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Old 11-14-2018   #1
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Default Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

I just finished doing a different install on a Jeep Wrangler I acquired recently. Used some Kenwood under-seat "subwoofers" in each kickpanel in stereo as midbasses. Turned out pretty sweet. Cheap 5.25" infinity reference components in the dash that I actually really like with some eq. Used the old faithful Pioneer 80PRS to run the show.

Anyhow, I needed a new project and so purchased a commuter car for $500: a beat to hell Scion xB. Needs a heater core and the body is rough but it's mechanically sound and only has 130000 miles on it. For $500, as a commuter, it was a steal. Especially since half a $4 bottle of "stop-leak" seems to have stopped the heater core leaking. (I've used the stuff before and driven several thousand miles before selling the car without a reoccurring).

-------

I'm doing this one on a budget since it's a $500 car. The plan:

Pioneer 80PRS ($100, bought a cheapie and swapped the 80PRS from a car I've since sold)

Pioneer 100x4 amp ($130):
-Infinity reference 5.25 components in custom dash baffles (ON the dash, tweeters in the a pillars) from 200Hz and up ($60)
-Silver Flute 8" woofers in the doors, building 10-13 liter ported enclosures for them, tuned to a 60-70Hz f3, running 50-200Hz (free, I have them already)

Alpine PDX-600.1 (free, I have one already):
-Dayton Ultimax 10" sub in a fiberglass/mdf enclosure in the RR. I may build two enclosures, one to experiment with which will drive the materials cost up ($150 + materials)

I have several wiring kits that I can piece together to make things happen. Looking like the whole system should come in around $500 out-of-pocket after materials and the inevitable nick-nack purchases.
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Old 11-14-2018   #2
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

Wired up the headunit, running the rear channel outputs from the deck to the components and the front channels hooked to the existing/oem front door speakers which do decent midbass for 14 watts.

Built some baffles out of Ikea cutting boards (I buy them for like $1 and do so by the dozen). Routed a 4.5" hole and traced the existing tweeter grills as a template. These are mock-ups and will take some work to get pretty but after sealing them up in 0.5L foam enclosures and running some preliminary eq and time alignment, they image nicely on their own.

Unfortunately, the door speakers are receiving a full-range signal which has to change. I probably won't get to installing the 8s until after thanksgiving and will have to live with it for the time being. It sounds fine but the image is way muddy and pulls to the sides with deeper male vocals and guitar.
Those Silver Flutes will take some time too. I haven't seen anyone run 8s in a first gen xB door so it will probably take considerable shoehorning.

Here's the preliminary arrangement of the dash. I'm psyched to run such large woofers up so high but worry about beaming at higher volumes, when the amps get installed.



PS. Cruising the other build logs here always makes me feel inadequate. Me and my $500 Scion will still come and play though.

Last edited by Heterosapian; 11-14-2018 at 01:54 PM.. Reason: PS
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Old 11-16-2018   #3
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

Purchased the four channel amp on sale for $120. Score.

I'll load that in this weekend, and try to mount and wire the 8s over Thanksgiving weekend.

Driven off the headunit, running just the dash components, I have GREAT linear imaging. Vertical imaging running LEDR tests is pretty weak though, which I imagine is due to reflections of the mid woofers off of the windshield glass. Hopefully angling them a bit more on axis brings things up. Height only ever reaches the middle of the windshield though the "arch test" is pretty linear, if low.

Looking forward to the coming weeks. Hoping to have the midbass enclosures finished and the whole front stage set up by 2019. I'll have to wait for warmer weather before I start glassing the subwoofer enclosure though I may run a ghetto test box until then. We'll see.
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Old 11-16-2018   #4
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

I'm always interested in seeing another xB build. I'm curious though with the DEH-80PRS why you don't just stick with a two way setup? Run a competent 6"-7" mid in your doors along with a tweeter that can be crossed low and use the head unit to handle all of your active crossovers. Or even better, get a really solid 5.25" mid on the dash to pair with a tweeter and don't do anything in the doors.

With how badly Photobucket has screwed up the internet they will probably be hard to find, but there were several builds with 8s in the doors back in the old Scionlife and ClubxB days. I personally wouldn't recommend it. The tin can doors on the xB are notoriously difficult to get dead with sound treatment. There is a reason I don't run any drivers in my doors any more. Either way, make sure you have money in your budget to at least sound treat any areas you plan to place speakers.

