Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer - Page 3 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 11-12-2012   #51
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
Bought one of these a few weeks ago. Tried it in a 1,5ft│ sealed enclosure first, but I decided on a vented enclosure instead. 1,8ft│ tuned at 32Hz, enormous low end, had to pull down 25-35Hz roughly 12dB with EQ. No "subsonic" highpass filter applied. I have nothing to complain about, it's pretty similar to my old Peerless XXLS. Great build quality as well. I recommend this driver in any SQ build. I can post measured T/S parameters and a FR sweep/HD graph later this week if someone's interested.
awesome! you went for ported before it even started to break in! post your results when you get a chance, i'm definitely interested.

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Old 11-12-2012   #52
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awesome! you went for ported before it even started to break in! post your results when you get a chance, i'm definitely interested.
Nah, it's broken in. Pink noise for 72h

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Old 11-15-2012   #53
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

I actually bought another one, got it on a sale with a 40% discount. I'm gonna do a little experiment. I'm measuring T/S data with DATS before break-in, after 1h, 12h, 24h, 48h. See what changes and how long it takes to the parameters to stabilize. Hoping to get a little bit more understand of the break-in period. If it affects non linear distortion for example. I will run IMD/HD/FR sweeps this weekend. I'll compare it to another high end sub and see how it performs.

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Old 11-15-2012   #54
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
I actually bought another one, got it on a sale with a 40% discount. I'm gonna do a little experiment. I'm measuring T/S data with DATS before break-in, after 1h, 12h, 24h, 48h. See what changes and how long it takes to the parameters to stabilize. Hoping to get a little bit more understand of the break-in period. If it affects non linear distortion for example. I will run IMD/HD/FR sweeps this weekend. I'll compare it to another high end sub and see how it performs.
Cool, sounds like a neat experiment. I am curious of your findings. I will be tuning in.
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Old 11-16-2012   #55
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

Alright... It's still playing noise for another day or so but I don't think it matters really. Kind of surprised over the results. It seems like the drivers T/S parameters stabilizes at with a Fs of 20.86Hz after just 2 hours or so. If it doesn't decrease in the coming day I presume that break-in period does not last longer than that. Qts decreases slightly over time but it's far to 0.31 which SS specd. The lower VAS/higher Fs/higher Q indicates that the driver is stiffer than it's supposed to. Guess I give it some more time...

Here's a report from DATS:

Right out of the box:



After one hour:



After 24 hours:



Compare this to Scan-Speaks own specs:

http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/30w-4558t00.pdf

Fs: 17Hz (Measured: 20.86Hz / Difference (%): +22,7)
Qts: 0,32 (Measured: 0,421 / Difference (%): +31,5)
VAS: 197lit (Measured: 132,3 / Difference (%): -49,2)
Qms: 5,01 (Measured: 5,8 / Difference (%): +15,6)
Qes: 0,34 (Measured: 0,454 / Difference (%): +33,5)
Re: 2,6ohm (Measured: 2,54 / Difference (%): -2,7)

I will perform further tests once I conclude that the drivers break-in period is done.

Oh btw... the ambient temperature was pretty constant. Room temperature that is...

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Old 11-17-2012   #56
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

FS is unusually low (measured and from specs).
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Old 11-17-2012   #57
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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Originally Posted by ZAKOH View Post
FS is unusually low (measured and from specs).
that's why i like it- it had the lowest F3 of any sub I modeled for my 1.41 box.

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Old 11-17-2012   #58
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
Alright... It's still playing noise for another day or so but I don't think it matters really. Kind of surprised over the results. It seems like the drivers T/S parameters stabilizes at with a Fs of 20.86Hz after just 2 hours or so. If it doesn't decrease in the coming day I presume that break-in period does not last longer than that. Qts decreases slightly over time but it's far to 0.31 which SS specd. The lower VAS/higher Fs/higher Q indicates that the driver is stiffer than it's supposed to. Guess I give it some more time...

Here's a report from DATS:

Right out of the box:



After one hour:



After 24 hours:



Compare this to Scan-Speaks own specs:

http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/30w-4558t00.pdf

Fs: 17Hz (Measured: 20.86Hz / Difference (%): +22,7)
Qts: 0,32 (Measured: 0,421 / Difference (%): +31,5)
VAS: 197lit (Measured: 132,3 / Difference (%): -49,2)
Qms: 5,01 (Measured: 5,8 / Difference (%): +15,6)
Qes: 0,34 (Measured: 0,454 / Difference (%): +33,5)
Re: 2,6ohm (Measured: 2,54 / Difference (%): -2,7)

I will perform further tests once I conclude that the drivers break-in period is done.

