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Old 06-14-2019   #1
 
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Default I think I blew my new subwoofer

Last night I finished building the box for my new sub. I got the 1 ft3 knock down box from parts Express (Link) with the Dayton Audio RSS265HO-44 10" (Link). It's being powered by the Rockford Fosgate Prime R1200-1D (Link).

I put everything in my car last night and went on a ~25 minute test drive and it sounded awesome. Today, I took a ~4 hour drive in the car, but roughly halfway through I noticed the bass was gone. I stopped at the next rest stop during the drive and after touching the cone of the subwoofer I felt that it was quite hot. The amp was even hotter, and the red light on the amp was on, indicating protect mode (overheat or short circuit).

After realizing my components were overheating, I immediately pulled the fuse from under the hood to limit any further damage. I then measured the terminals of the subwoofer, and one voice coil was measuring at ~2.1 ohms, while the other was measuring at ~1.6 ohms. Based on the resistance measurement of the subwoofer, I already know it's blown.

My main question is where do I go from here? I'm not sure what went wrong. Both the amp and sub are new -- I imagine the original problem could be a problem with either -- either the amp killed the sub or the sub was faulty to begin with.

I am quite dissapointed with this, since the sub sounded so nice while it worked. I am also quite confused since the subwoofer is rated for 600W, my amplifier can push 600W at 2 ohms (the subwoofer was wired in parallel), and the gain of the amp was around 3/11. I also don't think this is a problem with over-excursion or clipping, since the subwoofer was putting out clean sound all the way up to when it stopped. Furthermore, when I push down on the cone with on both sides, it is a firm and smooth motion just like it arrived new. It doesn't seem like there is any damage to the mechanical part of the sub, just something about the voice coils themselves.

I'm sure the quality of construction of the box was quite nice. I put a lot of effort into putting together the box, so I'm almost positive the box is not a factor.

I haven't tried to power up the sub and amp again since I am afraid that I may further damage something. I am mainly looking for advice on where to go from there.

Sorry for the wall of text, I just want to make sure I provide enough information.

Thanks
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Old 06-14-2019   #2
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtvd78 View Post
Last night I finished building the box for my new sub. I got the 1 ft3 knock down box from parts Express (Link) with the Dayton Audio RSS265HO-44 10" (Link). It's being powered by the Rockford Fosgate Prime R1200-1D (Link).



I put everything in my car last night and went on a ~25 minute test drive and it sounded awesome. Today, I took a ~4 hour drive in the car, but roughly halfway through I noticed the bass was gone. I stopped at the next rest stop during the drive and after touching the cone of the subwoofer I felt that it was quite hot. The amp was even hotter, and the red light on the amp was on, indicating protect mode (overheat or short circuit).



After realizing my components were overheating, I immediately pulled the fuse from under the hood to limit any further damage. I then measured the terminals of the subwoofer, and one voice coil was measuring at ~2.1 ohms, while the other was measuring at ~1.6 ohms. Based on the resistance measurement of the subwoofer, I already know it's blown.



My main question is where do I go from here? I'm not sure what went wrong. Both the amp and sub are new -- I imagine the original problem could be a problem with either -- either the amp killed the sub or the sub was faulty to begin with.



I am quite dissapointed with this, since the sub sounded so nice while it worked. I am also quite confused since the subwoofer is rated for 600W, my amplifier can push 600W at 2 ohms (the subwoofer was wired in parallel), and the gain of the amp was around 3/11. I also don't think this is a problem with over-excursion or clipping, since the subwoofer was putting out clean sound all the way up to when it stopped. Furthermore, when I push down on the cone with on both sides, it is a firm and smooth motion just like it arrived new. It doesn't seem like there is any damage to the mechanical part of the sub, just something about the voice coils themselves.



I'm sure the quality of construction of the box was quite nice. I put a lot of effort into putting together the box, so I'm almost positive the box is not a factor.



I haven't tried to power up the sub and amp again since I am afraid that I may further damage something. I am mainly looking for advice on where to go from there.



Sorry for the wall of text, I just want to make sure I provide enough information.



Thanks
Try another speaker at very low volume on your amp to test it. It's likely you burned the lacquer insulation on the voice coil wire, causing a short. Hopefully your amp wasn't damaged.
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Old 06-14-2019   #3
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

Update: It's my fault everything's broken. I went back to my car and put the fuse back in to get more information about the problem. Turns out the gain wasn't at 3/11 but more like 10.5/11. Stupid mistake, I know, and my stupidity broke everything.

The sub's voice coils were at ~4.1 when I got it new, now they're each around 2 ohms. Also, the amp's protection light remains red no matter if the sub is connected and disconnected, the bass boost knob flashes instead of staying constant, and the sub does this slow moving thing.

See the results of me not thinking:
https://imgur.com/a/z3YDWX5

I'm convinced the amp is a gonner. It won't power up properly. I'm not sure if the sub's movement like that is part of the amp being broken or if the resistance of the coils is evidence that it is broken as well.

