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Old 04-25-2007   #26
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Thank you for the Excellent Review! It was a great idea to test these drivers in both home and car environments and I thank you for your foresight in this regard! Will be a great reference and application guide for years to come!

Thanks again!
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Old 04-25-2007   #27
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

shinojhn=win!

You're making me want a 3 way setup though >:[

-aaron
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Old 04-26-2007   #28
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Excellent.

Makes me eagerly await the new Lotus 8 even more.
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Old 05-02-2007   #29
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinjohn View Post

Keep the great comments coming; it can only better lift up everyone's understanding and knowledge! (I know I've got ALOT to learn!)
Kudos for taking the time to review all of them! I just wanted to defend the TB/MCM, since I think it's quite unique. About the only competition it has it TC Sounds 8" woofer, which is available from soundsplinter.com and TCSounds.

There's a cheap high-excursion seven inch driver that's promising - it's the M165x from Gr-Research. I think I'm going to buy four of these soon.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ead.php?t=6386
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Old 05-02-2007   #30
 
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Kudos for taking the time to review all of them! I just wanted to defend the TB/MCM, since I think it's quite unique. About the only competition it has it TC Sounds 8" woofer, which is available from soundsplinter.com and TCSounds.

There's a cheap high-excursion seven inch driver that's promising - it's the M165x from Gr-Research. I think I'm going to buy four of these soon.

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ead.php?t=6386
That driver has already been tested.

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Driver found...
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Old 05-02-2007   #31
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

I ran the Rainbow Ref mids and tweeters in my Tacoma, ID DAC, ID crossover and EQ's, I preferred them active over the big passive crossover they came with. I do know how good they are I was always blown away by the midrange out of such a large driver(I almost went with the 4.5 for a change to go with the below dual midbasses in the doors I was changing to next)

I also had two pairs of the 6.5 midbasses, as above, was going to use them in the doors with the Ref set or with the 4.5 midrange/tweet combo.

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To this day I have still never heard a car audio or home speaker setup I liked better with the exception of Doc Edgar's Titans.

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Old 05-02-2007   #32
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio View Post
I ran the Rainbow Ref mids and tweeters in my Tacoma, ID DAC, ID crossover and EQ's, I preferred them active over the big passive crossover they came with. I do know how good they are I was always blown away by the midrange out of such a large driver(I almost went with the 4.5 for a change to go with the below dual midbasses in the doors I was changing to next)

I also had two pairs of the 6.5 midbasses, as above, was going to use them in the doors with the Ref set or with the 4.5 midrange/tweet combo.

------------

To this day I have still never heard a car audio or home speaker setup I liked better with the exception of Doc Edgar's Titans.

Rick
Rick, seen the article on your '96 Tacoma. Impressive work there!!! I can't knock Rainbow gear: very good if you can afford it!

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Old 05-02-2007   #33
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Thanks buddy, the truck was not really done when photographed but then again, it never really was completed with any of the various systems I ran

I just wish more could of heard it, everyone that did loved it and I had a blast sharing the fun

When I bought them I lost allot of weight, could not afford food for some time, lol!

True story as well

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Old 05-02-2007   #34
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

glad to see you post Rick! how's it going? I owe you a call soon!

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Old 05-02-2007   #35
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Been pretty dang busy for months on end, unbelievable growth in the business, try to fit some family time in and a bit of play time as well but then I end up working to late allot.

Life is good though, have a major revision of our website being built to ease my workload, costing a bundle but will be worth it so I can have more time hanging out with the cool people I love!!

Rick

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Old 12-19-2007   #36
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Sorry to dig this up, but I'm currently searching for a good midbass driver to use in a 3 way front speaker system, that has a good performance between 50 and 350Hz. I'd like to use these Peerless SLS 8", but my car doors don't allow it (at least, without major mods)...
I wonder if anyone knows anything about the Peerless SLS 6.5" (model 830946). Given the shape of this speaker, they're almost a perfect fit in my doors! Are they a good choice for what I need?
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Old 04-20-2008   #37
 
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Am I reading the frequency response wrong? It looks like the Dayton has better low frequency response than the Peerless.

