Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 07-01-2014   #1
 
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Red face Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Hi all

I'm planning out my first car audio install. I'm just going to describe my plan, and anyone who feels like it can chime in with suggestions. I'll make a build log once the planning is over and the installing starts.

This is going into my 80's Mazda E2000 van. It's a camper conversion. I've done two camper conversions on this same model van before, so that part will be OK. I'm trying to keep everything "period" if possible.

So for the purposes of the audio install, at this point I still need to decide on subs, source unit, where and how to mount the speakers, and what sort of treatment to do to the front doors.

Sound treatment

Currently the van is at 'completely stripped out' stage - all the stock trim, headlining, soundproofing etc is out except the dash, which will also come out soon. I need to leave that in so I can drive it.



You can see that the front seats sit on top of the engine, there's a starter battery under the driver's seat and then I have a 100aH deep cycle battery under the passenger seat. So I have two firewalls where engine noise can get into the van. My cellphone SPL meter app says it's 89dB while driving at the moment with no sound proofing!!

First step will be adding body deadener to all the interior panels - floor pan, firewalls, door panels, roof, rear window panels (have been steeled over), rear wall panels, rear doors, up on the underside of the wheel arches, anywhere else that looks like it would help. Maybe the entire underside of the van.

Then I have a 1.4mx2.4m sheet of mass-loaded vinyl bonded to carpet underlay, which will be going all over the engine compartment, and on the floorpan in the front. I'll have some left over, which will probably just get double-layered. This will get carpeted over.

I'm getting upholstered ply door cards made up to cover the entire front door surfaces.

A wall is being constructed between the front of rear parts of the van - the plan at the moment is to use 3mm wood veneer laminated 2 layers thick on both sides, stuff acoustic foam inside it, and upholster the front-facing side. So far it's just framing. It's VERY strong framing!!

The dash and above the windshield be re-upholstered, and the roof will be padded with acoustic foam and possibly a layer of mass loaded vinyl if I can figure out how to keep it up there, it's heavy stuff!

Audio gear acquired so far

I just have the front sound stage sorted out so far.

Clarion APA 4400 amp - [email protected]
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/MungoBl...APA4200G,0.pdf
Actually an "Addzest" branded amp, apparently these share some heritage with McIntosh

Dayton Audio RS150-4 6" woofers
Dayton Audio RS150-4 6" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm

Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" ring radiator tweeters
Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter

MiniDSP 2-in 4-out
MiniDSP kit | MiniDSP

Front door treatment

I can get the mass-loaded vinyl without the underlay bonded to it, so routing out a cavity in the ply door card and filling it with a sandwich of foam and mass-loaded vinyl is what I'm considering at the moment.

I'll see if there is any space left in the doors, and stuff any gaps full of sheep's wool insulation. (My partner's mum has some sheep on her farm that we can shear!!)

Front stage speaker placement

The 6" drivers will go in the doors. Is it worth somehow angling them up towards the driving position? Are there any gotchas on mounting, or can I just route some holes and screw the drivers in?

The 1" tweeters will go in the A pillars. The plan is to add some wood struts covering the steel A-pillars, and mount the tweeters recessed into the wood, angled towards the driving position.

Subwoofer

I am undecided on subs. There is about 20" of space between the front seats and where the wall is, but to get at the engine the front seats fold up, so I need to leave about half of that free.

The two options I can think of are:

1. Build a 9" thick sub box the width and height of the van and mount it on the wall

2. Run Infinite Baffle through the wall

I'm liking option #2 to be honest!!! If anyone can chime in on some suitable speakers that wouldn't look out of place in the 1980s and are good for IB, I'm all ears.

I'm also currently amp shopping, but I think I'll get the subs first and wait for a bargain on another old Clarion amp to match the APA 4400.

Source unit

I actually have no idea on source unit. I'm doing as much reading as I can get away with on old Clarion units that might do the job, the Old School Clarion Lovers thread is a goldmine of info!
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Old 07-04-2014   #2
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

If you go infinite baffle on the wall behind you, make sure there are no air leaks between the driver area and the back. also you would have to go thicker than the dual 6mm walls, I would think. But you have potential for some crazy large subs in a van like that
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Old 07-14-2014   #3
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Well, the install is coming along, the wall and front door panels should be done by the weekend.

I've convinced the installer to use much thicker materials for the wall (thanks ilikepinktacos), so we should be looking at doubled 9mm for the baffle and 9mm for the back of the wall. Will post more photos once it's done!

