SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES - Page 2 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

View Poll Results: Do smaller companies make better products than mainstream companies?
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Old 04-16-2013   #26
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkZ View Post
Do smaller audio companies have better websites than mainstream companies?
Not if you're looking at something like Arc's current site.

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Old 04-16-2013   #27
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

Dynaudio designs/builds quality products. Manley Labs designs/builds quality products. JL Audio designs/builds quality products. I own/have used products from all three and have been nothing but happy. One is a medium sized company, one is small company and one is a large company. I think doing your own research and building your own products shows a love for what you are doing and a commitment to your "brand". I think those two things are more important than the actual size of the company.
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Old 04-16-2013   #28
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

The only determining factors in the quality of products is 1) skill, 2) willingness to apply the skill without cutting corners, 3) obtaining high quality materials and 4) quality tools for manufacturing.

It doesn't matter if you are big or small.

Frankly larger companies have the advantage of resources that smaller companies don't have provided they are willing to use those resources properly (ie the items above). Smaller companies have the advantage of flexibility and speedy changes that larger companies don't always have.

But again at the end of the day it's all about skill and resources.

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Old 04-16-2013   #29
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

The perceived problem with large companies with extensive product lines comes when they introduce entry-level products in addition to their high quality product line. People get all butthurt about it. "No way, man, Alpine SUCKS because I owned a cheap $50 speaker they made in 2003 and it sounded terrible!" Therefore, everything that company makes must be garbage.

That poor excuse for logic isn't a whole lot different from saying black people suck because you were robbed by a black guy once back in 1991.

Knowing an entire company's product line is hard work. Especially big companies. Especially big companies who have been around for a million years. People are inherently lazy and prideful, so they stereotype because they want to feel more knowledgeable about a particular product than they actually are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
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Old 04-16-2013   #30
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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Originally Posted by msmith View Post
The quality of our products has improved as we became a bigger company. More resources give us the ability to invest in better production equipment, better tooling, more research and better quality procedures. The product we built today is the best we have ever built.

Here's are a few photo galleries that show what I'm talking about...
JL Audio

I tend to place more trust in a speaker assembled in a high-tech facility than in some "hand-made" operation where adhesives are applied to speakers with ketchup squeeze bottles.
I do have to say that the JL woofer building facility is pretty awesome.

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Old 04-16-2013   #31
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
Please fix your website. Your link takes me to the Canadian website. The Canadian website has none of tutorials the US site has. I also can't see any of the pictures you are talking about.
Your Canadian IP address is causing that to occur. All you have to do is go to the bottom of the page where it says "Select Country" and switch from the Canadian to the US site with the little toggle thingy on the right.

Sorry for the hassle.
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Old 04-16-2013   #32
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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I do have to say that the JL woofer building facility is pretty awesome.
Yes it is!!!
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Old 04-16-2013   #33
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkZ View Post
The perceived problem with large companies with extensive product lines comes when they introduce entry-level products in addition to their high quality product line. People get all butthurt about it. "No way, man, Alpine SUCKS because I owned a cheap $50 speaker they made in 2003 and it sounded terrible!" Therefore, everything that company makes must be garbage.

That poor excuse for logic isn't a whole lot different from saying black people suck because you were robbed by a black guy once back in 1991.

Knowing an entire company's product line is hard work. Especially big companies. Especially big companies who have been around for a million years. People are inherently lazy and prideful, so they stereotype because they want to feel more knowledgeable about a particular product than they actually are.
I think a secondary issue related to that is scale. Pulling #'s out of the air, Large Brand A might sell 100 amps for every 1 amp Small Brand B sells. If they each have 1% failure rate, Brand A has 100x more amps failing than Brand B. But because Brand A has 100x the amount of amp failures they sound like a less reliable product simply because more products have failed. And because more products have failed more people have heard about Brand A's amps failing compared to Brand B even though their reliability rate is exactly the same.
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Old 04-16-2013   #34
 
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

when reading this question, i think of the canadian companies, and the NRC. If a company aready has access to research and, can produce a product that they can profit from, so that the can build their own anechoic chamber to build in house, yes
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Old 04-16-2013   #35
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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Yes it is!!!


I wouldn't know. I was supposed to be in the tour last November and it was cancelled.

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Old 04-16-2013   #36
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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Also depends on if the small companies actually make their own product, with their own r&d or if they buy from a build house and slap their label on it.
I agree with that. Sundown, RD, Sound Qubed, and others have amps that look the same on the inside. They just have a different heatsink.
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Old 04-16-2013   #37
 
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

I can't say I have an opinion one way or the other whether or not bigger companies have better or worse QC than others. I feel 100% confident when buying JL subs that they will work flawlessly for a decade if I don't get bored sooner. Still thinking about the pair of 13W7s IB but waiting to see if there's a v2 anytime soon.

Then you have Dynaudio which I guess is a small to medium sized company?? Their TS parameters always have the least amount of variance from speaker to speaker and by a significant margin and you never hear of failures. I think it really depends more on the focus of the company than the size of the company. Size doesn't matter!
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Old 04-16-2013   #38
 
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post
Please fix your website. Your link takes me to the Canadian website. The Canadian website has none of tutorials the US site has. I also can't see any of the pictures you are talking about.
I have no issue when I type in JL Audio.com it takes me to the us site. .ca takes me to the Canuck site. Not sure what your issue is.
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Old 04-17-2013   #39
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Default

His issue has been resolved. Repeatedly.