Last edited by jaypine; 04-20-2008 at 06:06 PM..
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Old 04-21-2008   #38
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypine View Post
Am I reading the frequency response wrong? It looks like the Dayton has better low frequency response than the Peerless.
Looks like you're reading them wrong. If you're looking specifically at the modeled response curves, take the Peerless curve and shift it up so that the "flat" part of the curves line up (compensate for the difference in driver efficiency). You'll see the Dayton rolls off faster on the low end.

Also take a look at the links in the first post; npdang posted actual measured response curves....

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Old 07-05-2008   #39
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

I stil go back to this review for reference. Exceptional job Shinjohn.

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Old 07-07-2008   #40
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainobvious View Post
I stil go back to this review for reference. Exceptional job Shinjohn.
Glad it was of help, and also glad to see you went with the SLSs. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Let us know how they work out.

And yes, I still have a pair of these sitting in my garage.... They would be in the doors of my car if I had the time and inclination to rebuild my door panels for them....

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Old 07-08-2008   #41
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinjohn View Post
Glad it was of help, and also glad to see you went with the SLSs. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Let us know how they work out.

And yes, I still have a pair of these sitting in my garage.... They would be in the doors of my car if I had the time and inclination to rebuild my door panels for them....
Get them thangs built

And I will certainly update with a review once they are installed and broken in.

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Old 07-22-2008   #42
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

There is also an SLS 10inch version. It has similar QTS, I wonder if it would be just as good (or better isnce it is biger). Biger is always better, it would seem.
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Old 04-01-2011   #43
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

So what driver would you recommend using with my Morel Supremo Piccolos? I need an 8 that will be flat up to around 2kHz since that is where I have the tweeters crossed over.

The fronts in the Camry are quite large and factory use 6x9s and I can even build a very deep mounting plate so depth is not an issue for me. I even thought that a shallow 10 might even work to keep up with those awesome Morel tweets.

Any advice guys?

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Old 04-01-2011   #44
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrfrompuken View Post
So what driver would you recommend using with my Morel Supremo Piccolos? I need an 8 that will be flat up to around 2kHz since that is where I have the tweeters crossed over.

The fronts in the Camry are quite large and factory use 6x9s and I can even build a very deep mounting plate so depth is not an issue for me. I even thought that a shallow 10 might even work to keep up with those awesome Morel tweets.

Any advice guys?
why not start a new thread?


you are looking for something from 8 - 10, you have supremo piccolo, why don't you try supremo 9"
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Old 04-02-2011   #45
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrfrompuken View Post
So what driver would you recommend using with my Morel Supremo Piccolos? I need an 8 that will be flat up to around 2kHz since that is where I have the tweeters crossed over.

The fronts in the Camry are quite large and factory use 6x9s and I can even build a very deep mounting plate so depth is not an issue for me. I even thought that a shallow 10 might even work to keep up with those awesome Morel tweets.

Any advice guys?
A little weird bumping up this 3 year old review to ask another one of several "WHAT 8" SHOULD I USE?" "question. I guess you have been searching? If so, I am sure you came across the numerous posts about speaker beaming, and larger drivers like 8's and 10's tend to beam at a lower frequency. So, trying to mate 8's in the doors(off axis) with tweets may be a challenge.
DIYMA.com - Search Results

If a 6.5" is not working for you then maybe try to seal them in a small enclosure? or go with a capable 7" in a small sealed enclosure?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
^^^Kinda jerky, but true.

This on and off axis thing is about as misunderstood as any audio topic (besides the high-end wire BS). I'm posting this polar graph again--maybe I should just add it as my signature.




The top graph is the polar response to which Mark is referring. It shows output level at various angles off axis for a few frequencies. Beaming at high frequencies is apparent, but this idea that you can use a speaker in a car in a range where it beams effectively is BS, unless you're building a system in a school bus. This is for an 8" woofer, but essentially the same pattern exists for all round drivers. For a smaller driver, the frequency where dispersion begins to narrow would be higher. In order to use a simple round speaker for pattern control, this 8" would have to be high-passed at about 1k. So, it's a really inefficient 8" tweeter that doesn't play high frequencies very well. Perfect.


