Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out. - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 04-28-2019   #1
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Default Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

So. I am completely confused as to the source of my mids cutting out. Have a simple system: Sub + component speakers using their supplied xovers. JL XD400/4 powers everything, 2 channels bridged for the sub, 2 to the components.

Was working fine for months, then 6.5" door-mounted midwoofs cutting out, together, intermittently, unrelated to volume. Tweets and sub no issues. Not even sure how the heck this can happen as the 2 sides don't share any wiring after the passive external Xovers. Looked for a short that could explain it- nope.

Anyone seen this? Ideas? Thanks,

JD
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Old 04-28-2019   #2
 
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

they share the same rca pair
could be as simple as they are pulling out
can you swap the mids and tweet rca?
see if it stays or follows?


sorry /4 I didnt read close enough you are not live
only thong that could come to mind is hpf maybe it got bumped
I was cleaning up some wires and hit mine today tweeters make no noise when the lpf kicks in oops

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Old 04-29-2019   #3
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Default

Is it both sides cutting out at the same time? Or just one side? I would recommend starting at your source/head unit and work from there. See if you can recreate what's causing it to cut out. Could be a loose connection somewhere.

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Old 04-29-2019   #4
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

That is odd seeing how the tweets and mids are both on the same amp channels with a passive crossover. In some passive crossovers there is a polyswitch or fuse to protect the tweeters from too much power but I've never seen protection implemented for the mids.

Seeing how it's both mids and occurs at any volume, I can only guess that it could be an intermittent short with the wiring or, possibly, a dynamic short or open within the speakers (voice coils). I am not an EE and these are just guesses at possible causes.

Which component set is it?

I think I would go through the wiring first to make sure it's all intact and that any connectors that you used are securely crimped. I would also pull the speakers to make sure connections at the terminals are secure and that there is no way that they can be contacting any door metal.

Assuming that the speaker wiring is aftermarket ... I would inspect it to make sure that no mechanisms within the door have damaged the insulation causing an intermittent short (like windows or their mechanisms from opening and closing). If it wasn't run through the factory looms I would also make sure it wasn't damaged where it was pulled through the door and/or that it doesn't get overly stressed or kink when the door is closed.

It's a PITA but a logical first step to rule out what may be a simple cause of the problem.
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Old 04-29-2019   #5
 
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

Check the jumper on the passive crossovers for the midrange presence. I’ve had them get loose and sloppy before. They will cut out if they are loose
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Old 04-29-2019   #6
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

If the mids are cutting out at the same time on passive networks my logic only points to a highpass filter in the amp activating every once in a while.

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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

As both mids are cutting out at the same time, it is unlikely to be a wiring issue. I would look at the amp first Hillbilly SQ suggested. If not the amp, the HU? Can you substitute another 4 channel amp for troubleshooting?
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Old 04-29-2019   #8
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
If the mids are cutting out at the same time on passive networks my logic only points to a highpass filter in the amp activating every once in a while.
Good point. Pretty sure the front and rear amplification and filter sections on that amp are the same. So, the OP could swap the front speakers to the rear section to verify if something with the front section crossover is going wonky.
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Old 04-29-2019   #9
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

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Originally Posted by bluesman1 View Post
Good point. Pretty sure the front and rear amplification and filter sections on that amp are the same. So, the OP could swap the front speakers to the rear section to verify if something with the front section crossover is going wonky.
Precisely. I've seen some VERY strange things happen in this hobby. This is why no stone should be left unturned when troubleshooting.

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Old 04-29-2019   #10
 
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

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Originally Posted by SVOEO View Post
Not even sure how the heck this can happen as the 2 sides don't share any wiring after the passive external Xovers.
Just to clarify, what do u mean that they don't share any wiring AFTER the passive x-overs?

A typical component set up has 2 separate passive x-overs, 1 for each side of the stereo pair. In that case, the 2 sides wouldn't share any wiring as soon as they leave the amp.
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Old 04-29-2019   #11
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

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Originally Posted by syc0path View Post
Just to clarify, what do u mean that they don't share any wiring AFTER the passive x-overs?

A typical component set up has 2 separate passive x-overs, 1 for each side of the stereo pair. In that case, the 2 sides wouldn't share any wiring as soon as they leave the amp.
I wondered this as well, but the OP did state "their supplied xovers" as in plural. Perhaps there's a multiconductor cable to the x-overs? Regardless, unless something turns up from this x-over wiring question, I would first look at the processing section of the amp and second at the headunit for HPF if two sets of RCAs feed the amp.
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Old 04-29-2019   #12
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

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Originally Posted by bluesman1 View Post
That is odd seeing how the tweets and mids are both on the same amp channels with a passive crossover. In some passive crossovers there is a polyswitch or fuse to protect the tweeters from too much power but I've never seen protection implemented for the mids.

Seeing how it's both mids and occurs at any volume, I can only guess that it could be an intermittent short with the wiring or, possibly, a dynamic short or open within the speakers (voice coils). I am not an EE and these are just guesses at possible causes.

Which component set is it?

I think I would go through the wiring first to make sure it's all intact and that any connectors that you used are securely crimped. I would also pull the speakers to make sure connections at the terminals are secure and that there is no way that they can be contacting any door metal.

