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Old 11-01-2017   #676
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

So, just want to also give you a big ole heads up now, pretty important


So I have a collection of CDs and a collection of bad diaphragms.
Hereís why;

When using linear phase crossovers , I was using rectangular windows and optimized to -150db ..... and than using peq to cut the peaks in the acoustical response. So, the fir performance was good using that method, however I kept blowing CDs , one of my 2408h voice coil came unglued from diaphragm. What was happening was the stop band wasnít cutting LF. After a really close look , a 100db measurement showed at -50db some LF peaks at 200hz and 50hz ........ so it was getting a few watts still way down low.


A purely linear phase crossover in an fir will have stop band issues. I talked to pos over at diy and apparently thatís pretty normal for an fir. So, I came up with a better approach and a better sounding filter all together.

1. Use an IIR crossover to find what slope and xo point you want to use, than make it in a
Fir but use this recipe.

If you want a LR4 and you notice the acoustical shape is LR2 with your IIR -LR4 than make a linear phase LR2 and add a BW2 on top of it in IIR. This will do two things , 1. Make it truly linear phase and 2, give you adequate stop band rejection.


I didnít want the ringing from an IIR from its inherent ringing from its loopbacks, but itís such a tiny tiny tiny arguably inaudible ring that it so much outweighs the risks of blown drivers.

On a different subject. Iíve also found the GD caused by an IIR can be desirable to get alignment to mid on the HP side , meaning the horn using a purely minimum phase crossover.


On my setup if I use a LR4 at 1k acoustically it looks like approximately 9 dB oactave roll off using a LR4 overlay shows that also. I am now using a 18db linearphase LR xo and a BW2 IIR on top of it (at 1Khz) Iím liking it quite a bit. Itís acoustically a LR4 and overlay is almost perfect. However electrically its a mutant LR BW with 36db attenuation. The measured phase is flat. And uniform at stop band and sums to mid much better.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 11-01-2017   #677
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Thatís a cool DSP.
Yep,
did you see that? https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88d
Might be cool if you want to play with Dacs.
Don't know how the taps are distributed in 3 way mode, or if itís even the same sharc inside (probably). But nice all in one solution!



Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Mic sold you that? Was he convoluted like us? (Lol)
What car did he have that in is what Iím sayin ( pics?)
The amps only yes, I think he had them in an acura, the last one.
They got all kind of mods from Gordon, can't see anything to add.
Just playing with different tubes maybe.

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Old 11-01-2017   #678
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Wow , I missed that one .

Itís ďidealĒ for cinema ....

BS to English means low taps low delay. I wonder if itís a single minisharc and uses a one forward and one reverse FFT to get 8ch. And if it goes to 198K taps would be pretty whimsy

Have to wait and see what it actually is

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 11-01-2017   #679
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
So, just want to also give you a big ole heads up now, pretty important


So I have a collection of CDs and a collection of bad diaphragms.
Hereís why;

When using linear phase crossovers , I was using rectangular windows and optimized to -150db ..... and than using peq to cut the peaks in the acoustical response. So, the fir performance was good using that method, however I kept blowing CDs , one of my 2408h voice coil came unglued from diaphragm. What was happening was the stop band wasnít cutting LF. After a really close look , a 100db measurement showed at -50db some LF peaks at 200hz and 50hz ........ so it was getting a few watts still way down low.


A purely linear phase crossover in an fir will have stop band issues. I talked to pos over at diy and apparently thatís pretty normal for an fir. So, I came up with a better approach and a better sounding filter all together.

1. Use an IIR crossover to find what slope and xo point you want to use, than make it in a
Fir but use this recipe.

If you want a LR4 and you notice the acoustical shape is LR2 with your IIR -LR4 than make a linear phase LR2 and add a BW2 on top of it in IIR. This will do two things , 1. Make it truly linear phase and 2, give you adequate stop band rejection.


I didnít want the ringing from an IIR from its inherent ringing from its loopbacks, but itís such a tiny tiny tiny arguably inaudible ring that it so much outweighs the risks of blown drivers.

