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Honduh 06-13-2019 06:08 PM

Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
So my driver side 6.5” started making some horrible noises the other day and when I pulled it to check it out I noticed the surround is separating from the cone. This will be the third time in the last 3 years that I’ve had a mid fail on me because of the surround coming apart. Each set of mids has been around 300$ so it’s not like I’m buying cheap stuff. The last set was a pair of hertz.

It seems like they just start coming apart at around the 1 year mark. Conveniently right after the warranties are up I might add!! Is this normal? Am I pushing them too hard? I’m tired off constantly having the replace mids and it’s getting expensive so I like to figure this out.

Theslaking 06-13-2019 06:59 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Yes you are. When voicecoil's move to much they rip the surrounds. One could be a faulty mid but 3, I doubt it.

gijoe 06-13-2019 07:03 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Yep, you're pushing them too hard. First of all, you should learn to listen for their distortion when they are reaching high excursion. Second of all, make sure you set a safe high pass filter for them, at the levels you must be listening at, go with 80-100hz to keep them from bottoming out.

Honduh 06-13-2019 07:52 PM

I had them set at 100-2.5k so they shouldn’t of been going too low. I set my amps with a dmm, although I think i remember giving the mids a extra lil gain because they didn’t sound right.

Guess I just need to keep things turned down a lil bit. I honestly couldn’t hear any distortion from them but I always have my idmax pounding away so that’s probably making it hard to hear. I just found it strange every pair sounds and works great for about a year but sooner or later the surrounds give up.

ckirocz28 06-13-2019 08:31 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Honduh (Post 5712525)
So my driver side 6.5Ē started making some horrible noises the other day and when I pulled it to check it out I noticed the surround is separating from the cone. This will be the third time in the last 3 years that Iíve had a mid fail on me because of the surround coming apart. Each set of mids has been around 300$ so itís not like Iím buying cheap stuff. The last set was a pair of hertz.

It seems like they just start coming apart at around the 1 year mark. Conveniently right after the warranties are up I might add!! Is this normal? Am I pushing them too hard? Iím tired off constantly having the replace mids and itís getting expensive so I like to figure this out.

How much power are you giving them?

Honduh 06-13-2019 10:42 PM

200rms each. I have a jl xd600.6 on them now but it also happened when I was running my old 300/4 and they were only getting 75w rms. I know I’m running a lot more power now but honestly sound wise and how they perform there wasn’t a huge difference going from 75 to 200 watts.

thornygravy 06-14-2019 12:28 AM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Make sure you're not clipping the amp or head unit.

Holmz 06-14-2019 02:33 AM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Pushing them up with a steeper crossover and maybe to 120-Hz could help?

Honduh 06-14-2019 02:40 AM

I don’t think I’m clipping the head unit. It’s a pioneer deh80prs and I heard they’re good to pretty much max volume. Regardless I set my amps at 55 and never go over that. Usually listen at around 50.

Might try upping the crossover also, not sure if it will work well with me sub though.

Honduh 06-14-2019 02:45 AM

3 Attachment(s)
I was just thinking, I listen to most my music streaming on Spotify and notice a lot of differences in loudness and quality. Could it just be some music is recorded louder and causes distortion? Like I can listen to like 50 songs in a row and everything is fine but then every once in a while a song will come on that distorts my speakers and I will have to turn it down or skip the song. This usually would happen on songs with lots of midbass.

Holmz 06-14-2019 02:47 AM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Honduh (Post 5712693)
I was just thinking, I listen to most my music streaming on Spotify...

That maybe something to work out with a scope?

metanium 06-14-2019 06:21 AM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
I see your location is Spokane. Could this just be a matter of drivers not holding up to moisture in your doors, after exposure for over a year or so?

Lanson 06-14-2019 06:22 AM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
What were the other two brands?


Is environmental damage a possibility? Water intrusion on a speaker ill-suited? I had that issue recently and the surround was torn, amongst other horrors.


Audiofrog GS/GB are highly durable in doors and so is the Italian company Audio Development, based on my personal findings.


edit: Metanium beat me to it

Pb82 Ronin 06-14-2019 07:16 AM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
I think 200W RMS could be part of (if not the whole) the problem. Not many 6.5's can handle 200 RMS constantly, then run a potentially clipped signal to it...dunzo.

syc0path 06-14-2019 07:37 AM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by metanium (Post 5712727)
I see your location is Spokane. Could this just be a matter of drivers not holding up to moisture in your doors, after exposure for over a year or so?