Either way, I'm gonna need some new stuff. Is any of this kind of stuff (negligence) covered under warranty or am I on my own here.
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Old 06-14-2019   #4
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

The thing here is that setting the gain wrong should not blow the sub or the amp if as you said it sounded great. My guess is it maybe didn't sound great but it just made a lot of noise and hit hard?

The box you put it in was double the recommended box size...i think that is what killed the sub, and in turn the sub may have taken the amp with it. You can over drive a sub in a box that is too big...its the same as putting two subs in the same box and when one dies the other is now in a box too big for it and can fail too.

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Old 06-14-2019   #5
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

negligence is never covered but just having just bought it might garner some discount if you talk to the right places

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Old 06-14-2019   #6
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

Quote:
Originally Posted by miniSQ View Post
The box you put it in was double the recommended box size...i think that is what killed the sub, and in turn the sub may have taken the amp with it. You can over drive a sub in a box that is too big...
Agreed. Box was too big which decreases the power handling of the subwoofer. You fried the voice coils and short circuited the amplifier...

However, that amplifier has "Short circuit protection that shut downs the amplifier in case of very low impedance or shorted speaker wires". So turn your car off (or pull the stereo fuse), unhook that subwoofer, and turn your stereo back on. The amplifier should reset somehow, BUT UNPLUG THAT SUB and leave it unplugged! Worst case scenario is you fried the amplifier too... if that light keeps blinking with the sub disconnected then you fried the amp.

"Is any of this kind of stuff (negligence) covered under warranty or am I on my own here." Not covered, unless you lie.

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Old 06-14-2019   #7
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

If the box caused this, parts express advertises that box for that sub on their site. They should honor the warranty.
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Old 06-14-2019   #8
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

Quote:
Originally Posted by XSVTOYZ View Post
negligence is never covered but just having just bought it might garner some discount if you talk to the right places
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanadian-kaos View Post
Agreed. Box was too big which decreases the power handling of the subwoofer. You fried the voice coils and short circuited the amplifier...

However, that amplifier has "Short circuit protection that shut downs the amplifier in case of very low impedance or shorted speaker wires". So turn your car off (or pull the stereo fuse), unhook that subwoofer, and turn your stereo back on. The amplifier should reset somehow, BUT UNPLUG THAT SUB and leave it unplugged! Worst case scenario is you fried the amplifier too... if that light keeps blinking with the sub disconnected then you fried the amp.

"Is any of this kind of stuff (negligence) covered under warranty or am I on my own here." Not covered, unless you lie.
With the RCA, bass boost knob, and speaker wires disconnected from the amp, it remains in protection mode. The voltage at the B+/GND terminals on the amp is ~12.3V when the engine is off.

Even if I was pushing the amp too hard and the speaker blew causing a short, shouldn't the amp protect itself from shorts? Or if it overheated, shouldn't it go into protection and shut itself off? The manual states: "Protect/Thermal LED illuminates red when amplifier overheats or short
circuits. The amplifier will automatically shut down if this occurs". Based on that, I don't see why the amp just doesn't work anymore unless the protection circuitry isn't very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot83 View Post
If the box caused this, parts express advertises that box for that sub on their site. They should honor the warranty.
Like what Patriot said, Parts Express does claim the box is made for the Dayton HO subwoofers. Granted, the box advertises that it's built for the RSS265HO-4, and not the RSS265HO-44, which I have, but the RSS265HO-4's recommended enclosure size is 0.44 ft^3, even smaller than the RSS265HO-44's .55 ft^3 recommendation.

How could parts express advertise a 1 ft^3 box for the RSS265HO-4 if in reality it's not good for the sub? Further, when I model the RSS265HO-44 in WinISD, it recommends a 0.989 ft^3 box for a .707 Q. If this is the case, where does Parts Express get the .55 ft^3 recommended box size from?
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Old 06-15-2019   #9
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtvd78 View Post
With the RCA, bass boost knob, and speaker wires disconnected from the amp, it remains in protection mode. The voltage at the B+/GND terminals on the amp is ~12.3V when the engine is off.

Even if I was pushing the amp too hard and the speaker blew causing a short, shouldn't the amp protect itself from shorts? Or if it overheated, shouldn't it go into protection and shut itself off? The manual states: "Protect/Thermal LED illuminates red when amplifier overheats or short
circuits. The amplifier will automatically shut down if this occurs". Based on that, I don't see why the amp just doesn't work anymore unless the protection circuitry isn't very good.



Like what Patriot said, Parts Express does claim the box is made for the Dayton HO subwoofers. Granted, the box advertises that it's built for the RSS265HO-4, and not the RSS265HO-44, which I have, but the RSS265HO-4's recommended enclosure size is 0.44 ft^3, even smaller than the RSS265HO-44's .55 ft^3 recommendation.

How could parts express advertise a 1 ft^3 box for the RSS265HO-4 if in reality it's not good for the sub? Further, when I model the RSS265HO-44 in WinISD, it recommends a 0.989 ft^3 box for a .707 Q. If this is the case, where does Parts Express get the .55 ft^3 recommended box size from?
Call them and ask them that question.

