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Old 06-08-2018   #101
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Well, congrats on the job-front at least, kudos for that !

Still following to see how the Miata audio project plays-out ...

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Old 06-08-2018   #102
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Thanks! While it is exactly where I wanted this job to go, I wasn't expecting the promotion at all. I never mentioned wanting a promotion, and the position was never advertised for, but one day I got a phone call asking if I wanted it. Kinda cool for it to happen that way!

I'm still not sure if I should pull the amp and send it in, or just live with knowing something is wrong with it, and work around that. If I could just swing by a shop and swap the amp out I would.

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Old 06-08-2018   #103
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

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Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
....I'm still not sure if I should pull the amp and send it in, or just live with knowing something is wrong with it, and work around that. If I could just swing by a shop and swap the amp out I would.
Only you know best and the full significance of the issue, but I'll offer the observation that one reason the project has been fun to follow is your apparent low tolerance for compromise .....


As far as the job thing ... good employers recognize and reward valuable assets without the need for 'solicitation' .... good on them and good on you, sounds like you're among the lucky that have a truly great job situation, earned I'm sure, so 'cheers again'

(..... think maybe that 'low-tolerance for compromise' attitude carries over to the job and is appreciated there, eh?)


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Old 06-08-2018   #104
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

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Originally Posted by FordEscape View Post

(..... think maybe that 'low-tolerance for compromise' attitude carries over to the job and is appreciated there, eh?)
You wouldn't be wrong. And when it came to replacing myself on the tour, I picked someone who would actually be better at it than me.

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Old 06-09-2018   #105
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Today was a little bit of a struggle. A couple weeks ago my laptop died and I had to replace it. I had a recent Time Machine backup of MacOS, so I was up and running quickly. The bummer is that Time Machine doesnít back up Bootcamp installations. I donít keep any data on the Bootcamp partition, but I did have to install Windows from scratch, and I totally forgot to do that while I was traveling because I have a work laptop with Windows on it.

So today I went to fire up my APL software to discover that I still needed to install Windows. No problem, I fired up Bootcamp and went to work. Then Bootcamp failed when partitioning the drive. To fix this I wiped the whole computer clean, reinstalled MacOS and restored my most recent Time Machine backup. I was then able to install Windows without a problem, then boot the Windows partition up from Fusion. I installed all the Matlab and .Net frameworks needed for the APL software, then went to install the APL Drivers and ran into this error:



GrrrrÖ

My personal Windows 8 computer still works fine, so Iíll use that to connect to the APL1 until I can resolve this issue.

Finally this afternoon I was done futzing around with software and was able to do some tuning. I started by bumping the mid/tweet crossover down to 1600, and reset the EQís in the amp. I then started tuning from scratch by using APL TDA to set TA. It was HOT as hell in the car, so I had to keep it running with the A/C on full blast just to keep the computer from overheating. I turned the HVAC off, did a sweep, then turned it back on again. You can see the engine running in the TDA plots, here they are after setting TA:

Left:


Right:


Both:


The highpass on the mids is set at 50Hz, so ignore everything below that. There is some weirdness going on around the mid/tweet crossover on the left side, I wonder if I can clean that up with allpass filters? I donít know enough about allpass filter to know. You can see some wicked reflections on both sides over 10k. The combined Plot looks ok, but I suspect I can get the left-to-right a little better.

When I played some music the center is just a touch to the left side of the car, but otherwise solid as rock, and just below eye level. Not bad for zero EQ.

I then jumped over to REW and did a couple quick measurements of the individual speakers:



I did some quick tuning using the filters REW recommended, then remeasured:



There are three dips on the right side that are interesting, 330hz, 590Hz, and 1315Hz. The mids and tweets seem to mate up really well without any dips at the X-over point. Overall, both sides seem to sum up pretty well without any major issues. Iíll tune with APL Workshop tomorrow and see what I get.

I have some more door treatments on the way, Iím curious to see how they'll affect the frequency response. At the moment, with the volume all the way up, there isnít any noise from the doors. You also donít feel too much vibration when resting your arm on the door arm rest.

Overall, it sounds pretty good, no complaints at all. I'm not gonna spend too much time listening until after tuning with Workshop.

