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Old 1 Week Ago   #1
 
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Default Light Tuning Questons

I purchased an Alpine ilx-107 and PDX-V9. The HU has some light tuning options available tuning options available for it. It can set simple crossover settings and delays. In order to improve sound quality, I am thinking I am going to get AF GB15, GS690 and a JL audio sub. I would not use the back seats.

Could I set up the tunes with front outputs running to the amp and then the tweets, The rear speakers would be removed.

Would this allow the Alpine Headunit to act as a DSP setting a time alightment and cross over for each of the front speakers. Would this work or would using the same connections work better.

thanks for any inpurts
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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

Quote:
Originally Posted by fftfk View Post
I purchased an Alpine ilx-107 and PDX-V9. The HU has some light tuning options available tuning options available for it. It can set simple crossover settings and delays. In order to improve sound quality, I am thinking I am going to get AF GB15, GS690 and a JL audio sub. I would not use the back seats.



Could I set up the tunes with front outputs running to the amp and then the tweets, The rear speakers would be removed.



Would this allow the Alpine Headunit to act as a DSP setting a time alightment and cross over for each of the front speakers. Would this work or would using the same connections work better.



thanks for any inpurts


Note to self - donít post to a forum a half hour after taking an Ambien! Hahaha - oops.

Let me try to restate my questions?

Can I use the HU built in crossovers/time delay to use my front speaker output to run the tweeters, my rear speaker output to run the front woofer, and sub output to run the sub?

Does time delay matter if they are located in the front door or rear doors? IE, does the fact that Iím using the rear door outputs impact the calculation of time delay? Or is time delay purely a function of distance?

Thanks for any help!


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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

You can do everything (using the tuneit app) EXCEPT run full active. Unfortunately neither your HU nor amp appears to offer the crossover flexibility to run three-way, so you'll have to figure out some way to get the tweeters high-passed at ~3000 Hz or whatever and and the woofers bandpassed between 80 and 3000 or whatever.

Here's a little video on the tuneit app:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJkrHRGIYV0

The rest of what you need can be done just fine with the 107. It gives you independent time delay, I believe 9 bands of parametric EQ (although not independent per channel).

So you can KINDA get away with it, but you would need some bi-amp capable crossovers (like this: https://images.crutchfieldonline.com...165FX-o_co.jpg) so you can set your time delay on each tweeter and mid separately).

I don't know if anyone sells those separately from the component sets and even if they did you don't know if it will be ideal for your speakers (it almost definitely won't be). You COULD build your own crossovers, but that is a whole 'nother rabbit hole.

So basically you ALMOST have what you need to run active. But almost is not good enough when you are dropping the kind of coin you have already have invested. You should add a separate high-quality DSP and do all your tuning and filtering there. I like the JL TWK88. Some have complained about noise, so maybe you want to do your own research.
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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

Thanks! I was looking at that JL unit. Any other units in that price range? Itís so hard to tell when items have been released. I was looking at dataone (deltaone?) only to figure out it was released back in 2011. With house fast tech works I want to make sure I get one that is on the newer end of the spectrum.

I get about setting gains on an amp but what do you do with the amplifier highpass knobs when using a DSP? Just set them all the way to the way to the most open setting to let the DSP handle the filtering? IE, let the most amount of signal through?


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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

Yes, you can do what you are asking about, but it will be pretty limited compared to having a stand alone DSP. Adding a DSP-408 between the head unit and amplifier will give you far better control over the system. In the mean time, I've outlined below what I believe you can do with the equipment you have. The configuration below will feed your tweeters with the front channels and your mids with your rear channels. Keep that in mind when you do your tuning.

ILX-107 Front Out > PDX-V9 CH-1/2 IN
ILX-107 Rear Out > PDX-V9 CH-3/4 IN
ILX-107 Sub Out > PDX-V9 SUB IN

You'll be using a combination of amp and head unit crossovers to get the bandpass crossovers you need on the mids. I would start with the following settings on the PDX-V9 and adjust as needed to dial everything in.

PDX-V9 CH-1/2
HP FILTER: X10
CROSSOVER: 200 (2kHz)
CH-3/4 INPUT: 3/4

PDX-V9 CH-3/4
FILTER: BP
CROSSOVER: 30 (Minimum - Make use of the head unit crossover)

PDX-V9 SUB W.
SUBSONIC: Depends on your subwoofer setup.
LP FILTER: 600 (Maximum - Make use of the head unit crossover)
SUB W. INPUT: SUB W.

(Note that the crossovers for the mids and subwoofer on the amplifier could be used in combination with the crossover on the head unit in order to hit your target curve/acoustic crossover.)

On the gain side of things, I would set the gain with on your subs and then adjust the gains accordingly to match for the mids (rear) and tweeters (front) accordingly. We will get into additional adjustment at the head unit below.

Use the TuneIt App as JMikeK mentioned, as it will give you the most control out of your head unit. In the app, I would make the adjustment settings as follows...

Crossover
Front HPF (Tweeters)
Level: Adjust as needed to match the level of both tweeters to the mids
Frequency: 200Hz (just some added protection on the tweeters, should be more than 36dB down from the amp X-Over anyway)
Slope: 24

Rear HPF (Mids)
Level: Adjust as needed to match the level of both mids to the Subwoofer(s) and tweeters
Frequency: 50-80Hz (Whatever works best, I'm guessing 63Hz)
Slope: 24

SW LPF (Subwoofer)
Level: Adjust as needed to match the level of the Subwoofer to the mids
Frequency: 50-80Hz (Start with matching the mid HPF)
Slope: 24

Time Correction
Use the actual measurements to the tweeters, mids and subwoofer to do the time aligment. Remember that the Front speaker adjustments will apply to the tweeters, and Rear speaker adjustments will apply to the mids.

