3-Way Active-Don't wait - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 1 Week Ago   #1
 
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Default 3-Way Active-Don't wait

Still new to all of this but wanted to finally see what an 'active system' was all about...well damn I should have done this years ago as its a night and day difference imho.

I have some good to decent gear but the next goal will be a DSP and likely the Dayton one.

Hybrid Audio Clarus- C61-2 6.5-inch Woofer
Pioneer P.R.O. series TS-B350PRO bullet tweeter-For the door
Eminence Alpha 4 - 4 ohm-For the dash
Parts Express 800-5 kHz Band Pass 4 Ohm Crossover
Rockford Fosgate P500X2-For the 6.5 woofer
Rockville RXD-F30-For the pioneer and Eminence Midrange
Boss Audio BX55 2/3-Way Pre-Amp Electronic Crossover-bandpass the 6.5 and Sub

On account of not having the ideal parts I used the Boss band pass crossover on the Clarus and have it set for 65 hz - 800 khz

Got a passive bandpass crossover from Parts Express for the Eminence Midrange 800 hz - 5000 khz

The Pioneer tweeter is being run straight off the Rockville amp as I ran into some weird interference when I tried to run it through the Boss crossover.

Anyhow I am astounded at the difference of this setup compared to using just the Clarus component set and all I have done is the crossovers and of course the 10 band eq on my Kenwood deck.

Did this post mainly for new people like me that might be wondering about 'active setups' but if you love music you have to go active.

I can only imagine what it will sound like with the Dayton DSP incorporated into the system.

As an aside I remember many on here not liking the Clarus midbass...I can't honestly imagine how the Audio Frogs and Stereo Integrity sound vastly superior to this Hybrid Audio Clarus midbass but if they are then I guess I have an upgrade path.
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Default

For 1 thing I'd swap those bullet tweeters out right away

Second the clarus mids are ok at best. The stereo integrity are actually nice but the audio frog gb60s will blow both out of the water
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Old 1 Week Ago   #3
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

theres nothing special about an active system without actually having signal delay or per channel eq.. Just you wait

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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

Yeah, you just wait until you start spending thousands and thousands on perfecting car audio. LOL!

But yeah the journey of incremental improvements and getting near the end of the road, priceless.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #5
 
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

Another victim down the rabbit hole of SQ, he he comes.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #6
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

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Originally Posted by ToNasty View Post
For 1 thing I'd swap those bullet tweeters out right away

Second the clarus mids are ok at best. The stereo integrity are actually nice but the audio frog gb60s will blow both out of the water
Not sure about "blowing them out of the water". I would drop the bullets, though.

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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

Hi. My name is Danny and I'm an Audioholic!...

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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

"Another victim down the rabbit hole of SQ, he he comes."

Absolutely, nothing besides I suppose sex and the right kind of 'extras' after work makes me happier...actually come to think of it the 'extras' and headphones make me even happier.


"But yeah the journey of incremental improvements and getting near the end of the road, priceless."

Money alone is dictating this lol.


"theres nothing special about an active system without actually having signal delay or per channel eq.. Just you wait"

I can't wait for this, well I can as I decided to wait for the Dayton dsp before going further. My Kenwood X702 has the time delay feature but have never sat down, as of yet to get an understanding of how it all works.

You wouldn't know of a tutorial anywhere that will give me the basics and then use my ears for the rest?

Oh and so far as the bullet tweeters go...would I be better off just putting the Hybrid Audio tweets back in?
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

The rabbit hole is deep and hard to get out of. It will only get as expensive as you let it. Some people have most likely over $20000 worth of equipment in their SQ comp ride. That's more than I paid for my truck and it was nearly brand new at the time of purchase! You can get GREAT sound for under $2000. You just need a good processor and source unit to build around.

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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

check out the minidsp 6x8 best featured DSP for the $275 price tag. basically the same as the JL TWK88 but also has the ability to integrate with an rta mic with the free minidsp software

get the DSP, and a digital source signal for it, before changing any speakers.

you'll be blown away by the difference in dynamic range, staging and realism after its properly tuned
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

^^^Good Advice, although a Digital Signal isn't necessary to have good sound and won't actually make any difference as long as you don't have noise with analog.

Also might want to check out a use Helix DSP.

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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

I agree, get the DSP first and learn how to tune before you go down the other rabbit hole of changing speakers. That rabbit hole is an expensive one with diminishing returns but the DSP rabbit hole offers massive gains in SQ with proper tuning using a microphone and RTA such as Umik Microphone and REW or AudioFrog microphone (better) and REW. The Dayton DSP is good but tougher to master for a beginner than say a JL TwK88 for example (I have both). Never tried the Mini DSP and everyone on here loves the Helix units but they are pro level with a pro level price tag too so maybe not the best one to start with just yet.

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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarGuru View Post
check out the minidsp 6x8 best featured DSP for the $275 price tag. basically the same as the JL TWK88 but also has the ability to integrate with an rta mic with the free minidsp software

get the DSP, and a digital source signal for it, before changing any speakers.

you'll be blown away by the difference in dynamic range, staging and realism after its properly tuned
Thank you all for the advice and seeing as I have bought the RTA software already and have a decent internal dac on my LG G7 One I'll look into getting this.