On a different subject. Iíve also found the GD caused by an IIR can be desirable to get alignment to mid on the HP side , meaning the horn using a purely minimum phase crossover.


On my setup if I use a LR4 at 1k acoustically it looks like approximately 9 dB oactave roll off using a LR4 overlay shows that also. I am now using a 18db linearphase LR xo and a BW2 IIR on top of it (at 1Khz) Iím liking it quite a bit. Itís acoustically a LR4 and overlay is almost perfect. However electrically its a mutant LR BW with 36db attenuation. The measured phase is flat. And uniform at stop band and sums to mid much better.
I need to install my 2nd sharc to try manual fir... now that my amps are close to be done I could start on that.
Did you try the eclipse soft/ fir designer? Looks easy and Michael seems helpful.
But I would need to re-read this whole thread

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Old 11-03-2017   #680
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
I need to install my 2nd sharc to try manual fir... now that my amps are close to be done I could start on that.
Did you try the eclipse soft/ fir designer? Looks easy and Michael seems helpful.
But I would need to re-read this whole thread
Yeah Iíve filldled with a few different convolution platforms
rePhase is the best still in my humbleness.

rePhase gives me everything useful to me without the need to import a measurement into it. Although for doing a full correction for a channel that is the best way to import a measurement, but for crossovers and some small phase rotations I find it faster to just use REW and calculate any small adjustments from there manually.

My new method works better by adding a minimum phase filter on top of lineage phase until I achieve acoustic linear phase. Keeps everything even as far as maintaining minimum phase behavior in the crossover. And only cutting big peaks out of stop band with peq to avoid any pre ring.

Iíve noticed you can go down in phase all you want as long as attenuation is constant. Once thereís a rise in amplitude and phase is ďflatĒ on a prediction it will ring and sound echoing. Or pre echoed. Another words , on a linear phase PEQ for reproduction will sound normal except the frequencies that go from bottom of peak to top of peak . Those will ring . Same principle.
Can been seen with GD and the ETC function in REW.

So basically, mixed phase crossovers sound great. Itís more linear that a purely linear phase crossover, unless the acoustics match the fir, but I have never seen that. At least not in a car .

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 11-19-2017   #681
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Hey my friend,
I wanted to do a long post about that 'cause it's something I wanted to test for a while, but I don't feel like it... this weekend I tried a bunch of horns, regular/home horns in my car.
More than a dozen, from super cheap from PE to moderate price found here and there, small to wide mouth like some faital aluminium, think jbl, seos, etc
In kicks or on dash or just wherever I could fit them, horizontal and vertical, angled or not, measured and listened every time.
Final result, nothing beats the ES, in term of overall experience.
Almost all measured way better than the ES, like much smoother. They loaded better, more extension etc. But the dispersion pattern just never made sense.
Measurements in position, not outside or on baffle as it doesn't make sense like I've seen some.
Few point, mostly 6pts off to on axis around my head, but this was useless.
Real listening all of them sounded like crap.
it's not that I thought I would discover anything, but I wanted to check for myself.

Only thing I see, would be to fit them vertical right below the windshield.
But that means heavy modifications of the dash.

So now I want to test other stuff, like big domes or planar.
Tbc

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Old 11-21-2017   #682
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Nothing beats the es , that is no joke ! Iíve done a lot
Also, I like the wide sound field pa horns give but the controlled dispersion really truly lays the coverage pattern exactly what you want close proximity, off center , off axis .

Itís like dumping scrabble out on floor to have perfect arrangements fall into place.