Assuming that the speaker wiring is aftermarket ... I would inspect it to make sure that no mechanisms within the door have damaged the insulation causing an intermittent short (like windows or their mechanisms from opening and closing). If it wasn't run through the factory looms I would also make sure it wasn't damaged where it was pulled through the door and/or that it doesn't get overly stressed or kink when the door is closed.

It's a PITA but a logical first step to rule out what may be a simple cause of the problem.
I did a quick check but pulling the door panels and a pillar trim on this VW GTI is a true pain. Maybe hook up small speakers to xover outputs next to narrow it down.

Yes, only the mids, both simultaneous, in and out a few times and now out for good. No fuse protection in xovers.
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Old 04-29-2019   #13
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
If the mids are cutting out at the same time on passive networks my logic only points to a highpass filter in the amp activating every once in a while.
Is it possible that the HP filter in the amp (doing the sub/mid X) can go defective but leave only the highest frequencies going through? Never heard of this. Passives are doing the mid/tweet X and there are 2 of them physically and electronically.

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Old 04-29-2019   #14
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

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Originally Posted by bluesman1 View Post
Good point. Pretty sure the front and rear amplification and filter sections on that amp are the same. So, the OP could swap the front speakers to the rear section to verify if something with the front section crossover is going wonky.
Right- I'll just use these little home speakers I have lying around as simpler and I know they work. Rears are unused in my setup.
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Old 04-29-2019   #15
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

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Originally Posted by SVOEO View Post
Right- I'll just use these little home speakers I have lying around as simpler and I know they work. Rears are unused in my setup.
Are the mids completely out or are you missing midbass and lower mids and so you are assuming they are completely out? Are you using the amps High Pass filter to high pass the front components?

If you are using the amps front channels HP filter, the easiest thing to try first is to turn it off. Even if it is already off, try sliding that switch through the positions a few times. It's probably not going to make a difference but debris or oxidation in pots and switches can cause problems and it's an easy thing to try. I'd slide that switch back and forth a few times with the system off to avoid the chance of any transients from damaging the speakers. Then turn the system on to check.

Putting a small pair of home speakers on the front section of the amp should tell you for sure that it's not the amp, assuming that they work fine. If they don't, it may be the amp or it may be the head unit. In other words, it doesn't confirm that the amp is the problem. It just narrows the possibilities.

Last edited by bluesman1; 04-29-2019 at 11:12 AM..
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Old 04-29-2019   #16
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

How does the wiring go from the xover to the mid and tweet?

Are they routed on stock wiring or a straight run of wire from xover?

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Old 04-30-2019   #17
 
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman1 View Post
Are the mids completely out or are you missing midbass and lower mids and so you are assuming they are completely out? Are you using the amps High Pass filter to high pass the front components?

If you are using the amps front channels HP filter, the easiest thing to try first is to turn it off. Even if it is already off, try sliding that switch through the positions a few times. It's probably not going to make a difference but debris or oxidation in pots and switches can cause problems and it's an easy thing to try.
I remember seeing a multiplier switch on some old amps. Like it would be a 10X multiplier. For example, the HP x-over might be set at 250Hz. Then u switch on the multiplier, and that would change the HP to 2500Hz. If there was a switch like that on his amp and it was loose, worn, or oxidized, it could cause the problem he's describing as it slides in and out.
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Old 04-30-2019   #18
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

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Originally Posted by syc0path View Post
I remember seeing a multiplier switch on some old amps. Like it would be a 10X multiplier. For example, the HP x-over might be set at 250Hz. Then u switch on the multiplier, and that would change the HP to 2500Hz. If there was a switch like that on his amp and it was loose, worn, or oxidized, it could cause the problem he's describing as it slides in and out.
I thought about that as my old JL Slash amp has one but the JL he has doesn't appear to have it.
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Old 04-30-2019   #19
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Default Re: Drs: What is my M.A. Diagnosis- Mids cutting out.

Hook up a coax speaker to front amp channel and listen for fullrange

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Old 05-19-2019   #20
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Default SOLVED

Thanks for all the help posters. I did manage to get it fixed (I teach and was slammed with final exams of late).
  • Connected a test speaker to all the Xover outputs and all worked fine.
  • Pulled off a door panel and found a one of the speaker wire leads dangling. As they both went out over a short period, at the same time, this left me still confused.
  • Pulled the other door panel off- exact same failure.
  • So, apparently it was mere coincidence that, months after the install, both wires broke loose at pretty much the exact same time and rate (sputtered a bit). Crazy.

SOURCE: Used a typical amp install wiring kit from Parts Express. While the power/ground cables included were quite good quality, I did notice that the 18GA speaker wire seemed under-sized, but I was only using 2 4" sections to reach the mid terminals, so what could go wrong, right? Upon careful inspection the actual copper is WAY undersized and brittle to boot. Just failed through normal vibration.

I am an old curmudgeon and it never ceases to amaze me how companies cheapen shit to the point of nonfunctional. Tried to buy a new awl recently- bought 3 online before one was good enough to keep. Online reviews are mostly worthless. Needed the smaller gauge power cable of the cheaper kit (Class D JL draws little juice and it was a tight run).

Maybe that helps someone- Cheers!
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