Good luck with getting the build done, and keeping it on budget. If you are interested in other builds for reference, I and a few other have created build logs for xBs. Some of them might actually still have pictures. Thanks again, Photobucket.


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Old 11-16-2018   #5
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

Thanks for your response. I'll definitely dig deeper to try to find some xB builds with 8s in the doors. I've got enough deadener laying around to at least deaden the front doors. They're definitely tinny though, for sure.

I went with the three-way to try something different. I've never had a set-up with really strong midbass before. My last few builds have been active two-way set ups with large dynaudio tweeters crossed at 3000Hz, and 6-7" woofers in the door. They all sounded great - almost certainly better than this will - but it had gotten a bit formulaic and I was interested in trying something different.

I figure with a 5.25 on the dash, I've got plenty of range to cross at 200Hz without blowing anything up. I may end up stripping it all and running the Silver Flutes as mids and blowing the budget on a decent set of tweeters but, in the meantime, this will be a fun cheap experiment.

Thanks again, and long live the toasters!
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Old 11-16-2018   #6
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

I did some measuring and there's a crazy amount of space under the front seats. I'll probably build the silver flutes into ported enclosures under the seat rather than trying to glass the doors. Much simpler. If I were willing to lift the seats with some body pucks, I could fit an ultimax under each seat tuned to the low 30s!
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Old 11-16-2018   #7
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

rton20s has 10" subs under his front seats...just saying.

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Old 11-16-2018   #8
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

There is a little room for enclosures under the front seats.




When my wife also had a 1st gen, we had a single down firing 10 under the passenger seat.


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Old 11-16-2018   #9
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Yeah, this might get out of hand quickly. I can build some enclosures for pointsource drivers mounted about 30 degrees off axis on the dash. Big ones. Then a pair of tens under the front seats for 0-200Hz. That would be bananas and might have to happen. Damn you all and your good ideas!
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Old 11-16-2018   #10
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

Nice sub enclosures!

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Old 11-18-2018   #11
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Whoa. Yeah, the pictures didn’t load the other day. Those are some sick enclosures rton. I’m trying to decide if it’s worth lifting the seats and going ported or just building a pair of sealed enclosures for underneath.

Ran to Home Depot this morning and picked up a 4” 45 degree pvc elbow. That will probably function as a transitional enclosure for the dash until the weather improves. Hoping to get one side set up today. I’ll post some pics of the ghettoness when I get something together worth seeing.
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Old 11-19-2018   #12
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Advice needed: does anyone have experience with point source drivers in a vehicle? I’ve got about 2 liters in these pods. Trying to decide between a 5 inch full range driver or a two way on the dash. I think the two way would be a better fit as it would allow me to run down to 100 Hz on the dash, and give me more control but I like the simplicity of just four drivers (no silver flutes, just running two subs sealed under the seats).

In the full range set up, the subs would be handling the midbass as well and the pods being about 30 degrees off axis might make for some beaming and localization.

Anyway, what are your thoughts? Rton20s, it looks like I might take your initial advise after all and run a nicer two way on the dash.

Thanks.
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Old 11-19-2018   #13
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

rton20s has 5.25" drivers on his dash in pods that were originally build for a 5.25" point source...just saying.

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Old 11-19-2018   #14
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

I think you can make either work out. With a separate mid and tweeter, you advantage is likely going to be the ability to play the mid lower and gain some Width through sail mounted tweeters. The advantages to a point source, are simplicity of install and potentially better coherence.

This is a photo collage of the progression on my install. Pods with 3s, to larger pods with 3s, and finally my current setup with 5.25 mids in the larger pods. The 1 tweeters in the sails have been consistent throughout.


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Old 11-19-2018   #15
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

Thanks for the replies.

You've obviously had success with your xB having the tweeters in the sail panels. Most of the tweeters I'm considering are rather large though. I'll probably velcro them around and play with position and aiming but, in general, did you find mounting them in the sails resulted in a wider stage, particularly in the xB? I'm not against some big, ugly-chunky sail panels if that's what it takes (my pvc mid-pods are going to be legit futuristic ugly).

Do those pods vent into the dash or are they sealed? I'm looking to probably run mine sealed as I'm close to the volume required for flat response, unless you derived some benefit from venting into the dash.

