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Old 06-04-2019   #1
 
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Default question about using passive crossover on active setup

Head unit - pioneer deh-80prs
subwoofer - jl audio 10w6v3
component speakers - illusion audio lucent l6
sub amp - jl audio 500/1
speaker amp - alpine pdx-f6 4channel

I was at a car audio shop today due to having problems with my door speakers not playing. After trouble shooting the issues which was due to bad speaker wire. The shop notice on my active setup i was not using any caps on my tweeters for protection. I explain the reason was i was running full active. After explain my reason they told me. I should use the passive cross that came with my component on the tweeters only and set the bi-amp switch on the crossover's to on to protect my tweeters from blowing. Now my question is . If i do this will this defeat the purpose for full active.
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Old 06-04-2019   #2
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

You can if you want. The idea is that if you accidentally send a full range signal to the tweeters they won't blow because the passive is there as a back up.

Personally, just be careful. I don't want the phase issues with the passive and if you want to run them at a different freq than the passive, you can't

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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

your installer was "so close" to getting it right...but missed it the shot.

Yes you should use a passive crossover on your tweeter when running active, but it needs to be well below the active xo freq so as to not interfere with the sound of the tweeter when the active XO is working.

Its only there in case the XO craps out and leaves your tweeter unprotected and getting a full range signal that would fry it. There are many articles on what value to use, but look for the one from Andy at Audiofrog, his is considered to be the gold standard. You just need a simple 6db cap inline with he positive tweeter speaker wire...the best value is in the article that andy wrote.

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Old 06-04-2019   #4
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

so let me get this right. if i do what they are telling me. i will not be able to set the tweeters freq off the deck to where i want it to be which is 8k with a 12db slope. instead it will set it to what ever is on the crossover.
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by shadowm891 View Post
so let me get this right. if i do what they are telling me. i will not be able to set the tweeters freq off the deck to where i want it to be which is 8k with a 12db slope. instead it will set it to what ever is on the crossover.
A)That depends on what the passive is set to.
B) why that high? Almost pointless. What do you have that plays from your midrange to 8k?

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Old 06-04-2019   #6
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowm891 View Post
so let me get this right. if i do what they are telling me. i will not be able to set the tweeters freq off the deck to where i want it to be which is 8k with a 12db slope. instead, it will set it to what ever is on the crossover.
You will not be able to set them any LOWER than the passive but you could go higher. Andy suggests setting a cap value such that the "passive x-over" point is an octave or more below what you plan the active x-over setting to be. This way, the cap won't interfere with the active setup and still protect the tweeter. I did this and added a fuse (belt and suspenders).
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Old 06-04-2019   #7
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by minbari View Post
A)That depends on what the passive is set to.
B) why that high? Almost pointless. What do you have that plays from your midrange to 8k?

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the reason my tweeters are set to 8k with a 12 db slope is. anything lower is to bright.how can i tell what the passive is set to ?
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Old 06-04-2019   #8
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by OldNewbie View Post
You will not be able to set them any LOWER than the passive but you could go higher. Andy suggests setting a cap value such that the "passive x-over" point is an octave or more below what you plan the active x-over setting to be. This way, the cap won't interfere with the active setup and still protect the tweeter. I did this and added a fuse (belt and suspenders).
the manual for the components i have say 2000hz 12db linkwitz riley. don't know if this is the passive settings of the crossover
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Old 06-04-2019   #9
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by shadowm891 View Post
the reason my tweeters are set to 8k with a 12 db slope is. anything lower is to bright.how can i tell what the passive is set to ?
That makes zero sense. You eliminated all midrange and they get less bright?

The 2000 hz they were designed for should be much better.
what are you eqing them with?
Aiming? (On axis or off?)

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Old 06-04-2019   #10
 
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I'm equipping my components with a alpine pdx-f6 4 channel amp. And I have the tweeters installed in the stock location of a Nissan 350z if that is what you are asking.
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Old 06-04-2019   #11
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

Install caps and be done with it. I thought about running this way (passives on an active setup) but the ONLY reason to do so is to protect the tweets, which a capacitor does on it's own. I installed 2200 Hz caps on my tweets and they're crossed at 4500 hz, so nowhere near listening levels. You don't hear them, and they don't affect tuning.

Yes, I have cars. They have aftermarket audio.
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Old 06-04-2019   #12
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

What is the low pass setting for your midbass? 8khz? Or a gap of 6khz?

Try 2500-3000 Hz and EQ between that range, cutting as much as you want instead of crossing that high.

Then, get a non polarized cap, in the range of 25uf to 30 uf, 500- 1000 Hz below the crossing point.

Last edited by Alrojoca; 06-04-2019 at 08:38 PM..
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Old 06-04-2019   #13
 
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Here what settings I have on my pioneer deh-80prs. Sub 80hz 24db , mid low 80hz 12db , mid high 3.6hz 9db tweeters 6.3k 18db. Sorry thought it was a 12db slope on tweeters.
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

2-way or 3-way? Missing from 3.6-6.3 hz in the range? Am I reading that right?

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Old 06-04-2019   #15
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowm891 View Post
Here what settings I have on my pioneer deh-80prs. Sub 80hz 24db , mid low 80hz 12db , mid high 3.6hz 9db tweeters 6.3k 18db. Sorry thought it was a 12db slope on tweeters.


Try mid hp 80hz Lp 3000hz, high Hp 3000hz -12db slopes.

I doubt -9db slopes are available it has to be -6db that slope is way to shallow for tweeters, and risky also, -12 or -24 will be way smoother, maybe that is your issue of brightness.