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Old 06-10-2018   #106
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

I did some tuning with APL today. First a couple graphs, left side before and after:





And right before and after:





One of my favorite parts of tuning with the APL is when you send the files to the unit. With no pauses, clicks, or defects in the sound, the new tune just snaps into place, and instantly sounds so much better. I was listening to folding Money by Radney Foster when I uploaded the files and it just came to life. I went for a drive and went through some songs, Another One Bites the Dust has great impact. I Will Rise Up by Lyle Lovett easily plays wider than the car and has some fantastic presence. Bartender by DMB is quite lively, as is St. nLouis Woman by Peter Cincotti. Donít Do It by Underpaid Packy uses a bass guitar as the foundation of the song, and itís very well composed, it plays cleanly with no breakup. And when playing Regulate you wouldnít know there arenít subs in the car, and the doors donít rattle!

Iím really gonna enjoy this!

Itís clear in the graphs that the right side is a little lower than the left, but itís very hard to hear it in the car.

If I can get the APL drivers to install on my MBP, I can use APL C5 to stack a couple more filters on top of the current ones to smooth it out a little more.

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Old 06-10-2018   #107
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

I spent a bunch of time trying everything I could to get the APL drivers to install in Windows 10 with no luck. I fired up C5 and poked around a bit and feel pretty comfortable with it. One of the fun things is the better look at the filters Workshop generates. here are some examples.

This is the left side after one pass with Workshop:


This is the filter generated on the second pass:


Once I get C5 working correctly, I can stack these filters(up to 3) so it gets progressively better each time.

In a separate window you can see how the filters combine. You can also see the effects of the crossovers, and the filters available inside of C5, kinda neat.

I still have a few questions, but I think I'll ask them in Hanatsu's APL1012 review thread.

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Old 06-11-2018   #108
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Judging by your graphs of the before (in post 106), it appears that you could adjust your gain levels of the drivers a bit more before running the APL correction so it doesn't have to have such a drastic amount of boost/cut to do. Specifically, the output level of the mids are much lower in the 100hz-600hz area than the output level of the tweeters.



Congrats on the new position! That's outstanding news.


Do you have or are you considering an apl1012? I'd really like to play around with one.



Regarding stacking of filters using C5- I don't have any experience using that software. I need to look around in it some more. Are you using this to create the filters for your APL1 instead of Workshop?






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Old 06-11-2018   #109
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Well, I actually did that on purpose, and this is why:



This is a graph from earlier in the thread. As you can see, Workshop gave up around 6k because it was limited to 6db of boost. I bumped the boost limit to 10db and got it to extend further, but still not to 20k. This is why:



So I figured if I ran the tweeters hot and let Workshop tame it, it would run all the way out to 20k without having to boost at the high end. And it worked! Admittedly I went a little too far, but thatís easy to change at this point. The rest of my new door treatment stuff gets in this week, and Iíll retune from scratch once I install it, and then Iíll cut the gain on the tweeters by 3-5 db and see if Workshop is still happy with that.

Iíll eventually get an APL1012 for my Bronco. Iím waiting until I place my order for three of the rackmount 1012ís for my home theater. Iím doing a fully active 3-way(all SI drivers) 5.2 setup, and three 1012ís with a MiniDSP 10x10 to combine and distribute the sub outputs seems like a killer setup. Crude drawing:



C5 is made specifically for the APL1012 processor, and because the 1012 is just bunch of APL1ís in a single unit, C5 also works on the APL1. It takes the place of APL Config and has more features, here is the Main page:



As you setup your crossovers, unit 1 is your lowest frequency output and they get higher as you go up. To stack filters, go through your normal process in Workshop, then import those files to C5 in EQ 1 for that channel. Then send the filters to the unit, remeasure, and import your new correction files to EQ2. Rinse and repeat up to 3 sets of filters. If you import a filter to Unit 1 and check the ďas MasterĒ box, it will be applied to all the output. But thereís more!



This is the PEQ page. There are some cool things here, for starters, notice that the units are listed as 1-5, plus M for Master. As far as I can tell (Raimonds, correct me if Iím wrong) you have up to 30 bands of PEQ available per output, plus the Master. You can apply these before you ever run Workshop! Just hop back to the Main page to apply the filters and send them to the unit(s) before generating your first files with Workshop.



