Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers - Page 2 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 12-02-2012   #26
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Default Re: Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers

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Originally Posted by avanti1960 View Post
interesting you mention this. i bought the imagines as a means to add warmth and midbass vs. the Focal V30s- which I were not happy with. my ears told me it was a successful effort yet with additional mechanical work required to manage the overabundance of bass at certain frequencies, i.e. the small enclosure effect. i really believe this set was designed for a plug and play upgrade to add decent bass to stock, untreated, unsealed doors.

just yesterday i ran individual RTA sweeps of evey driver in my car to try and optimize the crossover settings. thanks to hanatsu and wesayso for this suggestion.
the attached pic shows the imagines (front door, blue curve) and the focal V30 (rear door, green curve). each are HP crossed at 80 Hz 24db, no EQ.

you can see that the HATs are +3db @ 100 Hz and +5db @ 80 Hz vs. the V30s. that is a significant measured improvement. also note the huge peak of the HATs from 200 Hz to 350 Hz. This is the bloated bass issue i have to contend with and my tune EQ settings bear this out. this was worse when the doors were rigidly sealed. If i had time i would love to open one of the sealed holes in the door and see what that does to the F/R. bottom line, the HATs were worth it but not without some added difficulty in my install.

with respect to the midrange output, i believe the pioneer autoEQ had the effect of boosting the output of the imagines at frequencies from 1 to 5 Khz. they are absolutely clean and up front within this range.

however, after measuring the output of each driver, the ultimate crossover point in my install (i.e. the point where the F/R starts falling off naturally) is right on the money between 1Khz and 1.5Khz. I will run my new tune crossed at 1.2Khz between the midwoofer and midrange.
the reason my previous tune had laid back vocals was because the L3SE starts falling off below 1.2 Khz and they were crossed at 800 Hz, thus the hole in the sound. See second pic for the L3SE curve (magenta) overlaid with the imagine's.
This is fun stuff and I am anxious to apply the new settings today.
I have done this as well even if I don't have the graphs handy. It was a bit of an eye opener for sure. I actually need to re-do this as I have vented my midrange/tweet pods into the apillars now which should of affected the low range extension some. I am a little concerned about your plots for your midbass comparisons however. Why did you leave an 80 Hz crossover on them when doing the readings? I think I set mine for somewhere in the 30 Hz range and let them run with no low pass. For my midranges I think I settled on 100 Hz/24 db and let them run too. Of course, keep the volume low but it did really tell me a few stories. Also, did you do each separate driver or in pairs? I was told to do each separate driver and it was quite enlightening. Also, for your midbass comparo's you are using different mount locations; did you take readings in different areas because that would seriously affect all of the readings (especially that mountain we both have around 250-400 Hz). I killed that mountain with 2 crossovers (250 Hz 12 db and a 350 Hz 24 db). That did really flatten that out for me (another suggestion from a knowledgeable forum member). I do still have to drop a little there with the eq but not nearly as much.

Another experiment that I did, I thought up due to a comment I heard from a member on one of these forums. He said that all rta programs essentially suck on pc's because windows screws with the responses. I don't know how much truth is behind this but I wanted to kind of test that theory. I decided to grab my pink noise cd (exact same one I use in car) and threw it in my blue ray player and took a reading on my home stereo. I did this because it is the best sounding setup I have access to and I am always impressed by the response of it. It is a fairly hi line Denon and has had Audessey set on it to give it that nice sound. Low and behold, the stupid rta was showing the exact same peak at 2 kHz and 5 kHz and the dip at 63 Hz was even larger than in the bloody car! Anyways, I saved the response and used it as kind of a template (target curve) for the car. I did add in a fair amount more from about 300 Hz down as the small space I think requires that. End result: Best it had ever sounded! I sat with it for about 30 mins the next day, doing small tweaks mostly in the 1 kHz and midbass areas and it truly sounds quite nice to me. Just thought I would share this as it might help out some other guys or provide some feedback from some guys more knowledgeable than I.
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Old 12-03-2012   #27
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Default Re: Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers

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Originally Posted by james2266 View Post
I have done this as well even if I don't have the graphs handy. It was a bit of an eye opener for sure. I actually need to re-do this as I have vented my midrange/tweet pods into the apillars now which should of affected the low range extension some. I am a little concerned about your plots for your midbass comparisons however. Why did you leave an 80 Hz crossover on them when doing the readings? I think I set mine for somewhere in the 30 Hz range and let them run with no low pass. For my midranges I think I settled on 100 Hz/24 db and let them run too. Of course, keep the volume low but it did really tell me a few stories. Also, did you do each separate driver or in pairs? I was told to do each separate driver and it was quite enlightening. Also, for your midbass comparo's you are using different mount locations; did you take readings in different areas because that would seriously affect all of the readings (especially that mountain we both have around 250-400 Hz). I killed that mountain with 2 crossovers (250 Hz 12 db and a 350 Hz 24 db). That did really flatten that out for me (another suggestion from a knowledgeable forum member). I do still have to drop a little there with the eq but not nearly as much.

