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Old 01-22-2007   #51
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkZ
You're feeding off a 12v source no matter what, that's correct. But amplifiers convert that 12v into a higher voltage in order to achieve greater amounts of power. This requires a more complex and sizable power supply in the amp, which tends to take up about 1/4 of the total real estate in a typical amplifier (and about half of the heatsink). So it's not exactly trivial to stick a power supply that does that into something small and confined like a head unit, which is why most head units out there were faced with that 12v limit.
Oh, I see. I got confused there. My thinking was just that the power supply's ability to convert to the higher voltage was the main factor in difficulty, and therefore, cost. See, even if you're allowing for these monster supplies, you're still saving money and trouble by just building 4ohm speakers (all things being equal, obviously). Or at least that's what I always assumed.

ETA: This, of course, compared to home application where you're working with voltages sufficiently high to make this sort of thing moot.
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Old 01-23-2007   #52
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattinTheCrown
ETA: This, of course, compared to home application where you're working with voltages sufficiently high to make this sort of thing moot.

Yes but you are still faced with the voltage limits of the semiconductors in the amplifiers. Car amps run at nearly the same rail voltages as home amps if not more. Not until you get intop pro amps do you see the mondo rail voltages (like 180V rail to rail) in a Crest Audio big boy 01 series, get out your wallet though.

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Old 01-28-2007   #53
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

I think I have got this figured out, but I want to make sure. I was thinking about buying SEAS Lotus Reference speakers for a 3 way set up. I was going to buy the RW165/1 6.5" for midbass and the RM110 4.5" for midrange. These have slmost the exact same specs at the SEAS Excel W18 and W12. Since I havent been able to find the Lotus midrange, I would be able to use the Excel midrange and midbass instead? Each midbass would be recieving 150W RMS and 75 W RMS to each midrange (4 Ohm rating).

Also, at this power would I be able to use the W22 instead of the W18 given that it will fit in my door?
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Old 04-09-2007   #54
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

NpDang. If we're talking about a car woofer like an IDQ8 DVC with 4 ohm coils and a sensitivity of 91.5 do the same rules apply since it's not clear wether that speaker was tested at 4 or 8 ohms? My plans for my current setup are limited since I need my lower powered amp, a Reference 500 for my sub. My only options for my midbass is a Rubicon 702 which does 350x2 into 2 ohms, 125x2 into 4 ohms and 75x2 into 8ohms. I've run them at 2 ohms in my previous car but I just don't want THAT much power up front and the extra strain on the amp and electrical system.

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Old 05-25-2007   #55
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Although 7 weeks old... I'll chime in that 95% of the DVC subwoofers have their t/s parameters measured when the coils are in series. If they don't, it will be noted.
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Old 05-27-2007   #56
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

and there are also references to methodologies of damping dvc subwoofers by powering only one coil, then "tuning" your Q by either leaving the second coil open, shorting it, or installing a resistor in there.

could be a fun test
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Old 06-01-2007   #57
 
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Another question. I was looking at the RS180 4 and 8 Ohm power handling capabilities. Both have 60W RMS/90 Max. Does that mean that if I use an amp rated at 100W at 4Ohms, that I could toast the 4 Ohm version, but would be fine with the 8 since the amp will only deliver 50W to an 8 Ohm load. By the way, the 3 Ohm rule holds here 91 vs 88 dB at 2.83/1m.
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Old 06-02-2007   #58
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

kind of OT but i changed my dual 4 ohm sub from parallel to series yesterday and polyfilled the box. it sounds completely different and im loving it, thanks to this thread
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Old 06-28-2007   #59
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

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Originally Posted by ryan s View Post
kind of OT but i changed my dual 4 ohm sub from parallel to series yesterday and polyfilled the box. it sounds completely different and im loving it, thanks to this thread
Glad to hear it !!

NP Dang, will be too !!





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Old 03-21-2008   #60
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Sorry, to bring this up from the dead and I am sure it has been answered 100 times.

I have an Orion 2150GX; it puts out 150 watts per channel into 4 ohms, 300 watts per channel into 2 ohms. I guess it puts out 75 watts per channel into 8 ohms.

I have dual 4 ohm VC speakers, IDQ8's. The IDQ8's could be setup as 2 ohm or eight ohm speakers. I would be getting 300 watts per channel at 2 ohms and 75 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Sounds like a huge difference to me. How would the speakers sound different in each setup?

These are midbasses (100-250hz) and my primary interest are the dynamics (headroom).

BTW, my car has been in pieces since dec. 19. 2007. I hope to have it together in the next 3 weeks.
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Old 03-21-2008   #61
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchyz250f View Post
Sorry, to bring this up from the dead and I am sure it has been answered 100 times.

I have an Orion 2150GX; it puts out 150 watts per channel into 4 ohms, 300 watts per channel into 2 ohms. I guess it puts out 75 watts per channel into 8 ohms.

I have dual 4 ohm VC speakers, IDQ8's. The IDQ8's could be setup as 2 ohm or eight ohm speakers. I would be getting 300 watts per channel at 2 ohms and 75 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Sounds like a huge difference to me. How would the speakers sound different in each setup?

These are midbasses (100-250hz) and my primary interest are the dynamics (headroom).

