OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care? - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

 
 
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Old 12-14-2012   #1
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Default OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

Our last batch of CCA 1/0 awg was close to 5250 strand count @ 12mm.
This made for a pretty burly 1/0G power cable.

This exceeded the awg standard and as a result we had to order larger 2ott ring terminals to fit the cable.

Our next batch of CCA and OFC is going to meet the AWG standard to spec, making it a smaller diameter product, but with a tighter wound wire twist, which means there is more copper in the jacket.

Do you guys care either way?
There is no difference in price on this due to the tighter wound twists, but I wanted to get a feel for what you guys care about when spending your money.

Input please?
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Old 12-14-2012   #2
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunner View Post
I feel better when the wire is dense, but still somewhat flexible, like welding wire. I don't make too tight a bend normally, even if the wire is really flexible because I prefer not to put the jacket in a stressed condition.

I like a weighty wire, there's this stuff from Raptor I got, supposed to be 1/0 and it might have 4 gauge worth of conductor in it.

So, the more copper, the heavier it is. If it's heavy and it's AWG standard dimension, it should meet specifications for current load and that's what I care about, along with being reliable. Strand size for good welding wire, also seems just right to me.

How high end is this wire striving to shoot for?

If we had an idea of where in the market, quality-wise, this is supposed to land, that would help.

top tier, you'd have to compete with some pretty nice stuff...
My goal is to match the quality of companies like IXOS or better.
I'd like to do an ultra high end, bad ass line of wire, cable and RCA's but the market is not there. I have never really be a fan of market driven products, but educating the masses as to why our products cost twice as much as all the rest is an uphill battle I am tired of fighting. I did that with Second Skin for years, and it drove me crazy.

Most people have Champagne taste with Blue Ribbon pockets (myself included). The ones that understand the value of a superior product will spend the money on it but those are few and far between. Not that they don't exist but when dealing with manufacturing companies, some times MOQ can be 500-1000 units to get a solid price. 1000 prices might take 6-12 months to sell. I find it best to rotate inventory every 60 days, max so the numbers are hard to justify until I know that the niche has enough demand.

That being said I don't want to put out a crap product line either. Most anyone can see through shoddy specs, and marketing hyperbole as well they should. I think the customers should hold the companies accountable for quality, but not hold them hostage for pricing. It is a conflicting view point and one that I have struggled with finding an answer for (short of being an OEM manufacturer that releases their own brand, and sells direct to the end user, there by skipping the branding company, the distributor and maybe even the retailer).

This is what I am doing with MyOatmeal.com. Rather than hiring a GMP co-packing company to make the product for us, we are building a commercial kitchen and doing all of the manufacturing ourselves, then selling to the end user. Our process, our brand, our market. Doing that in car audio would be nearly impossible without huge money, connections and industry knowledge.

I considered doing it with Second Skin a while back. building a small opperation with out own mixers and extruders, but those companies work on such small margins I would only save myself 15%, and would have to invest over $500k. Not worth it at the volume we were doing.

Anyhow. Thanks for your input.. Gives me something to think about.

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Old 12-14-2012   #3
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

Autosound season begins in 3 months. OFC spools should easily sell out. The CCA stuff, well not as quick.
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Old 12-14-2012   #4
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

Any word on Distribution Blocks?
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Old 12-15-2012   #5
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

Sadly the ones we had planned on making will not happen.
We are working on some tooling on some more, simple yet recognizable accessories that will do the job for the majority of our customers. The specialty items like the custom number we were working on are proving to be too expensive and hardly profitable.

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Old 12-15-2012   #6
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

I would be interested in 1/0 awg tinned ofc copper. Must be flexible and durable.
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Old 12-15-2012   #7
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

Here's the thing... when people shop for 1/0 (well, the guys I know and all the kids on your other forum), they look at comparison pics and cross section. Today's "car audio" wire is actually 2/0 sized (as evidenced by the comparison pic I'll put below). Necessary? No. And it's a PITA to get it into amp terminals. AND people are going to fuse according to 1/0 anyway. Usually 250 or 300A for "1/0" OFC. So, that extra size isn't helping anyone really.

But the thing is price point. If it's AWG 1/0, which is going to be smaller than what their buddy has, then the price should reflect it. I could honestly give a rat's ass about flexibility. I don't know why tying wire into a knot is so important to people. To me, strand count is a marketing ploy. I really, really like the braided wire like Hyperflex though.

Your prices are more than competitive now so stay on track there. Or cheaper? Maybe a hybrid like AT is doing wouldn't hurt. Kind of the best of both worlds.

At the end of the day, I hate buying wire. So price point is important to me. I mean, it's friggin wire. How much more expensive is your jacket compared to welding wire's? Why can I still get OFC welding cable cheaper than CA wire?

Anyway... here's that pic. 2/0 AWG welding cable on the left and fat ass KNU mixed in on the right.


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Old 12-15-2012   #8
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

I friend bought a kit that claimed it was 1/0 gauge.When I cut into it I found it to be about 8 gauge.
Anyway,I found that good copper wire will turn green after years and years but with rubbing alcohol and a wash rag can be cleaned up to almost new.The cheaper stuff will start to corrode and just fall apart.
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Old 12-15-2012   #9
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDGAF View Post
Here's the thing... when people shop for 1/0 (well, the guys I know and all the kids on your other forum), they look at comparison pics and cross section. Today's "car audio" wire is actually 2/0 sized (as evidenced by the comparison pic I'll put below). Necessary? No. And it's a PITA to get it into amp terminals. AND people are going to fuse according to 1/0 anyway. Usually 250 or 300A for "1/0" OFC. So, that extra size isn't helping anyone really.

...

But the thing is price point. If it's AWG 1/0, which is going to be smaller than what their buddy has, then the price should reflect it. I could honestly give a rat's ass about flexibility. I don't know why tying wire into a knot is so important to people. To me, strand count is a marketing ploy. I really, really like the braided wire like Hyperflex though.

...
I am not a customer for 1/0 AWG cable, but if for the sake of helping out ...

If I purchase wire that claims to be xx AWG size then I would expect it to fit (without any trouble) into a terminal block or amplifier that claims to accept size xx AWG wire. So over-sizing it doesn't do much other than make it less flexible, more expensive, and more frustrating to install in my view.

I do agree that flexibility and strand count are marketing tools with little relevance to performance or installation, but if that is what people are shopping for it's hard not to cater to it at the risk of loosing customers.

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Old 12-18-2012   #10
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Default Re: OFC & CCA - Oversized or standard - Do you care?

Unfortunately there is so much you can do with wire cheaply.

CCA cheap and not as efficient. OFC not so cheap yet efficient. A mix or hybrid (say instead of 90% aluminum maybe try a different ratio like 50/50) a mix of both worlds. But then you have other companies working on the idea. Soon others will follow and you are in the battle of price again (This is the biggest deciding factor).


You could go high end as you've stated yet the issue here is proving why yours cost more to masses of budget oriented minds. And the uncertainty anything will sell...

I'm sure your sick and tired of hearing this as well but pricing is "Excalibur". It will either help you or hurt you. Personally, I don't know how well the CCA worked for you, I would stick to what you have so far and figure a way to make it cheaper without effecting the overall performance. Wire's wire plain and simple (yes different variations but looking at the competition)
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