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Old 06-15-2019   #10
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

You put too much power on a subwoofer in a larger than recommended box. The box warranty is not or should not cover that. The protection circuit for the amplifier should have protected the amplifier however and since you just bought the amplifier you may be able to get it swapped for a new one under warranty. I would read Dayton Audioís warranty too as I think itís 5 years but usually overpowering and burning a voice coil is not covered.

I can only imagine you had this thing really cranking loud for a long period of time to get the cone so hot and to burn those coils. Also make sure you have the correct power wiring configuration and wire size with solid grounding point feeding that amplifier. If you donít this could fry both the amplifier and subwoofer with it.

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Old 06-15-2019   #11
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

Also, key-off/resting voltage of just ~12.3 raises a few flags.
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Old 06-15-2019   #12
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

[QUOTE=jtvd78;5713129
How could parts express advertise a 1 ft^3 box for the RSS265HO-4 if in reality it's not good for the sub? Further, when I model the RSS265HO-44 in WinISD, it recommends a 0.989 ft^3 box for a .707 Q. If this is the case, where does Parts Express get the .55 ft^3 recommended box size from?[/QUOTE]

That box is good for that sub, but a larger box will reduce power handling. People want smaller boxes to save space, so they suggest a smaller box because that's what people want. A larger box will sound better, but again, you lose power handling, which they assume most of their customers know already. Parts Express caters mainly to hobbyists who have a higher then average knowledge of these things. Pretty much all manufactures suggest smaller than ideal boxes so that they don't lose business from people who want tiny boxes. A larger box smooths the response, and gives you more low end. A smaller box will typically be peaky and not play as low, but the smaller air space controls the cone better, so you can throw more power at them. Don't confuse power handling with SPL, however, the larger box won't handle as much power, but it won't need to in order to reach the same SPL, it will get just as loud off of less power since the box isn't restricting the movement of the cone as much.
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Old 06-15-2019   #13
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

jtvd78,

We are all just trying to help you out not knowing what your actual knowledge base is. These is a lot of good people on this forum! Grinder and gijoe bring up very good points so you may want to look into it. Also, manufacturers base power handling limits on a lot of different things and some are more forgiving than others. Often the power handling limits are actually thermal limits of the voice coil themselves and when you use a smaller box, the extra power needed to overcome the increase air resistance can cause the voice coil to heat up more. Also, manufacturers often suggest smaller boxes for auto sound subwoofers because they take into account the typical cabin gain around 45-50 Hz you get that actually boosts the low end thus compensating for the bass roll off caused by the smaller box.

In a sealed box you can get more subwoofer cone excursion to get the same output as compared to a properly ported box with a subsonic filter and the ideal tuning frequency. If you want more SPL on the same power than you canít beat a properly set up ported configuration for that and because cone excursion is kept in check at and near the fb of the box you can get very low distortion compared to a sealed box with a cone that is reaching near or at Xmax during spirited play. Another way to get more SPL is to increase cone area. This could be two subwoofers or one much larger subwoofer that doesnít have to move as much cone to move the same air volume. Youíll get very good SQ and good SPL too. Some guys use these methods with very inexpensive drivers and get surprisingly good sound. The key is to work well within the limits of the driver to get what you want.

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Old 06-15-2019   #14
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Default I think I blew my new subwoofer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCsAudio View Post
jtvd78,



We are all just trying to help you out not knowing what your actual knowledge base is. These is a lot of good people on this forum! Grinder and gijoe bring up very good points so you may want to look into it. Also, manufacturers base power handling limits on a lot of different things and some are more forgiving than others. Often the power handling limits are actually thermal limits of the voice coil themselves and when you use a smaller box, the extra power needed to overcome the increase air resistance can cause the voice coil to heat up more. Also, manufacturers often suggest smaller boxes for auto sound subwoofers because they take into account the typical cabin gain around 45-50 Hz you get that actually boosts the low end thus compensating for the bass roll off caused by the smaller box.



In a sealed box you can get more subwoofer cone excursion to get the same output as compared to a properly ported box with a subsonic filter and the ideal tuning frequency. If you want more SPL on the same power than you canít beat a properly set up ported configuration for that and because cone excursion is kept in check at and near the fb of the box you can get very low distortion compared to a sealed box with a cone that is reaching near or at Xmax during spirited play. Another way to get more SPL is to increase cone area. This could be two subwoofers or one much larger subwoofer that doesnít have to move as much cone to move the same air volume. Youíll get very good SQ and good SPL too. Some guys use these methods with very inexpensive drivers and get surprisingly good sound. The key is to work well within the limits of the driver to get what you want.


I think jc has made alot of great points on all of his post; we are all here to help. I just go back again to what JC said i cant imagine how long and how hard you were running these babies to burn the voice coils out. If u r looking to ďget loudĒ u can do that but u have to properly set your gains. Again we are here to help


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Old 06-15-2019   #15
 
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Default Re: I think I blew my new subwoofer

I suppose it's also worth mentioning that the characteristic Dayton RSS low-distortion sound might have been a major contributing factor to such abuse.
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