New School Soundstream gut pics - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 12-24-2011   #1
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Default New School Soundstream gut pics

I just picked up this SS Reference 1.100 today and thought someone might like to see under the hood.

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Old 12-24-2011   #2
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Nice pics, thanx for posting

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Old 12-24-2011   #3
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

careful or the overlord will take them and make others pay for viewing.

does the music cause us to do what we do, or do we cause the music to do what it does?
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Old 12-24-2011   #4
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Holy caps Batman! Someone who knows amp design please chime in on what you think of the layout. Thanks for posting the pics.

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Old 12-25-2011   #5
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Just noticed something I've never seen. A 1000 watt amp with 2 sets of power and ground terminals. The only time I see this it's on big spl amps.

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Old 12-25-2011   #6
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

I should take a listen... thing looks pretty robust!

Some equipment in some cars...
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Old 12-25-2011   #7
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

I'm assuming you bought this used. The 470uF 80V capacitors near the audio section are already starting to bulge/vent....

Other than that massive reliability flaw...it could be nice.

Last edited by envisionelec; 12-25-2011 at 07:09 PM..
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Old 12-27-2011   #8
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

WHAT? I bought this thing brand fucking new! I'd be very interested in exactly what you are talking about envisionelec.
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Old 12-27-2011   #9
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by IbizaOnAcid View Post
WHAT? I bought this thing brand fucking new! I'd be very interested in exactly what you are talking about envisionelec.
Wow - then I must be incorrect. The vents on some of the capacitors around the audio output stage (near the diagonally mounted resistors) appear to be punctured with some kind of crust around some of them. I noted just one bulged, but it could be the camera angle.

Normally capacitors don't have any kind of holes in the vents - a breach here indicates they have failed during a test or were damaged in manufacturing.
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Old 12-27-2011   #10
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkjay View Post
Holy caps Batman! Someone who knows amp design please chime in on what you think of the layout. Thanks for posting the pics.
It's actually quite nice. It's certainly a very unique design. I'd love to evaluate it.
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Old 12-27-2011   #11
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Envision's observations made me curious...
I just took delivery of these




Gut pics, comin' right up

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Old 12-27-2011   #12
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Gut pics of the REF 4.760








I did find that one of the 3amps, was of a previous year or generation
1 had PMC-480-11 and the other 2 had PMC-480-12 , on the pc-board, other than that, the components seem to be identical.


Last edited by IBcivic; 12-27-2011 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 12-27-2011   #13
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

First off I apologize to everyone for my knee-jerk reaction to envisionelec's post. I am gonna open it back up and take a closer look. Obviously I'm hoping it's just my lack of photography skills that's causing those caps to look faulty but we'll see.
amitaF, I have a 4.760 as well and IIRC the layout on those is quite different from the 1.1000. I have had the 4.760 powering my front stage for about 6 months and really like it. If everything is ok with the new amp it will be powering my subs (no shit, right?) and I will post up some photos of the finished product when it's done.
Happy almost New Year to all!
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Old 12-27-2011   #14
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by IbizaOnAcid View Post
First off I apologize to everyone for my knee-jerk reaction to envisionelec's post. I am gonna open it back up and take a closer look. Obviously I'm hoping it's just my lack of photography skills that's causing those caps to look faulty but we'll see.
amitaF, I have a 4.760 as well and IIRC the layout on those is quite different from the 1.1000. I have had the 4.760 powering my front stage for about 6 months and really like it. If everything is ok with the new amp it will be powering my subs (no shit, right?) and I will post up some photos of the finished product when it's done.
Happy almost New Year to all!
I am anxiously waiting for a ref 2.370 and a ref 1.1000, too

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Old 12-27-2011   #15
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitaF View Post
Gut pics of the REF 4.760

I did find that one of the 3amps, was of a previous year or generation
1 had PMC-480-11 and the other 2 had PMC-480-12 , on the pc-board, other than that, the components seem to be identical.
This is a typical A/B amp, but interestingly, the output drivers are heatsinked right with the outputs and there is a good amount of HF compensation around them. The outputs are beefy TO-247 size.

You don't see this sort of good engineering in car amplifiers much anymore. At first blush, I am impressed. There is a question of the heatsink clamps used - there should really be another pair of screws per clamp so that the output transistors are evenly clamped. But other than this minor detail, I think it's a nice design.

I'm glad to see that the engineers chose to mix through hole and SMD technology where appropriate. Some high dissipation applications cannot be replaced with SMD - even if it looks good on paper. And bias pots!

I am definitely impressed!