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Old 04-17-2013   #40
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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Originally Posted by BuickGN View Post
Then you have Dynaudio which I guess is a small to medium sized company??
I would have thought large. They have all that OEM business too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
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Old 04-17-2013   #41
 
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

True. I wonder if all of the OEM stuff is hand made as well. I can't imagine using people to produce speakers in that volume.
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Old 04-17-2013   #42
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

ultimately, and with rare exception, you get what you pay for. it's not always proportional to the price, but i've found this to be true on average.

also, when you're in the car audio hobby, you end up using so many different products in the search for perfect sound that you'll eventually end up having tried the entire spectrum at some point.

personally, i like to try gear that most people won't simply because of the lack of brand recognition! while it's getting harder for dayton to fly under the radar, they do a really good job of delivering quality and very affordable price points; and there are other brands that do this as well, just cruise p.e. or madisound.

if we're talking purely electronics, i'd prefer to stick with the big boys who've been doing this for a long time.

at the end of the day, though, if you have a budget and you ask the people here on the forum for system suggestions they will more often than not give you the best 'bang for your buck' ideas

.....unless you're interested in critical mass

changes coming....
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Old 04-17-2013   #43
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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Originally Posted by brett View Post
ultimately, and with rare exception, you get what you pay for. it's not always proportional to the price, but i've found this to be true on average.
I've found this to be totally untrue in audio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
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Old 04-17-2013   #44
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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I've found this to be totally untrue in audio.
interesting, care to explain?

changes coming....
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Old 04-17-2013   #45
 
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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interesting, care to explain?
I mostly agree with you. While its not always the case, generally you get what you pay for. Double the price may not equal double the performance but there's usually an improvement.
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Old 04-17-2013   #46
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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Originally Posted by brett View Post
interesting, care to explain?
The disparity in prices of various equipment can be huge, and the performance is almost completely uncorrelated with the price, IMO. Especially in home audio, where you're typically paying for the aesthetic more than the actual performance.

There are several extreme examples of this. For example, a loudspeaker system costing 100x the sum of its parts. Literally.

Also, it's not uncommon to see the most expensive equipment also be yesterday's technology, with all its inherent disadvantages and limitations.

You even talked about Dayton in your last post, which is a good example of a company that has a reasonably constructed product line for pennies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
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Old 04-18-2013   #47
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

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I mostly agree with you. While its not always the case, generally you get what you pay for. Double the price may not equal double the performance but there's usually an improvement.

that's the reason i almost always buy used gear; you can get killer deals on hi-end stuff, be it small or mainstream companies. plus, i think thats a good place to see how well gear holds up from both ends of the spectrum.

changes coming....
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Old 04-18-2013   #48
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

What is considered a small company? Are you just considering the front office or the build house attached to said company?

Larger companies do have a larger budget...now it depends on how they are spending that budget as to if the performance is better in the end. If the company is like JL, then I would agree...you see the innovations and performance...though as much as JL has grown, I would consider them a middle sized company. Then you have a really large company like Pioneer who has TAD under it's wings...and they push the envelope. Then you have a small company like Sundown who uses Klippel testing on their drivers...and you get performance from them.

I guess it just depends on who and what you are talking about. This is a very open ended question with a metric ass ton of "what ifs."
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Old 04-22-2013   #49
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

From a UK enthusiasts POV

I don't think there's much of a debate.



Would I choose Sony XPlod sub over a Sundown E-10 sub? No I wouldn't!

Would I choose a pair of JVC speakers over a pair of DLS? No!

Would I buy a brand new Pioneer 4 channel amp or a used Genesis Profile 4 from ebay? "Confirm your bid"!!


There are some huge companies with huge money to throw at R&D ... doesn't mean they're any good!

In car audio my default companies would be JL Audio and Alpine .. although I've owned 3 Alpine amps and never got on with them. However I'm not keen on the low end JL speakers .. so swings and roundabouts!


SQ

Alpine
Morel
HAT
Audison
Hertz
Focal
Rainbow
Diamond
CDT
Genesis - Amps
DLS
Mosconi
Seas Lotus
Dynaudio
Brax
Sinfoni
Pheonix Gold
Zapco
Tru
Helix
Mcintosh - I've help fit a £180,000 McIntosh Home Audio system


Crept into car audio

Dayton
Seas
Vifa
Peerless


SPL

Digital Designs
Sundown
Ground Zero
Gladen
AudioSystem
B2 Audio
Addictive Audio
Pierce Audio Products Inc.
AD Designs
Skar Audio
SSA


Are you seriously telling me, you would choose a pair of Sony Xplod speakers, subs or a amp over the likes of these? Do me a favour!!


However, even with that said, I don't care if the magnets are made from some metal from outer space, or if the cones are made from Supermans underpants, what I want to know is; how does it sound?
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Old 04-22-2013   #50
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Default Re: SMALLER AUDIO COMPANIES MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS THAN MAINSTREAM COMPANIES

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainscarlett View Post
Are you seriously telling me, you would choose a pair of Sony Xplod speakers, subs or a amp over the likes of these? Do me a favour!!
You spelled favor wrong.

Where do you rank the Sony ES line, the Alpine F1 line, the Kenwood PS series, the Pioneer DEH880 which is owned by like half the people here, or the JL w7 subwoofer?

What about some of the classic JBL speakers that are considered by many to be some of the best made in their class? JBL being owned, of course, by Harman International...

You're biasing the sample which is skewing your results. If you considered ALL of the big companies' offerings, instead of just the ones you see at department stores, you'd realize that big companies often make very high quality products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
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