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Old 1 Week Ago   #1
 
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Default Sub loudness.

I've been reading about different subs over the past week and I've seen people say sub X is louder than sub Y. How are you able to tell without listening to it? I did a quick search if you can tell by sensitivity and most said that's marketing.

So if I were choosing between the 4 10" subs below, which would be the quietest so to speak. I'm looking for a single 10" to blend in well with my stock JBL system. I'll be using a JL 500/1 V2 to power it and running it at 4ohm.

10W3v3-4
AF GB10D2
IDQ10 V.4 (D2)
HAT Clarus C10SW (D2)
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Old 1 Week Ago   #2
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Why in the world would you want the quietest?

You can plug the TS parameters into modeling programs like WinISD to get the predicted response. You can then change the size and type of enclosure so that you can see how a particular box will affect the response from the sub.
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Why in the world would you want the quietest?
Because I have a stock system and have no intentions of upgrading any of the other speakers except the sub so why would I want or need a loud sub?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
You can plug the TS parameters into modeling programs like WinISD to get the predicted response. You can then change the size and type of enclosure so that you can see how a particular box will affect the response from the sub.
I already tried over a few days and I don't understand it and it always says the parameters are wrong, even on their own pre-loaded specs so I gave up trying to use it.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #4
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Get whichever one you want and adjust the gain on the amp to make sure it's not too loud.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #5
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquahallic View Post
Because I have a stock system and have no intentions of upgrading any of the other speakers except the sub so why would I want or need a loud sub?




I already tried over a few days and I don't understand it and it always says the parameters are wrong, even on their own pre-loaded specs so I gave up trying to use it.
Choose the sub that is the best fit for the enclosure you want to use. A loud sub can easily be turned down to match the rest of the system. Pick the best sub for the size and type of enclosure you are planning to use.

Are you building your own box, or using a pre-fab? Are you going sealed, or ported, or trying to make IB work? How much space are you willing to give up?
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Choose the sub that is the best fit for the enclosure you want to use. A loud sub can easily be turned down to match the rest of the system. Pick the best sub for the size and type of enclosure you are planning to use.
I read so much on here how the gain is not a volume control but you're both telling me to use it as a volume knob to turn the sub down? Maybe I'm missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Are you building your own box, or using a pre-fab? Are you going sealed, or ported, or trying to make IB work? How much space are you willing to give up?
Space is not an issue at all, it's going in a 2nd gen Sequoia. I already tried a 12W3v3-4 in a ported box and hated the boominess. I'm going with a sealed enclosure this time. I read to aim for a QTC of .707 so I'll have the enclosure made close to that or slightly below that.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #7
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquahallic View Post
I read so much on here how the gain is not a volume control but you're both telling me to use it as a volume knob to turn the sub down? Maybe I'm missing something?



Space is not an issue at all, it's going in a 2nd gen Sequoia. I already tried a 12W3v3-4 in a ported box and hated the boominess. I'm going with a sealed enclosure this time. I read to aim for a QTC of .707 so I'll have the enclosure made close to that or slightly below that.
The idea that gain isn't a volume knob has been really misunderstood and misrepresented by people who don't understand it well enough to explain it. It's easier to say "the gain isn't a volume knob" than it is recognize that's exactly what it is, but still needs to be used correctly.

The gain IS a volume knob, it just needs to be used a bit differently than the volume knob on your head unit, when there are multiple gains (the head unit volume, and amp gain knob) one is set and pretty much left alone, while the other is used for fine tuning. Both do the same thing though, they increase the voltage. The amp gain can be adjusted to a particular output, it won't put out full power unless you ask it to. Start with the gain low, and raise it until you have the output you want (keeping it within the limits of your sub and amp, obviously).
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Old 1 Week Ago   #8
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquahallic View Post
...

...I already tried a 12W3v3-4 in a ported box and hated the boominess. I'm going with a sealed enclosure this time. I read to aim for a QTC of .707 so I'll have the enclosure made close to that or slightly below that.
Ported boxes can be made not to Be boomy.
But the sealed does have better group delay and transient response.

However you may still need a DSP to make it flat to counteract the vehicle gain.
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
Ported boxes can be made not to Be boomy.
But the sealed does have better group delay and transient response.