Heya check out my rePhase thread ,I was feeling silly tonight . Itís a good laugh itís in the members review

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 11-22-2017   #683
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Yep, some sounded ok, and probably really good for home (like the sth100 from faital), but in car it was just too controlled.
I mean not enough reflections, a little too "pinpoint".
This + some other stuff are changing my perspective on the pattern control.
I mean for long time I thought the good sound of the horn came from its directivity, roughly the idea of reducing off axis and all related reflections to an acceptable level. It's really obvious on the minis with their high crosstalk, but it doesn't mean that the rest is much controlled.
(it's still kind of hard to visualize the horn dispersion since it's so variable per frequency, flip thing, dash effect etc, even after tons of readings and simulations)
But it's a moot point in a way.
It's sure about dynamic and sensitivity, but about the pattern it 's now more clear to me that it's just a different way to manage the chaos, not real control.

So now I want to try other stuff, going back to full dispersion drivers, cones or domes or others, but keeping high sensitivity, and above dash for ex.
(I had an idea for a midrange in door with phase plugs but it's still too early to report).
Even if I really love my audax, they can't play too high being so off axis.
While they're clearly designed for that, the near on axis fr is crazy high above 2k, that's where it really starts singing!
I have a pair of phl to test, + just received some bg neo 8&10 and I'm waiting for some audax 1.3" and some other guys.
Might try line array too at one time, eon one style (i think it's a peerless tc6, based on what I've seen yesterday).

I'm saying that because I had another visit at harman, the whole tour this time, that was soooo cool
Got the chance to talk to few designers/engineers, a demo of few stuff like the new scl2 (really cool, powerful and clean).
Some interesting drivers in this, a small CD (0.8") on a very shallow waveguide (m2 like) that maybe we'll be able to buy in parts later.

About short throat, or minimal load, I also tried my CD hornless last week end.
And it's not bad at all!
You can put them in dash corners, stage gets really great of course. Big diffusion since it's small throat, minimal loading with just 1" tube. I measured and distortion was low no worries.
But there was still something strange, like a thin metallic sound sometime.
I just played 20 min swithcing with the real horns below, at moderate volume without any eq. Might be a stretch for them at real level, but might be ok since in car it's still much lower than what they were designed for.
Something to study, there is something here, maybe with a beefier driver...

Well anyway I have a bunch of ideas for next steps.
But this week end I'll try my new steg A

Sure I checked your rephase thread, I just don't want to interrupt, keep going!


Last edited by Elgrosso; 11-22-2017 at 08:55 PM..
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Old 11-24-2017   #684
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Oh my my my, I think my amp quest has ended... installed the steggy yesterday.
Sure it's a bit too early for final words but putain de bordel de merde it sounds soooo good!
This guy is pure heaven and breathes quality in every aspects.

It's the first time I wanted to spend more time than needed in my car, parked, just for listening.
Usually yeah I go there and tune, listen a bit etc, but rarely more than 20min.
I just prefer the driving experience, and it feels a little silly to spend time in this box when I have real life around.
But today I went there for my expresso, and I went back for a smoke, and went back for nothing, just to check I wasn't cheating myself.

This is a wonderful piece of art, punto.
It was not easy to spot the difference at first, but when I switched back to the other amps it just jumped at me. Sure this is just subjective bullshit to you but I tried my best to compare objectively... I have to accept my feelings, this is just heaven!
And I think you can only spot heaven when you tried audio hell, when in this case hell was already pretty good for few months, top I was able to get at least.

Shit, the Italians created another masterpiece! I so love these guys (...read women )

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Old 11-25-2017   #685
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Ok so now the plan is to get another MSK classe A, or put mids and horns on the same guy.
I checked about adjustable passive crossovers, not much thing around (someone tried vidsonic?)
A focal crossblock would be perfect, if it can work with 8 ohms.
But for the price I'd prefer another amp direclty...

For now I'll try some passive ready made crossovers from PRV and Eminence.
I assume power would be enough, [email protected], if the passive block doesn't eat too much.
I have less about 1ms delay between them, even with asymetric slopes dirac should be able to fix that, hope it will work, that could be the next step after heaven

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Old 11-27-2017   #686
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

I still have a MSK3000 and a pair of MSK1500s.
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Old 11-27-2017   #687
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Emails sent!

