of products using FIR, from jbl ms-2/ms-8, minidsp suite, apl, and many in PA but I can only remember a few right now: coneq, marani, powersoft
But since you have multi channels you might want to try the ddrc-88, open or dirac version.

You can find a bunch of screenshots here in this thread as I used apl and Dirac, in Oab’ thread about Opendrc and Dirac, with LumbermanSVO about APL, and few more.
Dirac has very limited controls and gives easily and quickly great results.
APL has way more controls, everything is customizable there, will give great results as well.

Also there’s or there was a lot discussions about FIR here. I remember one between Andy and Raimonds but there was many more.

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Old 02-23-2017   #460
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

I have a video uploading it should be live in about an hour

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Old 02-23-2017   #461
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

The 8ch version of Dirac is geared towards surround , and each channel has limited taps...

You would get a better overall correction with a 2ch version if using a dsp.

The 8ch version has crossovers and peq built in and is meant to act as a dsp and Dirac together for the most part and uses a different algo...

I would get an apl , Dirac or opendrc 2x2 and just do FR PH all in one go if it's a 2ch setup.
If you use a center and have rears the 8ch would be the way to go.

The algo in the 8ch uses the rears not just as a sound source but as a reinforcement for imaging and bass. Like a active bass trap. Impo I think the 8ch version would be difficult to implement in a car. It does have a custom mode where you can assign outputs and make it 2ch however a opendrc/Dirac would be able to make better use of its abilitys and taps with a existing dsp...more bang for buck .

Ya know minidsp is pimpin Dirac live DDRC22 boxes as "the best in room correction " and is featured on just about all of there pages..... for a reason....
Anyway ......I

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...correction.pdf

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Old 02-23-2017   #462
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

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Very cool paper! A bit over my head at the beginning but pages 8/9/10 are very interesting!
Some common points with the other one you posted it seems (too hard for me the other one).
Thx!

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Old 02-24-2017   #463
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Good gosh I waited two hours for my vid to upload
And at the very very end it said it was too long and my account wasn't activated...

So I activated my account and tried again two more hours and same thing!

So I'm have to re do it tonight and make a series of 10min videos

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-24-2017   #464
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

How did u do that?

Link a post like that?

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Old 02-24-2017   #465
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Good gosh I waited two hours for my vid to upload
And at the very very end it said it was too long and my account wasn't activated...

So I activated my account and tried again two more hours and same thing!

So I'm have to re do it tonight and make a series of 10min videos
Arghhh


Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
How did u do that?

Link a post like that?
the «*other*» one? I just copied the link of the post (clic on the #xxx of the post on the right) then pasted with the «*earth/link*» icon (top of the text box). But I think there’s a direct tool for this in the forum, how to quote a post.

Btw, do you have more stuff from Dirac research? Didn’t find much myself, other than some forum talking.
But this hone here is really cool, enlightens a bit its behavior.
As I found on some forums it seems that the 1st measurements is really important, other than for TA of course, it also drives everything else, with the target. Than all other 8 sweeps are more here to draw the big picture so the algo can decide which dips/peaks to tame and how (iir of fir or both), while optimizing the time coherence for the stereo effect.
Well sounds obvious like that but since the APL I’m still wondering how they really work, I mean in logic and details.

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Old 02-24-2017   #466
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

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Arghhh




the «*other*» one? I just copied the link of the post (clic on the #xxx of the post on the right) then pasted with the «*earth/link*» icon (top of the text box). But I think there’s a direct tool for this in the forum, how to quote a post.

Btw, do you have more stuff from Dirac research? Didn’t find much myself, other than some forum talking.
But this hone here is really cool, enlightens a bit its behavior.
As I found on some forums it seems that the 1st measurements is really important, other than for TA of course, it also drives everything else, with the target. Than all other 8 sweeps are more here to draw the big picture so the algo can decide which dips/peaks to tame and how (iir of fir or both), while optimizing the time coherence for the stereo effect.
Well sounds obvious like that but since the APL I’m still wondering how they really work, I mean in logic and details.