This is the crossover tab. Itís mostly straight forward, but there are a few things I need clarification on. If you donít want a linear phase crossover you can use a LR4 or LR8 and apply Group Delay correction to it separately. A VERY important thing: The crossovers are NOT applied until you check the crossover boxes on the Main page!



Here you can see what your final filters look like for each output.



And lastly, there isnít much on the Settings Page.

This morning I installed the 32 bit version of C5 on my Windows 8 computer and it works with the same license from the 64 bit version on Windows 10. I was able to apply the first stacked filter and it made an an improvement in the overall sound, as well as boosted the right side to better match the output of the left side. The center image became more focussed and the stage is a bit higher now. The drive into my first day at the office was quite enjoyable!

Once I finish the door treatments Iíll start from scratch, using Workshop and C5 to figure out the first PEQís to apply in the XVi. Then Iíll use the PEQís in C5 to add onto that before applying any filters from Workshop.

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Old 06-11-2018   #110
 
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Wow thx for the steps LumbermanSVO,
I see a load button for the peqs, itís the common format on txt files?
30peqs... thatís interesting

Youíre using the gb15 right? How did you ďpaintĒ with the mic, did you come close to them and used the near field ďtechniqueĒ to readjust later with a filter? (Donít remember the exact name and details, but the way to reduce the weight of the on axis/close drivers on the average, explained in the old pdf).
I remember I had to try different things when I had them on dash or high in doors, either manually or through filters.

And congrats for the job!

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Old 06-11-2018   #111
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

You can save and load .peqs files, but I don't have any other software to generate these files. When you open a .peqs file in Textedit, it is some sort of Matlab file that a silly mortal can't read. It appears that a .peqs file will save each individual filter you've built in that box. When you load it, it'll fill out each line automagically.

You can also save as a text file, but you can't load them in the same area. However, if you look at the box below that, "Input as curves" you see that there are 5 blank lines. If you check a box next to a blank line you'll get a prompt to load a .dat file. I have no idea what a .dat file is, or how to generate one, but I poked around, and it will let you load a .txt file instead.

So what does that mean? It looks like you can go to town with the PEQ's and when you run out, save them as a .txt that combines all the existing PEQ's into a single file. Then you can load that .txt file in the lower box, and start fresh in the upper box. And it looks like you can do that five times! If you do the math, that's 150 PEQ's you can play with on each output, plus 150 on each input. And that's before you ever open Workshop! Holy moly Batman!

Raimonds, am I right?

As for painting, I just followed the standard procedure. I haven't had the need to combine measurements yet. It sounds damn good at the moment so I'm just gonna stick to what works.

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Old 06-12-2018   #112
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Thanks, very helpful!


So to make the process more clear for me...


1. I know with the APL1 we measured each *side* independently. Do you measure each driver independently with Workshop to import into C5 now for use with APL1012? I'm assuming that is how you would need to do it since we are then applying crossovers in C5 to that raw measurement.



2. Pretty cool that C5 can be used to generate the FIR to send to APL1 since it has so much more capability! How does this establish a connection to the APL1? In the Config software, there is actually a drop-down bar to connect to the physical unit prior to uploading any FIR filters and you also get a visual of which preset is currently active. How do you connect and is that info still shown?

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Old 06-12-2018   #113
 
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
You can save and load .peqs files, but I don't have any other software to generate these files. When you open a .peqs file in Textedit, it is some sort of Matlab file that a silly mortal can't read. It appears that a .peqs file will save each individual filter you've built in that box. When you load it, it'll fill out each line automagically.

You can also save as a text file, but you can't load them in the same area. However, if you look at the box below that, "Input as curves" you see that there are 5 blank lines. If you check a box next to a blank line you'll get a prompt to load a .dat file. I have no idea what a .dat file is, or how to generate one, but I poked around, and it will let you load a .txt file instead.

So what does that mean? It looks like you can go to town with the PEQ's and when you run out, save them as a .txt that combines all the existing PEQ's into a single file. Then you can load that .txt file in the lower box, and start fresh in the upper box. And it looks like you can do that five times! If you do the math, that's 150 PEQ's you can play with on each output, plus 150 on each input. And that's before you ever open Workshop! Holy moly Batman!

Raimonds, am I right?