Soundproofing MLV is laid down in the front floor, and has made a big difference - almost all the noise is coming from the rear of the van now, so I'm really looking forward to getting the wall in there!

The kit list is looking good now too, after a few lucky purchases:

Vifa XT25SC90 1" ring radiator tweeters
Dayton Audio RS-150 6" midbass drivers
MiniDSP (will need another for the subs)
McIntosh PF-2343I-A head unit (with CD and TAPE DECK!)
Clarion CDC635 6 Disc changer
Clarion Ce-net to C-bus converter
Clarion DXZ538R head unit (will go in the back of the van)
Clarion APA4200G 4x50W class AB amp (with McIntosh Power Guard)
Clarion APA4400 4x100W class AB amp (with McIntosh Power Guard)
McIntosh EF-1080I 4x35W + 1x70W class D amp (will go in the back)

Have settled on a pair of the JBL GT5-12 12" drivers for the infinite baffle subs - with Fs=29Hz, Xmax=14mm and Qts=0.58, they're about perfect, and I can buy them locally. Plus they don't look like spaceships.

A couple of wiring questions. Here's my current plan:



The two batteries are under the driver's and passengers' seats, separated by about 1.5m. Is it best to run a heavy gauge ground wire to the starter battery from the aux -ve terminal, or should I ground this to the chassis instead?

Also, am I correct in running power cables for the head unit (no inbuilt amps) all the way from the amp fusebox? The stock stereo power comes from the starter battery via the main fusebox, and routes right around the other side of the vehicle. Given the extra battery, it seemed more correct to run a new set of cables to it, but it might not have any actual advantage.

Last edited by Kermit_; 07-14-2014 at 06:46 PM..
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Old 07-14-2014   #4
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Sub'd for an interesting idea in a vehicle totally up my alley. Can we get a couple pics of the van from the outside. It looks like something we never got in N America.
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Old 07-14-2014   #5
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Ha, yeah sure.





Here's the colour swatches I gave the painters... something got lost in translation, but the fail colours they used ended up growing on me!!


Last edited by Kermit_; 07-14-2014 at 09:14 PM.. Reason: Blurred out plates
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Old 07-14-2014   #6
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Welcome to the forum! These have been some fantastic first posts. I don't have any useful advice yet, but I'm in for this thread because this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit_ View Post
I'll see if there is any space left in the doors, and stuff any gaps full of sheep's wool insulation. (My partner's mum has some sheep on her farm that we can shear!!)
I believe this will be a forum-first of someone hand-shearing their own wool for sound treatment. That is something I am compelled to be a part of

cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit_ View Post
Well, if there's anything we've got extra of in New Zealand, it's sheep...
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Old 07-14-2014   #7
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Well, if there's anything we've got extra of in New Zealand, it's sheep...
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Old 07-15-2014   #8
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

to answer some of your original questions:
Yes, it is probably better to run a separate power/ground feed from the amp fuse block to the Aux battery for your head unit, rather than the stock one from the starter battery. Ideally your audio powers and audio grounds should all be tied to the same spot, as that helps limit "ground potential" noise introduced. Also your head unit and miniDSP should be turning on before the amps to limit turn-on thump.

As far as tying the two battery grounds together, I would leave them however they are stock unless you run into problems.

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Well, if there's anything we've got extra of in New Zealand, it's sheep...
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Old 07-15-2014   #9
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94VG30DE View Post
Also your head unit and miniDSP should be turning on before the amps to limit turn-on thump.
For future people finding this thread - MiniDSP have got a really good car power supply addon that includes remote de-thump circuitry:

http://www.minidsp.com/images/docume...20isolator.pdf

It regulates 10-18V in down to a steady 12V out, which you can run several MiniDSPs or other equipment off (up to 3W, the MiniDSP 2x4 uses <1W) and also has a 3-second de-thump circuit.
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Old 07-16-2014   #10
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit_ View Post
For future people finding this thread - MiniDSP have got a really good car power supply addon that includes remote de-thump circuitry:

http://www.minidsp.com/images/docume...20isolator.pdf

It regulates 10-18V in down to a steady 12V out, which you can run several MiniDSPs or other equipment off (up to 3W, the MiniDSP 2x4 uses <1W) and also has a 3-second de-thump circuit.
Yes, but you will need one miniDC per balanced miniDSP 2x4, or one miniDC per two un-blanaced miniDSP 2x4, due to the increased current requirements of the balanced unit. FYI

Quote:
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Well, if there's anything we've got extra of in New Zealand, it's sheep...
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Old 07-16-2014   #11
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

autodupe

Quote:
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Well, if there's anything we've got extra of in New Zealand, it's sheep...
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Old 07-16-2014   #12
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Cool build man! Some really nice geqar listied, and I'm loving the IB wall idea!
FWIW, I'd be adding another 18mm at least to the mounting baffle. You're going to want it mighty solid!
Another Kiwi here. Where are you based?