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Old 12-03-2017   #688
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

I tried again few more drivers/horns today, goal being to try again something on dash, but without losing too much on dynamic.
I'm really not sure 'll go there but I wanted to hear again a more regular setup.

First the last of my short and narrow horns, the whole thing can get small and manageable, but it didn't sound right.
It's possible to get a nice FR but sense of space is lost anyway.






Then with a bigger CD, a radian 745 that I want to fit one day on the fullbody.
But for now test on dash with or without a small waveguide, I know it sounds silly but worths a try:





Not much to gain compared to my 1", they can go lower but FR is really messy.
With the waveguide it sounds too small, too narrow, and tonality is not great, like metallic.
Without it's a little better, more reflections so it's less restricted, but tonality will still need too much work.
And for its size there's no benefits, also it would be quite underused (-15db).



hivi rt2 pro

It's a test, I wasn't sure I could remove the faceplate but yes it went well.
This guy is probably one of the smaller/thinner/long planar with high sensitivity (98/99db)
Wide horizontal dispersion but quite narrow vertically of course.
I tried all kind of places and orientation, flat on the dash in the corner was not bad for the dispersion, but high suffered too much.
Best was vertical at the edge pillar/dash, but no way to fix it here and it's too intrusive.
2nd place not far behind was high on pillar, very discrete.
It's a little higher than my head so direct sound was still ok while the the wide horizontal one brings a good sense of space.
It sounded really good, really clean and airy, should be even better in stereo.
I think I'll get another one. It is so small it would be easy to integrate cleanly.
And it high sensitivity allows to play with XOs still safely.
But it's quite heavy...







And then the Audax with the waveguide adapted (enlarged the hole a bit to fit cleanly)
It's the TW034XO, waveguide is a monacor wg300, they sounded better like that than last week without it.
They gave me the best results today, so kept them for almost an hour while listening.
FR is pretty smooth and symmetric before EQ, more than with the all small cones I had on dash before, must be the waveguide.
So it was easy to tune quickly for something listenable.
Down to 1600/24 with no issue, with still some room for power as it has good sensitivity (I saw a mod on troels' site maybe I'll try).
It was really a cool experience, back to all the subtile highs that I lost with the horns.
And naturally a stable high stage, much wider on left. The pr17s disappeared completely.
A little in your face, but I hope with perfect TA and a good tune they should blend perfectly and be amazing.




Yes it's on the big sizeÖ but they appear bigger on the photo than in real, and it's not an ugly setup with the simple dash shape.
As theyíre shallow even with the waveguide I could play with tilt etc more, here they are vertical and firing to the center.
I think I can cut the waveguide to put them slightly deeper/wider/lower so they won't hide the view.

I also wanted to test these waveguide on the gb15 but it won't be so easy, the little guy has a deeper recess to manage.
Also its dome shape is clearly round, maybe not a fit as good as the audax that is closer to half an egg shape.

For now back to the horns that still sound lovely but tbc...

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Old 12-03-2017   #689
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Been there , done that, have a shelf full of plastic horns , Stevens hits the spot for me every time.

Stevens horns with no time delay has always been just right. Or very minimal time delay less tha .5ms



I liked how wide the small horns sounded with no delay and how they were more open and airy up high , but they forced me to delay to get centered . And thatís where everything collapsed. Too high in frequency to do anything useful in fir ,

What about Stevens horns down low with a 6db LPF at 1.6khz and a small horn tweeter up top crosssed at 3k (6db) with proper eq to kill the 2nd oactave (or an overlapping filter in fir) that way you can get the highs up high but get patter control to 2.5k .....

I did that in my focus and lived the way it sounded , I couldnít tell there was an under dash horn at all. Hass it to the tops and your golden


Btw I wanna try those radian drivers . Lmk when your over it with them

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 12-04-2017   #690
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Yeah nothing new we talked about it but I waited so long to get enough horns from everywhere at an ok price I had to test for myself. After the few first last weeks I knew it won't go well, but finished anyway you never know.
Clearly the ES full or minis have the best pattern.
Yesterday during my little thing I was able to toggle quickly between horn/new driver when one side only. And it happened few times that I forgot the preset and which driver was playing. Everything appeared to come from the same spot, in the corner of my dash at the same level than the other driver tested, impressive.