However you may still need a DSP to make it flat to counteract the vehicle gain.
If needed I'm going to get a Audiocontrol EQ where I can adjust different sub frequencies.





So I think I'm going with the AF GB10D4.

They recommend a .6cuft enclosure but everyone usually says to go a little bit bigger in a sealed box. Between the two boxes below will there be any noticeable difference?

1.11cuft
QTC .692 / F3 45.27Hz.

.6cuft
QTC .822 / F3 46.25Hz.
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquahallic View Post
If needed I'm going to get a Audiocontrol EQ where I can adjust different sub frequencies.





So I think I'm going with the AF GB10D4.

They recommend a .6cuft enclosure but everyone usually says to go a little bit bigger in a sealed box. Between the two boxes below will there be any noticeable difference?

1.11cuft
QTC .692 / F3 45.27Hz.

.6cuft
QTC .822 / F3 46.25Hz.
Ran the model for you since there was a ton of subwoofer questions today and I had the program open. Small box yellow vs larger box purple. Not much of a difference so I would go with the largest box size that doesn't interfere with your cargo area. The difference is 1.3 db at 35 Hz which is small. The GB10 is a good choice.

GB10 .6 sealed vs GB10 1.11 sealed.png

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Last edited by JCsAudio; 1 Week Ago at 07:54 PM..
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

wow I realize research is good and all but seriously there is a reason for a bass knob
I made mine very noticeable but it isnt ugly
drilled one hole and a knob not frills discreet but in the open
once you have a good sounding sub and understand every song has a different sweet spot for how much bass you will "get" it
your question might be better phrased as which sub and box will give me easy tuning and a good sound at moderate power

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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCsAudio View Post
Ran the model for you since there was a ton of subwoofer questions today and I had the program open. Small box yellow vs larger box purple. Not much of a difference so I would go with the largest box size that doesn't interfere with your cargo area. The difference is 1.3 db at 35 Hz which is small. The GB10 is a good choice.

Attachment 251473
OK, thanks. I tried WinISD again and got pretty much the same results with the AF.
Audiofrog in 1.1cuft is green
12W3v3-4 is red
IDQ10D2 v4 is blue


So to answer my own question, which is why I started this thread, based on the chart above would the Audiofrog be the quietest between the 3 on the chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XSVTOYZ View Post
wow I realize research is good and all but seriously there is a reason for a bass knob
I made mine very noticeable but it isnt ugly
drilled one hole and a knob not frills discreet but in the open
once you have a good sounding sub and understand every song has a different sweet spot for how much bass you will "get" it
your question might be better phrased as which sub and box will give me easy tuning and a good sound at moderate power
I've had this amp in 3 different setups and never needed the knob.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #13
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Without knowing what data you used to make those FR graphs, yes the Audio Frog is the quietest of the bunch. It also falls off faster on the low end, which is not ideal. Based on those graphs the bigger 12w3 is the clear winner. Get the more capable sub, and turn the gain down to match the front speakers.
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Default Re: Sub loudness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Without knowing what data you used to make those FR graphs, yes the Audio Frog is the quietest of the bunch. It also falls off faster on the low end, which is not ideal. Based on those graphs the bigger 12w3 is the clear winner. Get the more capable sub, and turn the gain down to match the front speakers.
I got the data straight from Audiofrog, JL and IDs website.


I ran a new one and the 10W3v3-4 is pretty much identical to the AF. WinISD recommended ported for all except the IDQ. But to get .705 for the IDQ I needed a box that's 7.513cuft. Space isn't an issue but that's crazy so I put 2cuft, going up to 3 was minimal.

AF GB10D4 is green (1.167cuft / 45Hz / .704)
10W3v3-4 is red (1.111 cuft / 46.39Hz / .704)
IDQ10D2 v-4 is blue (2cuft / 40.07 / .845)




Over the years I've ran CV, RF, JL, Kicker and Pioneer subs. I really wanted to try something not main stream this go around but I think I'm going with the JL. The AF is a lot more efficient but their specs on paper are so similar and the AF is double the price; $600 vs $300. Since I'm running stock speakers I doubt I'll hear or notice that extra $300 in SQ.

I appreciate the help everyone!
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