Al

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Old 06-04-2019   #16
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

it's 3 way if you count the 2 way component's with sub. i don't understand what you are saying by Missing from 3.6-6.3 hz in the range?
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Old 06-04-2019   #17
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by Alrojoca View Post
Try mid hp 80hz Lp 3000hz, high Hp 3000hz -12db slopes.

I doubt -9db slopes are available it has to be -6db that slope is way to shallow for tweeters, and risky also, -12 or -24 will be way smoother, maybe that is your issue of brightness.
yeah i don't know why i said 9 i mean to say 6 db slope on the mid high's. i cross the tweeters at 18 db slops because at 6.3 hz it gets real bright at 12 db so with 18 db it lower the brightness some.
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Old 06-04-2019   #18
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by shadowm891 View Post
yeah i don't know why i said 9 i mean to say 6 db slope on the mid high's. i cross the tweeters at 18 db slops because at 6.3 hz it gets real bright at 12 db so with 18 db it lower the brightness some.

After crossing at 2500 Hz the Midbass and the tweeter
Try -24 or -36 Db, then cut EQ if it's too bright, it's better to EQ, that setting crossovers with gaps to cut the range of Frequencies that you don't want to hear, cut as much as you can with the EQ to find the tonality you like, 5khz, 2khz.

Maybe even bring the mid bass down to 2khz and leave the tweeter at 2500

Al

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Old 06-04-2019   #19
 
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Default

Cross them lower so they match your mid crossover and turn the gain way down on your tweeters. Sorry if I missed it. What component set do you have.?
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Old 06-04-2019   #20
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

Yes cut highs output gains before EQ cut, if it's too bright, it's in the same network where you set the slopes, either twist the dial or move the lever to find the setting to cut the decibels.

Al

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Old 06-04-2019   #21
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by shadowm891 View Post
it's 3 way if you count the 2 way component's with sub. i don't understand what you are saying by Missing from 3.6-6.3 hz in the range?
Your settings tell the midranges to stop playing at 3.6khz, then you donít ask your tweeters to start playing until 6.3khz. That means you donít have any speakers playing from 3.6-6.6khz. Thereís A LOT of musical information there that you arenít hearing, because your settings are keeping that signal from reaching the speakers.

You want them to cross over in a way that when the midranges stop playing the tweeters take over. Find out how low the tweeters can play at high volume, with 24 dB slopes. Start around 5khz, and lower it if they still sound clean at high volumes. When they start to sound bad, back off the volume and raise them up again. Find where they can play very loudly without heavy distortion, then leave it.

Once you determine how low the tweeters can play cleanly, set the mid lpf to the same frequency, or one below, at a 24 dB slope as well. This will give you a nice transition from midrange to tweeter. You may still need to adjust the overall SPL of the tweeters to balance them with the mids, but youíll have your crossover points taken care of.

Then the EQing begins...
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Old 06-05-2019   #22
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrojoca View Post
After crossing at 2500 Hz the Midbass and the tweeter
Try -24 or -36 Db, then cut EQ if it's too bright, it's better to EQ, that setting crossovers with gaps to cut the range of Frequencies that you don't want to hear, cut as much as you can with the EQ to find the tonality you like, 5khz, 2khz.

Maybe even bring the mid bass down to 2khz and leave the tweeter at 2500
what about my lpf and mid lpf. do i just leave them at 80hz with a 12db slope ?. i notice you said to set the mid lpf to the same as tweeter. do you mean mid hpf. becuase the mid lpf can not go up that high only the mid hpf.
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Old 06-05-2019   #23
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by shadowm891 View Post
what about my lpf and mid lpf. do i just leave them at 80hz with a 12db slope ?. i notice you said to set the mid lpf to the same as tweeter. do you mean mid hpf. becuase the mid lpf can not go up that high only the mid hpf.

Yes, you sub LP and your midbass HP are good at 80 Hz, the slope for the sub can be different than the slopes for the Midbass and highs, but mid and highs should have the same slope.
I still prefer -24 Db slopes for the mid bass ( hp Lp) and high Hp, and the sub, but you may choose the subs slope to be -12 Db, don't bother with -18db slopes and -6db slopes, not practical.

Cut tweeter Db gains if too bright, then cut EQ in the 2-12khz if needed, but first reduce the gains -3 to -6 Db before EQ

Don't forget the non polarized 24 uF- 30uf, for the tweeters a polypropylene is more $ but worth the extra money, higher than 12 volts also.
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Old 06-05-2019   #24
 
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These should get you started.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...xoCV28QAvD_BwE
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Old 06-05-2019   #25
 
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Default Re: question about using passive crossover on active setup

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Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Your settings tell the midranges to stop playing at 3.6khz, then you donít ask your tweeters to start playing until 6.3khz. That means you donít have any speakers playing from 3.6-6.6khz. Thereís A LOT of musical information there that you arenít hearing, because your settings are keeping that signal from reaching the speakers.

You want them to cross over in a way that when the midranges stop playing the tweeters take over.
Just to clarify, crossover points aren't absolute -- the speaker still plays freq's below the crossover point, but at a gradually diminishing volume that falls off at a rate equal to the crossover's slope. So if your crossover point was 2000Hz with a 12bB per octave slope, a 1000Hz note would be 12dB quieter than a 2000Hz note. A steeper slope (ie, 18 or 24dB) means a faster roll-off.

U can slightly over- or under-lap crossover points and experiment with different slopes as part of the fine-tuning process. But a gap from 3.6-6kHz is way too big.
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