Yeah I think this has a lot more to do w/ the physical environment rather than crossover points or RMS power. 6.5s are designed to run free-air, so generally the motor will bottom out before the suspension does. And the OP said the surrounds were separating rather than tearing.

Yes, moisture is the most obvious issue, but a year still seems like a short lifespan. Is there any kind of drip barrier behind/above the speaker to protect it from water (not moisture, but actual liquid water) inside the door? Are the weeping holes at the bottom of the doors clogged?

gijoe 06-14-2019 12:13 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Honduh (Post 5712643)
200rms each. I have a jl xd600.6 on them now but it also happened when I was running my old 300/4 and they were only getting 75w rms. I know Iím running a lot more power now but honestly sound wise and how they perform there wasnít a huge difference going from 75 to 200 watts.

Do you know the slope of the crossover that you're using? You should be fine with a 100hz HPF, unless you have a really shallow slope. Have you ever taken a look at the cones while they are playing at high listening levels? A subwoofer can do a lot to mask the distortion, so it's important that you set your gains without any other speakers playing, you need to listen for distortion, and you also need to watch the cone to see how much excursion you're getting at the levels you like to listen at.

You're observations that going from 75-200 watts didn't change things much are correct, doubling power only gives you a maximum of 3dB more output, so going from 75-200 watts only gave you about 4dB at best more SPL, it's noticeable if you push them to their limits, but you should not have noticed a huge difference.

Some of the comments about environmental issues could be worth looking into, besides being separated from the surround, are the cones warped at all? Also, how are you mounting the mids to the door, do you have a solid, flat baffle that they are attached to?

There seems to be something causing premature failure, considering how many you've ruined so far. If all of them have failed the same way by having the cone separate from the surround, then I would suspect glue failure, or over excursion, maybe a combination of both. Over excursion would mean that you're pushing them too hard, so you'd need to find a safer HPF, or keep the volume lower. Glue failure could be a manufacture defect, but if you've tried different brands, and had the same issue, that seems unlikely. Has there been rust on the magnets, terminals, and tinsel leads of the failed woofers?

diy.phil 06-14-2019 12:21 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
You guys get rain in Spokane every other hour. The last time I was there it was snowing too. I'm thinking the weather caused these speaker problems. Would you like to try some marine-rated speakers?

Honduh 06-14-2019 02:53 PM

Honestly it only rains in the spring and fall for a little bit. It does come down hard for those couple weeks but the rest of the year is either freezing temps or hot as hell. There’s not much in between. Lol

I don’t think they are getting wet at all, I never see any evidence of water. Could the extreme temp differences effect the surrounds much? I mean my speakers were just basically frozen for the last 4-5 months and now this last month they’ve been baking In the car in 80-90 degree weather and it’s only going to get hotter.

Honduh 06-14-2019 03:12 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by gijoe (Post 5712835)
Do you know the slope of the crossover that you're using? You should be fine with a 100hz HPF, unless you have a really shallow slope. Have you ever taken a look at the cones while they are playing at high listening levels? A subwoofer can do a lot to mask the distortion, so it's important that you set your gains without any other speakers playing, you need to listen for distortion, and you also need to watch the cone to see how much excursion you're getting at the levels you like to listen at.

You're observations that going from 75-200 watts didn't change things much are correct, doubling power only gives you a maximum of 3dB more output, so going from 75-200 watts only gave you about 4dB at best more SPL, it's noticeable if you push them to their limits, but you should not have noticed a huge difference.

Some of the comments about environmental issues could be worth looking into, besides being separated from the surround, are the cones warped at all? Also, how are you mounting the mids to the door, do you have a solid, flat baffle that they are attached to?

There seems to be something causing premature failure, considering how many you've ruined so far. If all of them have failed the same way by having the cone separate from the surround, then I would suspect glue failure, or over excursion, maybe a combination of both. Over excursion would mean that you're pushing them too hard, so you'd need to find a safer HPF, or keep the volume lower. Glue failure could be a manufacture defect, but if you've tried different brands, and had the same issue, that seems unlikely. Has there been rust on the magnets, terminals, and tinsel leads of the failed woofers?