PS. It looks like I'm slowly copying your install

Last edited by Heterosapian; 11-19-2018 at 11:57 AM..
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Old 11-19-2018   #16
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

Ive found that the mids on the dash and the tweeters on the sails have struck a pretty good balance between depth and width. My pods are open to the dash, but I have stuffed the dash with denim insulation.


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Old 11-19-2018   #17
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Finished one speaker pod tonight. Purchasing the drivers this weekend so they won’t be installed and running for a while but figured I’d give you all some ugliness to look at. Measure 1.7 liters before driver displacement and stuffing. Cost $16 for both pods including terminal cups and cutting board material.

The drivers would ideally be housed in 2.4 liter enclosures. Stuffing should get me half way there. 2 liters models to a 107 Hz f3. They’re down 4db at 100, where I plan to cross them and should never exceed xmax even with 100+ watts.
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Old 11-20-2018   #18
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I like what I’m seeing. I’ve decided to go all in and port the two subwoofer enclosures. Possibly run them in stereo. The software on my phone doesn’t allow me to run filters but it looks like crossing the mids at 100-125 and the sub about 80 should net some epic results.
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Old 11-20-2018   #19
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Instead of being productive at work (hey, it’s a holiday week) I drew up a schematic and cut list for the sub enclosures.

Slot port measuring 3.5x2x19. Net internal dimensions minus port and driver measures a little over 0.7 cubic feet. I’m relying on stuffing to lower the fb here as well. If I can get the effective net volume to 0.9 it makes for a 30 hz fb, 27 f3 and 3db ripple at 37 hz. Should slam and get low. No need to run a subsonic filter as they shouldn’t touch xmax until like 15 hz. If I ever compete I’ll have to eq that down big time.

Should pick up materials tomorrow and have at least one enclosure roughed out on Monday. In before “why not sealed?”: Because I like to party.
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Old 11-21-2018   #20
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Feel the ghettoness. 2” pvc end caps will soon become 2” tweeter pods for the sail panels. PVC everywhere! Pretty damn on axis. This should be good.

Playing with the pods and making cuts for the subwoofer enclosures today.
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Old 11-21-2018   #21
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

It may be too late now, but there is very little reason to put those mids on axis. If those are 5.25", they won't beam until about 2,600hz, probably higher when you consider the actual size of the speaker. The response will be identical on and off axis up to that point, and depending on where you cross your tweeter you'll have very little, if any frequency range that beaming will affect. It would look 1,000 times nicer, and sound the same if you just flush mount them on the dash.
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Old 11-21-2018   #22
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Never too late. Any input is appreciated.

I figure the pods are legit enclosures that will allow me to cross lower while running decent power to them. Admitedly, I conceived of them when I was leaning towards point source drivers where beaming was an issue, and I won’t frequently play them loud enough to take advantage of the enclosures, but I don’t mind how they look and it’s a fun project. I can always go back to the dash if they’re a bother. Besides, my sister already named my car the ‘SUBmarine’ on account of the dash periscopes.
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Made a million cuts and a bunch of mdf dust today. Have everything lined up to assemble the subwoofer enclosures on Monday.
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Old 11-21-2018   #23
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

I dont suppose theres enough room under the speaker to put all that PVC inside the dash?
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Old 11-21-2018   #24
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Default Re: Wedging equipment into an 06 Scion xB

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
It may be too late now, but there is very little reason to put those mids on axis. If those are 5.25", they won't beam until about 2,600hz, probably higher when you consider the actual size of the speaker. The response will be identical on and off axis up to that point, and depending on where you cross your tweeter you'll have very little, if any frequency range that beaming will affect. It would look 1,000 times nicer, and sound the same if you just flush mount them on the dash.
^^^All of this.^^^

I believe all of the Harman car audio mids are designed to be used in an "IB" configuration. The assumption is that they will be mounted in a door for most applications. I don't think the "pods" are going to make much of a difference.

I would personally try and flush the 5.25" in the dash and work to get the tweeters on axis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx1136 View Post
I dont suppose theres enough room under the speaker to put all that PVC inside the dash?
It has been a while since I've looked, but I do not believe there is room under the dash for the pods.


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Old 11-21-2018   #25
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Default

I’m familiar with where things beam. There’s about 0.4 liters IF you glasses the cavities in the dash, assuming you’re keeping your vents. That models like shit. I’m ok with IB except that I exceed xmax much below 200hz. I want to cross lower.
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