How do you think I know how that shit works dude I've been digging and digging and digging and digging for a while now to find out exactly what this thing does ..... pretty sure I got the most of it now but yeah definitely will share what I can find I didn't save much of it is bookmarks but I will try and pull up some of the stuff from memory I just pulled up to work so will have to be tonight
Yeah I've got a lot of little treasures I can share I have to dig them back up ,
That one is pretty good yeah it's a good read for sure but it definitely gets down into the nitty-gritty of it .

You should check out YouTube and look up Matthies Johansson Dirac
Is the inventor of it and there's some really really good videos out there
But yeah I'll find some more white papers too

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Old 02-24-2017   #467
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Will do! Will check these videos for the week end, here’s just a good one too:
Dirac Room Correction Interview With Mathias Johansson | Audioholics

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Old 02-24-2017   #468
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

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Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Will do! Will check these videos for the week end, here’s just a good one too:
Dirac Room Correction Interview With Mathias Johansson | Audioholics

Ha seen it already

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Old 02-24-2017   #469
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

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Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
You can find a bunch of screenshots here in this thread as I used apl and Dirac, in Oab’ thread about Opendrc and Dirac, with LumbermanSVO about APL, and few more.
Also, I'm willing to help anyone with the tuning process of the APL, but you must be patient with my time. I am a touring video guy and some weeks have nothing but time on my hands, and other weeks wish I could find the time to brush my teeth. Either way, feel free to ask my any question you may have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Also there’s or there was a lot discussions about FIR here. I remember one between Andy and Raimonds but there was many more.
I don't remember this discussion, do you happen to have a link? I had a MS2 that I picked up for $40 on Amazon and used it in rental cars when I travel, but it died after less than six months of use.

When the top comes off, the tops come off!
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Old 02-24-2017   #470
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Here's a test video I made
I'm tuning a 1994 Supra at work...
Has two kicker IQ amps and hertz 3 way front
And hertz 7" midbass in rear
It's finally taking shape and I'll have more time to do my stuff it's almost done
This is the hertz with no eq and no sub ....pretty dam smooth responce for zero eq

And I'll make that video for iazy now that I know I can't go over 10min
I made this one as a test run and it worked

It turned out pretty nice

https://youtu.be/-vYYsGnG2jY










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im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

Last edited by oabeieo; 02-24-2017 at 11:24 PM..
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Old 02-25-2017   #471
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Sorry to hijack with stupid cars and stupid amplifiers anyway I will try and get that video done tonight I finally got that thing done so I can have my evenings back

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-25-2017   #472
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Ha seen it already
Didn't find much more, maybe 4 or 5:
https://twit.tv/shows/home-theater-g...utostart=false
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDMxk9j4Mw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmkiZtDy0o

Just watched the first one, kind of video version of the pdf you linked, not bad



Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
I don't remember this discussion, do you happen to have a link? I had a MS2 that I picked up for $40 on Amazon and used it in rental cars when I travel, but it died after less than six months of use.
HEre I think (didn;t re-read): https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ink-input.html




Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Sorry to hijack with stupid cars and stupid amplifiers anyway I will try and get that video done tonight I finally got that thing done so I can have my evenings back
Haha no worry man, good to see your face in the vid’
So midbass in the trunk facing rear?
But it looks sure nice

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Old 02-25-2017   #473
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Didn't find much more, maybe 4 or 5:
https://twit.tv/shows/home-theater-g...utostart=false
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDMxk9j4Mw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmkiZtDy0o

Just watched the first one, kind of video version of the pdf you linked, not bad





HEre I think (didn;t re-read): https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ink-input.html






Haha no worry man, good to see your face in the vid’
So midbass in the trunk facing rear?
But it looks sure nice

Those are subs 10w1 JL ....

For crappy equipment it sounded pretty dam good



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The avcam guy is funny

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

Last edited by oabeieo; 02-25-2017 at 10:58 PM..
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Old 02-25-2017   #474
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Okay here's a Dirac vid ....

Pretty dam easy to do

https://youtu.be/flW9w4MiGoY

I'll do rephase one and minidsp tomo

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-26-2017   #475
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Finally a 2x4HD video and some very short showing of rephase


Sorry for delay

https://youtu.be/v_aJUgMHIpk

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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