As for painting, I just followed the standard procedure. I haven't had the need to combine measurements yet. It sounds damn good at the moment so I'm just gonna stick to what works.
I wonder if itís compatible with rew/minidsp biquads.

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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainobvious View Post
Thanks, very helpful!


So to make the process more clear for me...


1. I know with the APL1 we measured each *side* independently. Do you measure each driver independently with Workshop to import into C5 now for use with APL1012? I'm assuming that is how you would need to do it since we are then applying crossovers in C5 to that raw measurement.



2. Pretty cool that C5 can be used to generate the FIR to send to APL1 since it has so much more capability! How does this establish a connection to the APL1? In the Config software, there is actually a drop-down bar to connect to the physical unit prior to uploading any FIR filters and you also get a visual of which preset is currently active. How do you connect and is that info still shown?
1: I think the correct answer is, kinda. I don't have a 1012 yet, so I'm making an informed guess about the process. I believe you'll measure with measure each output individually at least once. From there you'll process the measurements with Workshop, dump the files into C5, sends to the unit(s). From there you can measure each driver individually, or measure the whole side at once, and apply filters accordingly.

2: So far I haven't tried uploading directly from C5 to the APL1. I'm not sure what "Unit" a single APL1 is. When you click "send" it saves your .fir file to a folder you specify at the top of the screen. So far I've just been using APL Config to send the files to the unit.

I do have two APL1 units, if I can dig up a portable USB hub, I'll plug them both into the computer at the same time and see how C5 reacts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
I wonder if itís compatible with rew/minidsp biquads.
The file .txt types look way different. The ones generated by C5 just list frequency and a value(amplitude?). The Biquad files generated by REW list a filter number, and a long string of numbers. The files are nothing like each other

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Old 06-13-2018   #115
 
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
...

The file .txt types look way different. The ones generated by C5 just list frequency and a value(amplitude?). The Biquad files generated by REW list a filter number, and a long string of numbers. The files are nothing like each other
So this file is more a GEQ than PEQ if thereís no Q informations?
I saw different versions for calculating the Q but I think the biquad format is always the same (not sure though).
Ex:
biquad1,
b0=0.9992659588490702,
b1=-1.9842793144734525,
b2=0.9883921462989482,
a1=1.9842793144734525,
a2=-0.9876581051480183,

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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

This is a .peqs file:


This is a .txt file:


Both are the same filter.

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2010 Miata Build
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Old 06-13-2018   #117
 
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Ok so completely different. Didnít even know .peq existed.

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Old 06-13-2018   #118
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Yeah, not even remotely close to the same as a Biquad!

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Old 06-13-2018   #119
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

BTW, I there is an interesting thing going on. Even though all my speakers are in the front of the doors, the bass still sounds like it's coming from the rear of the car. Anyone have any idea why?

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Old 06-14-2018   #120
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
BTW, I there is an interesting thing going on. Even though all my speakers are in the front of the doors, the bass still sounds like it's coming from the rear of the car. Anyone have any idea why?


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Old 06-14-2018   #121
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

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That must be a VERY small woman!

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Old 07-06-2018   #122
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

I pulled the amp on the 4th to send it back to JL. Yesterday I put the amp in the car real quick to make sure I had saved the tune, and managed to scratch it in those few minutes, grrr.


This morning I was almost run over by some douche waffle in a pickup:
https://youtu.be/ouTPnIr04HI

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Old 07-06-2018   #123
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Ugg, I'd send that video and the license plate number to the local PD. That's nuts.

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Old 07-06-2018   #124
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

Yeah, I've see people run fresh red lights, but that dude missed it by a full 7 seconds. Asshat.

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Old 07-13-2018   #125
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Default Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

JL received the amp early this week, hopefully I hear something from them soon.

In the meantime, I've ordered a pair of ID8's and I got permission from the wood shop at work to use their tools. So soon I'll start mimicking bullyx2's sub box, as seen here: Soundwaves of Tampa, Florida (813) 849-1104 - Photo Gallery

Because I'll have dedicated subs handling the low end I'm also changing the mids, but not going smaller. I have a new pair of Steven Audio MB8-2's ready to go in the doors to replace the IDQ8's. These won't play as low as the IDQ's, but are more sensitive and play higher. So I should gain some output and make blending with the tweeters easier. You know, if they actually fit...

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