Yes I could try a supertweeter, it would bring more depth and rise the stage, but I'd need 5 way, doable but only later maybe. I also wanted to re-test regular dome tweeters. Just a little beefier so they could handle more dynamic.
My minis are actually at around 6k/12db, acoustic it's more like 2.5khz/24, and I like very much the audax up there.
I was afraid it would be too much in beaming but fr is still pretty consistent, if I have a hole it's not really hearable.
They are really sharp and I like their snap, plus they're the wider drivers so it helps.
Only on specific tracks I could still get the rainbow, nothing much to do I think.
And left side is still too compressed, barely behind the mirror.

Dirac doesn't help here, it brings a lot of definition and clarity, but the stage is pretty good already pre-dirac. Many times I don't even turn it on just to check.

For the radians, well they're ready to go if you want. Won't be able to fit them down there anyway :/

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Old 12-15-2017   #691
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

I fired up the cd10nd , my goodness they have dam good lows and highs

They belt out the midrange and itís smooth as can be.

Iím startin to have a fettish for 1.75Ē Mylar domes (or the new poly stuff) 2Ē would be pretty sweet.

I hated the cd10nd for a long time , I talked a lot of trash about it, I concede.
For a larger diaphragm CD it has a shit ton of efficiency above 5k plays to 22k and plays to 500hz (700hz full power)
The size of it you wouldnít think itís a neo but it is and itís got one hell of a motor.

I think you would like it quite a bit , definitely needs a lot of eq up high to sound right as itís 10db louder at 5khz-20khz under 5k itís about 104db and above 5khz itís 114db
Very cool and nice sounding driver. Just big.

I blew one up , (Iíve blown one of all my CDs now tho

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 12-16-2017   #692
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

They fit on the mini horn bodies?
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Old 12-17-2017   #693
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
They fit on the mini horn bodies?
With a little sanding. Yes

Or a little gasket tape for a imperfect mount.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 12-18-2017   #694
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Grosso Iíve decided you need an avatar, or profile pic how about a pic of a horn

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 12-18-2017   #695
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
I fired up the cd10nd , my goodness they have dam good lows and highs

They belt out the midrange and itís smooth as can be.

Iím startin to have a fettish for 1.75Ē Mylar domes (or the new poly stuff) 2Ē would be pretty sweet.

I hated the cd10nd for a long time , I talked a lot of trash about it, I concede.
For a larger diaphragm CD it has a shit ton of efficiency above 5k plays to 22k and plays to 500hz (700hz full power)
The size of it you wouldnít think itís a neo but it is and itís got one hell of a motor.

I think you would like it quite a bit , definitely needs a lot of eq up high to sound right as itís 10db louder at 5khz-20khz under 5k itís about 104db and above 5khz itís 114db
Very cool and nice sounding driver. Just big.

I blew one up , (Iíve blown one of all my CDs now tho
Looks nice yeah, something similar to my hf108r but maybe even better on midranges.
Had to sand a bit my minis to fit them, like 4/5mm in the corner, good that they have enough material.

But now I play them higher and higher, in fact I wonder if I should try one of the other sfaital that have better highs since I donít need much mids.
Iíd imagine itís more about the angle of the plug to match the throat than the driver itself.
108 is 31 degrees and they work very well, but curious about 15/20 degrees.
On the full I had a very smooth transition by sanding, here with the minis itís not as good though.

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Old 12-18-2017   #696
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Grosso Iíve decided you need an avatar, or profile pic how about a pic of a horn
Got the perfect one!

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Old 12-19-2017   #697
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Must it be a horn? How low do you need the HF solution to play? What efficiency matches best with your mid?

I could recommend some HF drivers with good sensitivity.