I have never done it yet but when you talk about being 'blown away' I very much understand that as I'm the type of person that just a little upgrade makes me happy and I notice it and can appreciate it even if others say I'm nuts lol.
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
The rabbit hole is deep and hard to get out of. It will only get as expensive as you let it. Some people have most likely over $20000 worth of equipment in their SQ comp ride. That's more than I paid for my truck and it was nearly brand new at the time of purchase! You can get GREAT sound for under $2000. You just need a good processor and source unit to build around.
I truly believe this as well and will offer my help to friends and family once I learn more about how to get the best out of the equipment I have, or friends and family have for example.


After source unit though I'm genuinely curious as to whats more important, install or speakers?

For instance can speakers alone make up for a 'bad install'?
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I’m a firm believer in bypassing the source (phone) DAC and minimizing as many DAC conversions within the system as possible. Some don’t place as much importance on this step as I do.

I personally use Tidal Hi-Fi on my iPhone streaming Bluetooth to an Audioengine B1 that sends digital optical to my DSP. The first system I used this setup for realized a huge difference in Signal to Noise and noise floor. I haven’t turned back since.

I remember first doing this and found my aluminum-magnesium Focal tweeters far less fatiguing during long drives with digital source vs analog. I had an Alpine CDA-117 before going digital.
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The weakest link in your system will shine through during and after tuning. Something will be lacking and you’ll have to experiment with both install and new drivers
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

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Originally Posted by CarGuru View Post
Iím a firm believer in bypassing the source (phone) DAC and minimizing as many DAC conversions within the system as possible. Some donít place as much importance on this step as I do.

I personally use Tidal Hi-Fi on my iPhone streaming Bluetooth to an Audioengine B1 that sends digital optical to my DSP. The first system I used this setup for realized a huge difference in Signal to Noise and noise floor. I havenít turned back since.

I remember first doing this and found my aluminum-magnesium Focal tweeters far less fatiguing during long drives with digital source vs analog. I had an Alpine CDA-117 before going digital.
I have been debating test driving Tidal HiFi and using Usb Audio Player Pro and its built in "direct' mode accessing My LG G7 32 bit internal dac...plus it plays DSD through Usb player.
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

I would rather have a good dsp and budget sb acoustics drivers and some zapco budget amplifiers than high end drivers and no processing .

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I second the Mini-6x8......great little processor for a reasonable price.

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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

I remember when I first calibrated my car with the JL Audio fix86 for the first time how much better it sounded. I am using the OEM HU though as I my car needs a lot o customization for an aftermarket. I think you will be really pleased after getting a DSP. Unfortunately for me my fix86 just started malfunctioning (no output out of channel 1) one month after the 2 year warranty ran out and I have to pay $150 to get it repaired by JL. That had me looking into the Dayton and many others. After a little bit of reading up I decided to stick with the fix86 and get it repaired because honestly for a car audio noob like myself the user interface is just really simple.
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

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Originally Posted by credible View Post
I truly believe this as well and will offer my help to friends and family once I learn more about how to get the best out of the equipment I have, or friends and family have for example.


After source unit though I'm genuinely curious as to whats more important, install or speakers?

For instance can speakers alone make up for a 'bad install'?
Basic middle of the road and even entry level speakers will sound way better with a good install than top of the line speakers with a bad install. With car audio it's my opinion that how well the speakers are installed is far more important than how "good" the speakers are.

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Old 4 Days Ago   #22
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Default Re: 3-Way Active-Don't wait

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Basic middle of the road and even entry level speakers will sound way better with a good install than top of the line speakers with a bad install. With car audio it's my opinion that how well the speakers are installed is far more important than how "good" the speakers are.
I agree in principle. But this idea that entry-level speakers will sound way better in a "good install" versus top-shelf stuff in a "bad install" is a bit of an audio trope. I want to add some scaffolding around the terms "good install" and "bad install".

There are multiple things that contribute to a good install, among these include:

1. Discovery (needs, project constraints, budget, and sacrifices you'll make to stay within budgets and constraints)
2. Driver Selection (+ overall system planning)
3. Installation
4. Tuning

If you manage to screw up any of #2-4 then you will have an audio system which is far below its potential. In the situation of using top-shelf drivers; if you have them playing outside of their intended passband, at power levels that are wrong, and in an unsealed enclosure (or door) that's leaking in a way which creates cancellation, plus with no tuning or time alignment, then it will sound like trash.

If you have cheaper drivers which are selected with good THD performance within their used passband, have good QTC characteristics (as needed) in the expected enclosure / door size, have back waves sealed off, and have clean power in the amount needed for your listening preferences and without overloading the driver's thermal or mechanical capabilities, good timbre matching between all drivers, plus you have in-car resonances taken care of, and a good tune, then yes it should absolutely sound better than the "top shelf, poorly-installed" drivers.

In reality, usually, you're somewhere between the two extremes. In that zone, the largest contributor to your stereo's distortion is going to be from the speaker drivers themselves. That's a fact. This is not to say that you need expensive drivers though. You just need to know enough to select the right drivers for the passband and application you're going to use them in. If you can do that, you can find drivers that do what they need to do well, for an "affordable" price.

Will two perfectly executed installations, one entry-level and one top-shelf level both sound the same? Absolutely not. The top shelf one will sound better. Obviously. But the differences will be much more subtle than expected, and you might not think it's worth the 3-10x price difference. But that's the difference between the hobbyists who are chasing that last 5-10% and are willing to pay top dollar to gain a little bit more perfection for their system.

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