The second graph is the same speaker plotted as a frequency response graph measured at various angles off axis.

It's pretty esay to surmise that used in a range where the 8" is designed to operate most efficiently (below 1k), the radiation (dispersion) is pretty uniform into most forward angles. That means that no matter which way you point the speaker, the response is "on axis", but there will be a little bit of attenuation at high frequencies. So, if I point the speaker up at the windshield, I can mount it in the dash (so long as there's room) in a way that looks nice and I can put a tweeter next to it. There's going to be a giant collection of comb filters because there will be a reflection at all the forward angles off of the slanted windshield. There's no way to control this other than to use the entire windshield as the mouth of a horn, but trying to build that as more than a big crapshoot is too much work for relatively little benefit and the big horn will have its own share of frequency response problems. The good news is that the combination of the combs is mostly hard to hear and you can fix it adequately with a couple of low-Q filters. MS-8 will do this for you.

Here's the polar response of a 1.5" tweeter:



It's pretty easy to see that the dispersion is wide for most of the useable range except at the very highest frequencies.

The graph below is what happens if I use a big mid and a little tweeter. The black curve is off axis and the red curve is on axis.

Since our speaker (no matter whether it's a center channel or mounted in the door or kick panel) will radiate much of its response uniformly into most forward angles, we'll hear the on-axis and off axis responses combined. The off axis response will be reflected off of nearby surfaces and the on-axis response won't. If you mount the speaker off axis, then the off axis response will have a direct path to your ears and the on axis response will be reflected. In any case, you'll hear the combination and the combination of the two graphs leaves a hole at the crossover point. Pattern control is out the window because of all the boundaries--those adjacent to the speaker, those adjacent to your ears (which will reflect the same response that your ears hear) and all of those in between.

For the center channel pointed at the windshield,there's going to be a hole, but the windshield is relatively flat and will reflect whatever is pointed at it in a pretty uniform way. If on-axis response of the speaker is similar to the off axis response of the speaker, then the reflection will be similar to the response you hear directly from the speaker. Since the arrival times will be close enough that you won't hear them as separate events, the apparent source will be in between the source and the reflection, whicis higher than the dash and raises the stage. This will provide a nice, big center image.

Of course, you'll have to deal with the suckout, but that will happen no matter whether you mount the speaker on or off axis. That's what EQ is for and a low Q suckout is easier to fix than a high-Q suckout. You can't EQ the on-axis and off axis responses separately.

The moral of the story here is that if you're not building some big-ass horn, using waveguides of some sort, using carefully arranged driver arrays and serious DSP or using 15" drivers as midrange and 8" drivers as tweeters, there's no effective pattern control in cars and you're better off using speakers where they're intended to be used (within their piston range). No matter what you think is happening or what some IASCA mofo wants to pitch in the interest of additional complexity for a few thousand more "upgrade points" or to sell some BS speaker, speakers aren't flashlights, they're floodlights.

The benefit of the "wideband" 2" tweeter is that it can be crossed low enough to match the woofer at a frequency where the woofer's dispersion is wide (low directivity). However, dispersion fro the 2" is bound by the same law as all other speakers (no matter the cone material or the marketing spin), so the same thing I've illustrated here with the 8" holds for the 2", but at much higher frequencies. There isn't a lot going on at 15k, so it probably doesn't matter.

The simplest and best sounding system is a 3-way (with a 3" mid) mounted in the door and a center channel pointed at the dash, IMO.[/
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Old 04-02-2011   #46
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

good thread to bump though. but an old one too.

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Old 06-10-2018   #47
 
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

One of the BEST threads I have seen on DIYMA. WOW! I know old thread, but still in 2018, they are till selling some of these drivers. AMAZING how well they have held up over the years.

THanks to DIYMA and so many others.. Threads like these have really went the distance of what the hobby is all about. Again, thank you!

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Old 06-10-2018   #48
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Default Re: DIYMA 8" Mid/Bass Comparison (shinjohn)

Dude, are you just trying to get enough posts to sell shit?

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