I honestly don’t know the slope, I never changed anything on my deck. I just set all the crossovers and left everything flat, didn’t touch anything else. So whatever the 80prs default setting is would be what the slopes set at. I’m good at installing things but I’m completely clueless when it comes to tuning. This was my first active setup and I was just going to let someone else tune it but it sounded good to me flat so I just left it.

Also, here is how they are mounted. They appear very clean with no water damage or surface rust or anything. I’m not seeing weather damage anywhere unless just the drastic temp differences just make the surrounds brittle over time. It does take like a year typically for them to go out.

gijoe 06-14-2019 03:45 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Set the slope at 24dB/octave on both the sub and midbass.

ckirocz28 06-14-2019 04:10 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
I don't think too much power is gonna be the issue, clipping maybe, but not power. Probably not heat, either, I live in Alabama and my 6 1/2's are mounted in the dash in a non air conditioned black car with a black dash. Maybe cold combined with cranking up the volume when cold. Are you using any boost on the eq? The 80prs is only clean at max volume without eq boost.

dumdum 06-14-2019 06:22 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Honduh (Post 5712917)
I honestly donít know the slope, I never changed anything on my deck. I just set all the crossovers and left everything flat, didnít touch anything else. So whatever the 80prs default setting is would be what the slopes set at. Iím good at installing things but Iím completely clueless when it comes to tuning. This was my first active setup and I was just going to let someone else tune it but it sounded good to me flat so I just left it.

Also, here is how they are mounted. They appear very clean with no water damage or surface rust or anything. Iím not seeing weather damage anywhere unless just the drastic temp differences just make the surrounds brittle over time. It does take like a year typically for them to go out.

Default slope is 0db an no crossover on my pioneer da-230, if yours is the same that could well be your issue, but double check and set them to 24db/octave for subs and your mids 👍🏼

dealer 06-21-2019 04:12 AM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
It sounds like what you want from the speakers, true spectacular impact in the range between the sub and the mid is lacking and you are pushing them to make the sound you want. That is why the little difference between 75 and 200 watts, you are already at maximum performance of the speaker. Maybe you could go to something like a 7" dynaudio,
Esotec MW 172 if you can fit it. You need more cone area and excursion capability to produce that illusive mid-bass. Floor pod enclosures with the above mentioned speakers were able to be mistaken for the subs being on, to most people, in a Honda I built. It had one soundstream 404 bridged to each pod tweeter/mid 200rms each. Customer was distortion abusive and they held up in Florida. He threw them out of the gap and stuck the voice coil :o, I realigned the coil into the gap and limited the throw with settings, no more problems.;)

Holmz 06-21-2019 05:40 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dumdum (Post 5713033)
Default slope is 0db an no crossover on my pioneer da-230, if yours is the same that could well be your issue, but double check and set them to 24db/octave for subs and your mids 👍🏼

Dumdum has a valid observation...
0dB slope would certainly cause problems.
A scope on the speaker terminals would also show what they are seeing.

A lot of theories have been chucked out.

At this point a way to work through the theories one by one is probably a better approach than trying another set of speakers.

An untrue observation example is the rainfall theory...

Quote:

Originally Posted by diy.phil (Post 5712839)
You guys get rain in Spokane every other hour. The last time I was there it was snowing too. I'm thinking the weather caused these speaker problems. Would you like to try some marine-rated speakers?

From recollection Spokane is on the leeward side of the range. The coastal side is a rain forest, and the leeward side is a desert. I do not recall it raining much, but some meteorological metrics can give insight into whether moisture could even be an issue?
https://www.usclimatedata.com/climat...tates/uswa0422
A desert in Washington is defined as <10" of rain, and Spokane gets 16" yearly on average.
The rain forest gets ~150" of yearly rain.

We could probably chuck out aliens as an a theory, as WA has higher than average alien abduction reports... which is also not likely the mechanism for speaker failure.

ckirocz28 06-21-2019 05:48 PM

Re: Why do my speakers keep failing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Holmz (Post 5715589)
We could probably chuck out aliens as an a theory, as WA has higher than average alien abduction reports... which is also not likely the mechanism for speaker failure.

Maybe he's kicking and screaming when they drag him out of the car, kicks the crap out of a speaker on the way out:)


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