Fader/Balance
You can use this setting to further adjust the level balancing between drivers. Fading to front will reduce mid level relative to the tweeters. Fading to the rear will reduce the tweeter level relative to the mids. Balance will do the same thing except it will adjust left vs right relative levels

Parametric EQ
I would wait to make any EQ adjustments until after you have everything else set. The EQ applied to all channels when you make the adjustments. If you have a mic and measurement software, I would do a spacial average of the entire system playing (mono pink noise or sweeps) and adjust accordingly. If you don't have a mic and software, even AudioTools RTA on your phone can help identify problem areas to be adjusted.

I'll leave it up to you to test out the other settings to see if they are helpful for your specific install or not.


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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

Thanks rton20s - I didn't see the amp head a x10 multiplier! Good to know.
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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMikeK View Post
Thanks rton20s - I didn't see the amp head a x10 multiplier! Good to know.
The "solution" is likely way more convoluted to type out than execute.


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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

Quote:
Originally Posted by rton20s View Post
Yes, you can do what you are asking about, but it will be pretty limited compared to having a stand alone DSP. Adding a DSP-408 between the head unit and amplifier will give you far better control over the system. In the mean time, I've outlined below what I believe you can do with the equipment you have. The configuration below will feed your tweeters with the front channels and your mids with your rear channels. Keep that in mind when you do your tuning.

ILX-107 Front Out > PDX-V9 CH-1/2 IN
ILX-107 Rear Out > PDX-V9 CH-3/4 IN
ILX-107 Sub Out > PDX-V9 SUB IN

You'll be using a combination of amp and head unit crossovers to get the bandpass crossovers you need on the mids. I would start with the following settings on the PDX-V9 and adjust as needed to dial everything in.

PDX-V9 CH-1/2
HP FILTER: X10
CROSSOVER: 200 (2kHz)
CH-3/4 INPUT: 3/4

PDX-V9 CH-3/4
FILTER: BP
CROSSOVER: 30 (Minimum - Make use of the head unit crossover)

PDX-V9 SUB W.
SUBSONIC: Depends on your subwoofer setup.
LP FILTER: 600 (Maximum - Make use of the head unit crossover)
SUB W. INPUT: SUB W.

(Note that the crossovers for the mids and subwoofer on the amplifier could be used in combination with the crossover on the head unit in order to hit your target curve/acoustic crossover.)

On the gain side of things, I would set the gain with on your subs and then adjust the gains accordingly to match for the mids (rear) and tweeters (front) accordingly. We will get into additional adjustment at the head unit below.

Use the TuneIt App as JMikeK mentioned, as it will give you the most control out of your head unit. In the app, I would make the adjustment settings as follows...

Crossover
Front HPF (Tweeters)
Level: Adjust as needed to match the level of both tweeters to the mids
Frequency: 200Hz (just some added protection on the tweeters, should be more than 36dB down from the amp X-Over anyway)
Slope: 24

Rear HPF (Mids)
Level: Adjust as needed to match the level of both mids to the Subwoofer(s) and tweeters
Frequency: 50-80Hz (Whatever works best, I'm guessing 63Hz)
Slope: 24

SW LPF (Subwoofer)
Level: Adjust as needed to match the level of the Subwoofer to the mids
Frequency: 50-80Hz (Start with matching the mid HPF)
Slope: 24

Time Correction
Use the actual measurements to the tweeters, mids and subwoofer to do the time aligment. Remember that the Front speaker adjustments will apply to the tweeters, and Rear speaker adjustments will apply to the mids.

Fader/Balance
You can use this setting to further adjust the level balancing between drivers. Fading to front will reduce mid level relative to the tweeters. Fading to the rear will reduce the tweeter level relative to the mids. Balance will do the same thing except it will adjust left vs right relative levels

Parametric EQ
I would wait to make any EQ adjustments until after you have everything else set. The EQ applied to all channels when you make the adjustments. If you have a mic and measurement software, I would do a spacial average of the entire system playing (mono pink noise or sweeps) and adjust accordingly. If you don't have a mic and software, even AudioTools RTA on your phone can help identify problem areas to be adjusted.

I'll leave it up to you to test out the other settings to see if they are helpful for your specific install or not.
Awesome! Thanks for all of this great info! I really appreciate it. One quick question - I read the directions and your writeup but didn't see a definitive answer. Does this mean that the low pass of the tweeter and the high pass of the mid base will be exactly the same?
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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

Quote:
Originally Posted by fftfk View Post
Awesome! Thanks for all of this great info! I really appreciate it. One quick question - I read the directions and your writeup but didn't see a definitive answer. Does this mean that the low pass of the tweeter and the high pass of the mid base will be exactly the same?
Yes. This is how the PDX amp works, When you use the 10X switch on CH=1/2 to set your HPF, that becomes the LPF on CH-3/4 when you select the BPF option. Unfortunately, this is the crossover where you have the least control over the slope. But, it will probably get you by.

Also, if you see dips at any of the crossover point when you measure the frequency response, you may need to flip polarity on some of the drivers.


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Default Re: Light Tuning Questons

Thanks for all of the feedback. Based upon the comments and what Iíve read elsewhere on this forum, Iíve gone ahead and bought the JL TwK DSP. I felt with what I spent so far it would be silly to not spend that a little bit more for DSP especially considering I was getting a really good deal on it.

I am sure I will have more questions over the next few weeks!


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