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Old 07-17-2014   #13
 
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Cool Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinister-kustoms View Post
Cool build man! Some really nice geqar listied, and I'm loving the IB wall idea!
FWIW, I'd be adding another 18mm at least to the mounting baffle. You're going to want it mighty solid!
Another Kiwi here. Where are you based?
Based in Wellington - the sheep farm is up your way actually!

I'll post some pics when I get the van back with the wall built - should be clearer on what needs doing with some pics. It won't be properly airtight sealed until the floor, roof, insulation, rear furniture etc are all installed but should still sound pretty good.
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Old 07-17-2014   #14
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Cool! Where did you get the MLV from by the way? I'm having a hell of a time trying to source any here!

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Old 07-17-2014   #15
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Forman's building supplies, they have a depot in Wellington (Seaview, by Petone):
New Zealand's Specialised Distributor of Insulation, Ceilings and Interior Wall Systems, LED Lighting and Renewable Energy Solutions - Forman Building Systems

They stock several different kinds, and it's pretty cheap!
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Old 07-17-2014   #16
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

I'm using this stuff, it was $177 for a 1.3m x 2.6m sheet:
Acoustop Underlay - Forman Building Systems

They also have the bare MLV tho which I imagine would be cheaper.

Bunnings has 10m rolls of 3mm self-adhesive foil-backed closed cell foam which is cheap at $30:
Maple Leaf Underlay Roll with Poly Vapor Barrier 1x10m SKU 00278493 | Bunnings Warehouse

HTH!
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Old 07-23-2014   #17
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Slow progress... was hoping to have the wall finished and be ready to start putting in speakers by now!!


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Old 07-23-2014   #18
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

subscribed!
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Old 07-24-2014   #19
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Door cards being measured up... will be stained two-tone to match the exterior :-)



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I must say the paint is umh... er... vibrant
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Old 07-24-2014   #21
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Lookin great!
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Old 08-03-2014   #22
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Just obtained a Nakamichi PA-350 to run the front stage mids and tweeters... unless I can find a Clarion equivalent, it's not going to be an all-oldschool-Clarion build any more. Although it's still all-oldschool-Japanese. :-)

The system is now:
Clarion DRX5675 + Clarion CDC635 6-disk changer -> MiniDSP
Nakamichi PA-350 -> Dayton RS100 + Vifa XT25
Clarion APA4200G -> Dayton RS150
Clarion APA4400 -> As-yet-undecided 12" subs

For the subs, I'm still tossing up between the JBL GT5-12 and the Digital Designs 512.

On the one hand, the JBL is half the price and has a lower Fs, and the Digital Designs is better suited for a small ported box than infinite baffle.

On the other hand, Digital Designs! Hehe.

Will post some update pics on the infinite baffle wall tonight...

Last edited by Kermit_; 08-03-2014 at 08:03 PM..
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Old 08-03-2014   #23
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Dammit, I had my eye on that PA-350, but forgot about the auction haha. Good score man!
If it's SQ you're after, then I'd definitely lean towards the JBL's.

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Old 08-03-2014   #24
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Ha sorry!!! :-P

I was a bit drunk when I saw it, so I thought I'd leave it and buy it in the morning if nobody else had snapped it up and I still thought it was a Good Idea™.

Cheers for the tip on the subs. The JBLs just seem to be perfect for infinite baffle... Fs=29Hz, Qts=0.58, Xmax=14.2mm, $100 each! Heh. My background in sound reinforcement keeps prodding at me saying "JBL = Junk But Loud" but that's cos they used to put compression horns in everything and rip your eardrums out with too much high mids, their LF drivers have always been pretty decent AFAIK.
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Old 08-04-2014   #25
 
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Default Re: Kermit's old school 1985 Mazda E2000 install

Not as finished as I was expecting... Looking promising though!




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