Another experiment that I did, I thought up due to a comment I heard from a member on one of these forums. He said that all rta programs essentially suck on pc's because windows screws with the responses. I don't know how much truth is behind this but I wanted to kind of test that theory. I decided to grab my pink noise cd (exact same one I use in car) and threw it in my blue ray player and took a reading on my home stereo. I did this because it is the best sounding setup I have access to and I am always impressed by the response of it. It is a fairly hi line Denon and has had Audessey set on it to give it that nice sound. Low and behold, the stupid rta was showing the exact same peak at 2 kHz and 5 kHz and the dip at 63 Hz was even larger than in the bloody car! Anyways, I saved the response and used it as kind of a template (target curve) for the car. I did add in a fair amount more from about 300 Hz down as the small space I think requires that. End result: Best it had ever sounded! I sat with it for about 30 mins the next day, doing small tweaks mostly in the 1 kHz and midbass areas and it truly sounds quite nice to me. Just thought I would share this as it might help out some other guys or provide some feedback from some guys more knowledgeable than I.
james,

i left the 80Hz crossovers on because that is where they sound the best. i tried running them at 63Hz and the sound got sloppy.

yes, i did each driver by itself. and with respect to the midbass comparison it was measured from the same liocation- but the distance from driver to ear is nearly identical in the RAV for the front and rear speakers (at least with the seat all the way back).

it must be nice to crossover that low- my EQ did handle the "mountain" well however I will post some final curves soon.

very interesting about the problems with the RTA, yeah it is an imperfect tool but seems to go hand in hand with what you actually hear.

sounds like a nice target curve! Do post when you have a minute!

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 12-03-2012   #28
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Default Re: Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers

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Originally Posted by avanti1960 View Post
james,

i left the 80Hz crossovers on because that is where they sound the best. i tried running them at 63Hz and the sound got sloppy.

yes, i did each driver by itself. and with respect to the midbass comparison it was measured from the same liocation- but the distance from driver to ear is nearly identical in the RAV for the front and rear speakers (at least with the seat all the way back).
Even if the distance is nearly identical, the front speaker (center console, underdash) has some reflections the rear speaker (front and rear seat) doesn't have and vice-versa... Therefore it's not a good comparison if you want to know if the I6 has more midbass than the V30
Unless I'm wrong, I think that rear doors are also smaller.


it must be nice to crossover that low- my EQ did handle the "mountain" well however I will post some final curves soon.

very interesting about the problems with the RTA, yeah it is an imperfect tool but seems to go hand in hand with what you actually hear.

sounds like a nice target curve! Do post when you have a minute!
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Old 12-03-2012   #29
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Default Re: Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers

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Originally Posted by subwoofery View Post
Kelvin
agreed to a certain extent- the front door / rear door midbass comparison is not completely scientific because of reflections and door volume- however the RTA plot from the rear V30's is nearly identical to the plot that was taken when the V30s were in my front doors- and this correlates to the subjective improvement in midbass when i replaced them with the imagines. IIRC the curve looks alot like Focal's published specs as well.

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 06-18-2015   #30
 
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Default Re: Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers

can you use 4k @ 24db slope on the hat imagines
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Old 06-18-2015   #31
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Default Re: Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers

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can you use 4k @ 24db slope on the hat imagines
should sound OK but they sound best crossed 800Hz or lower in my car. their tonality suffers above 1Khz or so and the passenger door speaker sound dominates in those frequencies because of a better line of site to the right ear.

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 09-05-2015   #32
 
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Default Re: Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers

wsup i have mu hat imagines tweets at 4k 24db slope they are in my sail panel my midbass is in bottom of door midlpf 3.15 at 24db slope midhpf 50hz 12db slope sub lpf 80hz 24db slope
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Old 09-21-2015   #33
 
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Default Re: Review, HAT L3SE "Midrange" and Imagine I6 Midbass Drivers

I have just recently installed the l3se in a 3 way set up with a pair of beyma mid bass and tweeters...

My two cents are the l3se are very clean and articulate...I'm surprised at the amount of mid bass the l3se gives off...


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