Last edited by envisionelec; 12-27-2011 at 03:01 PM..
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Old 12-27-2011   #16
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Sporting an ear to ear grin...thanx for the encouraging comments, envision

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Old 12-27-2011   #17
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by envisionelec View Post
It's actually quite nice. It's certainly a very unique design. I'd love to evaluate it.
WOW! Thanks for your input. You sound like a fair guy,you speak your mind good or bad. Just looked on the SS site and saw the 1.1000 is a class G design any thoughts on their choice to use class G over D. Thanks on any info you can provide.

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Old 12-27-2011   #18
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Well after opening the amp back up and taking a close look at those capacitors I'm afraid envisionelec is right! The damn things are leaking out of the top and many of them have holes right in the center of the top of them where the four "seams" meet. I swear I think I would rather go through the trouble of replacing them myself rather than the major hassle of returning it and waiting for a replacement. I imagine what it's going to cost me to ship it back to where I got it would cover a large part of the cost of replacements. envisionelec, what do you think about this? Am I an idiot to even consider this course of action? Please advise. As you can imagine I am quite bummed.
Thanks for your help and to quote Rodger Waters, "...amazing powers of observation".
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Old 12-27-2011   #19
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Of course even if I did successfully change out the caps that still does nothing to address the reason they went bad in the first place. Man, what a drag!
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Old 12-27-2011   #20
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by IbizaOnAcid View Post
Well after opening the amp back up and taking a close look at those capacitors I'm afraid envisionelec is right! The damn things are leaking out of the top and many of them have holes right in the center of the top of them where the four "seams" meet. I swear I think I would rather go through the trouble of replacing them myself rather than the major hassle of returning it and waiting for a replacement. I imagine what it's going to cost me to ship it back to where I got it would cover a large part of the cost of replacements. envisionelec, what do you think about this? Am I an idiot to even consider this course of action? Please advise. As you can imagine I am quite bummed.
Thanks for your help and to quote Rodger Waters, "...amazing powers of observation".
I absolutely wouldn't touch it. Get Grizz Archer in here to see what needs to be done. The capacitors brands (DKE) are known to be very cheap caps and knock offs of United Chemicon. This is exactly the kind of thing that will kill a good amp...or brand for that matter. The placement for these caps is critical due to the commutation currents in the output stage of this Class G amp.
They have got to go and you should NOT be the one footing any of the bill!

Aaron
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Old 12-27-2011   #21
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkjay View Post
WOW! Thanks for your input. You sound like a fair guy,you speak your mind good or bad. Just looked on the SS site and saw the 1.1000 is a class G design any thoughts on their choice to use class G over D. Thanks on any info you can provide.
I'll get into the probable reasons for this when I'm back home and not typing into a mobile device.
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Old 12-28-2011   #22
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Amazing observation ability

Great thread
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Old 12-28-2011   #23
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

that stinks that they would tout the return of the Reference line which look really nice and have good numbers with them and then use cheap components on something as inexpensive as the caps. I was seriously considering getting a couple of these, but now I am very undecided now.

Ibiza or AmitaF

have either of you opened up one of the class A/B amps to see if the same crappy caps are used in those? If so, it would seem they would probably suffer the same issue unless it was jsut a bad batch of caps, but quality control must suck because I noticed the same thing envision did when I looked at the pics.

The original caps in some of my 15 to 20 year old amps look in better condition than those.
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Old 12-28-2011   #24
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkjay View Post
Just noticed something I've never seen. A 1000 watt amp with 2 sets of power and ground terminals. The only time I see this it's on big spl amps.
We did it just for you bro! If I had my way, we would do this on everything 1k or bigger. Also allows direct input for those who run caps, aux batteries, etc...
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Old 12-28-2011   #25
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Default Re: New School Soundstream gut pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by envisionelec View Post
This is a typical A/B amp, but interestingly, the output drivers are heatsinked right with the outputs and there is a good amount of HF compensation around them. The outputs are beefy TO-247 size.

You don't see this sort of good engineering in car amplifiers much anymore. At first blush, I am impressed. There is a question of the heatsink clamps used - there should really be another pair of screws per clamp so that the output transistors are evenly clamped. But other than this minor detail, I think it's a nice design.

I'm glad to see that the engineers chose to mix through hole and SMD technology where appropriate. Some high dissipation applications cannot be replaced with SMD - even if it looks good on paper. And bias pots!

I am definitely impressed!
I'm impressed that you're impressed. I always value your opinion since I a not an amp engineer and like to hear what other knowledgeable people have to say. The REF boards took years to get right and all previous attempts fell short of what we were looking for. All of the grey ones that were sold in Europe were failures that our FIRED German distributor back doored directly from the factory. Imagine the load I almost dumped when I saw them in vehicles at the Sinsheim show! I was not happy. All of the new designs have been awesome for us, this far...
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