BTW, my car has been in pieces since dec. 19. 2007. I hope to have it together in the next 3 weeks.


This thread is meant to apply comparing a 4 ohm driver with an 8 ohm driver. In application where you have multiple wiring options for the same driver (like your DVC sub) wire it to get the most power from the amp, in your case 2 ohms. Since efficiency is not drastically different when you wire it differently, since it is still using the same coils, just in a different configuration.

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Old 03-21-2008   #62
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. But what about this statement;

"kind of OT but i changed my dual 4 ohm sub from parallel to series yesterday and polyfilled the box. it sounds completely different and im loving it, thanks to this thread"

I have read the same thing on 'diyaudio' about subs.
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Old 03-21-2008   #63
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

I'm gonna have to side with notacop on this one.

I believe the original purpose of this thread was to compare single voice coil drivers and educate the masses on the possible benefit of 8ohm drivers vs. 4ohm drivers... I don't believe it was intended to have people re-wiring their DVC subs to get less power to them. This is just silly, in my estimation. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Old 04-19-2008   #64
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Hey, I don't post much but have a question. I am running a JL 10w1-8 off of a MTX Thunder 502 and to get any noticeable output I have to crank the gains all the way up. The sub's Rms rating is 125 watts. So I figure at an 8 ohm load the amp is pushing out around 180 watts. I guess my question is why the gains have to be maxed out for for any good amount of output.
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Old 04-19-2008   #65
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

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Originally Posted by bobditts View Post
The gain is not a volume nob! you are more than likely sending that sub a very distorted signal at higher volumes. Id be very careful if I were you
that was not his question.....


To the original poster it most likely has to do with weak out voltage of your head unit. But there are many different variables that could be effecting why you are not getting what you consider to be a good volume.
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Old 04-19-2008   #66
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobditts View Post
The gain is not a volume nob! you are more than likely sending that sub a very distorted signal at higher volumes. Id be very careful if I were you
The gain IS a volume knob. There's no reason to think that his sub is receiving a distorted signal.

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What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
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Old 04-19-2008   #67
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

I set the gains by putting the volume to 3/4 of the way up on the HU and then slowly turning the gain up until it hear distortion. The head unit I am using is a Clarion Hx-D10 w/ the processor. It has 4v pre-outs. I just don't get any noticeable output unless the gains are maxed out. Any help is appreciated.
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Old 04-19-2008   #68
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnelly View Post
I set the gains by putting the volume to 3/4 of the way up on the HU and then slowly turning the gain up until it hear distortion. The head unit I am using is a Clarion Hx-D10 w/ the processor. It has 4v pre-outs. I just don't get any noticeable output unless the gains are maxed out. Any help is appreciated.

Thats prob max 4 volts out. I doubt it puts any thing more then 2 volts out. A line driver would not hurt.
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Old 04-19-2008   #69
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Ratio = input-to-output.

Going in reverse order turn gain down on amp or amps, next piece in the line and finally head unit.

Now going in forward turn volume up on head unit to 3/4 of full, turn gain up on amp [you are looking to get the headunit at a clipping point at the same time the amp clips ].



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Old 04-20-2008   #70
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

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Yes but you are still faced with the voltage limits of the semiconductors in the amplifiers. Car amps run at nearly the same rail voltages as home amps if not more. Not until you get intop pro amps do you see the mondo rail voltages (like 180V rail to rail) in a Crest Audio big boy 01 series, get out your wallet though.

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Old 05-20-2008   #71
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

I had fun today comparing a 4ohm tweeter (canton) to an 8ohm(tang band) and there was no diffrence that I could hear volume wise at most frequencies.

High efficiency 8ohms rules!
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Old 05-20-2008   #72
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

agreed,
my new midrange
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-020

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Old 05-22-2008   #73
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

Here is mine, not high efficiency but not bad.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=264-842
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Old 05-25-2008   #74
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

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Slap a pair of those in the kicks....call it a day.

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Old 08-23-2008   #75
 
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Default Re: The "Real Deal" with 8 ohm drivers

I don't really see why anyone would think moving to 8 ohm drivers would be under most circumstances. Let's be realistic, most of us are constantly buying and selling gear anyway, surely we would just do our best to make amps match our speaker setup?

For example, I have recently purchased a pair of SLS 8". Previously I was running my 4 ohm midbass off 150 Watts per side. I'll be happy with 2 X 75W @ 4 ohms for a little while, but pretty soon I'm going to get another amp, bridge the two amps up and have 300 Watts per side at 8 ohms anyway.

Given how power is not really as expensive as it used to be, I only look at effeciency ratings to question whether the quoted Xmax can be reached with stated RMS power.

For example, if I saw this on an 8" driver (I haven't, but one day i'm sure i will):

Sensitivity: 79db
RMS power: 150W
XMAX: 10mm one way

I would call bs on ever seeing the driver stroke that much without causing a vcv (voice coil volcano).

If I trust the specs, I won't look at sensitivity or effeciency. I'll look at cone size, fs, rms power handling, and Xmax to determine what role it will play in a given setup and what amp to get for it.

Waveguides and arrays are the only form of free sensitivity. High sensitivity drivers are too ugly in response, too low in xmax, and too freaking big. End of story.
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