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Old 12-19-2017   #698
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

For example....

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...m-motor-black/

The Satori TW29RN has excellent, smooth response, a 700hz FS and is very sensitive at 96db.



For tweeters that have more controlled directivity:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...ring-radiator/

The Scanspeak Discovery dual ring radiator has nice response, is 92db efficient and has a low 440hz FS.
The Peerless XT25 double magnet is similar, with a little higher sensitivity.

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Old 12-19-2017   #699
 
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Thx Captainobvious!

Yes I'm already on this path for the highs, either dome tweeters or planars.
The mids are Audax PR17 and good for 96/97db, maybe even more in the car.
Here are the two I selected so far: the Audax TW034 and the hivi rt2 pro.
Audax is less sensitive but beefy, and works perfectly in the waveguide.

Audax:
(0/30/60 here)

HIVI:
(very high sensitivity)


But I still have a few to try, like a pair of HD13D37R (very similar but with a bigger back chamber, so should go even lower cleanly)


And the Wavecor TW030WA13:



that I wanted to try in my dash corners firing up (due to their quickly dropping off axis response)
They're less sensitive but so tiny and all plots look very good, maybe what I will lose on the stage would be ok compared to what I'd gain on stealth. (Test Bench)

I don't need super low but I appreciate flexibility for mounting, 1600/12db acoustic would be the lowest probably if on dash.
I have to correct what I said earlier in one post, the pr17 can play up to 3k without problem, maybe even higher.
I measured them more and couldn't find a big difference between off and on axis, except super off like near the door glass).
I think the door panel shape acts as a diffraction plug, there is a roundover that covers the upper part a bit like 10% of the cone, not sureÖ

The Satori TW29 you posted look very good.
Great sensitivity and much smaller, though a little less higher up than the Audax with their rising response.
I expect good power response from the Audax once firing the center of the cabin, and since I have the PR17 I like the idea to go full french drivers (even have some 10 to try in kicks one day but here I doubt they would do better than the Beymas).
I measured them quickly with only XO no EQ and spent some time listening, and I really liked them.
They work well with the waveguide, not sure a ring radiator would do the same.
They gave me a very similar stage than the horns, but wider and more refined.
I'm not sure of the weight of the psychoacoustics on all this, but they really disappeared during testing.





The scans I never really bothered due to their off axis response, but this one is interesting yes.
Though seem too deep for my dash mount, I'll measure.


But I'm chasing too many rabbits here, so for now I'm focused on finishing my amp rack.
My goal was to test mids and horns on the same classe A amp since it sounds so beautifully.
I tried few passive crossovers from PE but it didn't work well. Not too bad but not to what I want.
The 8 ohms drivers on a 8 or 4 ohms XO create a big underlap, while in the same time the horns fill it partially back with their higher sensitivity.
EQ and Dirac will fix a lot but I want a good starting base.
I still needed more flexibility so I got one Focal crossblock that I wanted to test for a while.
This thing is a masterpiece, really beefy and well made, clearly a keeper.
But for the same reasons, it was designed for 4 ohms or lower drivers, I really wasn't sure it would do well, but apparently the range of settings is pretty wide, so it can even work with 8 ohms drivers!
Here a quick test of extreme settings, I'm now sure I can get something of it




So once the rack is done, I'll study the tweeter things again.
Will keep the horns installed so I could quickly compare both with presets.
But the tweeter that big with a waveguide will need some good work on the pillars.
Well basically I'll have fun for 6 months


Last edited by Elgrosso; 12-19-2017 at 08:38 PM..
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Old 12-19-2017   #700
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Default Re: Jaguar XKR, Jbl, Audiofrog, Acoustic Elegance & iphone source.

Well I guess my question is, why do you need the waveguide?

The Satori model is fantastic. I owned a pair and I preferred them over the Scanspeak Revelator 7100. I currently run a set of the Satori Beryllium TW29BN but that TW29RN is pretty excellent. It most certainly does not lack detail in the upper end.

-Steve

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