Oh btw... the ambient temperature was pretty constant. Room temperature that is...
thanks for the info and testing. after running this one in my car for ~ 90 hours I can attest to the fact that it sounds different and better since it was first installed- your testing (if accurate) shows what we might expect- the the sub is stiffer out of the box vs. published specs- and that the published specs might have been recorded / measured after significant break in.

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Old 11-19-2012   #59
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

70 hours+ now. No change in Fs, still 20.86Hz, but Q continually decreases. Qts at 0.37 now and Vas at 151lit. So I'm keeping it on noise for another day and see if it changes further.

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Old 11-19-2012   #60
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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70 hours+ now. No change in Fs, still 20.86Hz, but Q continually decreases. Qts at 0.37 now and Vas at 151lit. So I'm keeping it on noise for another day and see if it changes further.
Very interesting...
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Old 11-19-2012   #61
 
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

You bass heads are getting a little carried away with these 50 or so cycles. Remember! they only make up .3% of the audible music spectrum. And in a range where we are least sensitive to degradation, by far.

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Old 11-19-2012   #62
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

Hmm... Vas is high, wondering how this one would do IB

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Old 11-21-2012   #63
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer



Break-in is done. T/S parameters stabilized after 85 hours. No change at all after 100 hours now. There really was a parameter change during the testing.

My conclusion is this; If the driver is not broken in -

Q is higher than spec.
Fs is higher than spec.
Vas is lower than spec.

I'm making a front plate for HD testing tonight, I'll post the results later. I'll try some other new driver and see if the results is consistent with these findings.

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Old 11-25-2012   #64
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

interesting- T/S parameters took ~ 85 hours to stabilize. unless i am imagining things this corresponds with my noting different sound characteristics up until ~ 90 hours of use in my car.

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Old 11-30-2012   #65
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

Hello guys, I bought one today, could you give us more data with your impressions and subwoofer box, please? avanti1960 what sort of equalization did you set up? I want to try the same box you did in my golf GTI, gonna make a false floor to put the new box.
Do you think the orientation of the subwoofer would help spatializing? Firing rearward or firing upward, or it doesn't matter?
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Old 11-30-2012   #66
 
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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Originally Posted by Horuspeed View Post
Hello guys, I bought one today, could you give us more data with your impressions and subwoofer box, please? avanti1960 what sort of equalization did you set up? I want to try the same box you did in my golf GTI, gonna make a false floor to put the new box.
Do you think the orientation of the subwoofer would help spatializing? Firing rearward or firing upward, or it doesn't matter?
All of this is exclusive to your car's unique cabin environment. Nothing is going to help you narrow down what works in your car other than what works in your car.

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Old 12-01-2012   #67
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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Originally Posted by Horuspeed View Post
Hello guys, I bought one today, could you give us more data with your impressions and subwoofer box, please? avanti1960 what sort of equalization did you set up? I want to try the same box you did in my golf GTI, gonna make a false floor to put the new box.
Do you think the orientation of the subwoofer would help spatializing? Firing rearward or firing upward, or it doesn't matter?
hi horuspeed, location of a sub can make a noticeable difference to the sound you hear in the driver's seat. i have had "portable" subs that i would move around and try to find the place that sounds the best. generally for my car the right rear corner was the best place, sub woofer facing away from the nearest wall or upward / downward (if there were feet on the enclosure).
for me it all came down to practicality- i wanted to get the sub out of the main cargo area and under the floor that covers the sub cargo area.
fortunately the sub cargo area in my vehicle gave me just enough room build a nice solid enclosure and of the appropriate volume for a sealed 12" sub.
my enclosure was 1.4 cuft net volume including some allowance for a lb. bat of polyfill. Dimensions 29 x 14 x 8.375 inches, sub firing upwards and located on the end of the enclosure for rigidity. the sound is fine despite not being in the best location in the vehicle.
you may have limited options trying to fit and position a sub enclosure in your vehicle and difficulty trying to find the best location until after you build it. focus on the enclosure design- make it rigid with lots of internal bracing. mine is as solid as a concrete block and i believe it made a positive difference how the sub sounds.
the only EQ I have is some reduction around 50 hz to smooth out a peak in the response. good luck!

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Old 12-01-2012   #68
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

any idea of SPL numbers this can make?
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Old 12-01-2012   #69
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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any idea of SPL numbers this can make?
One realistic way to look at this, is the overall volume that can be displaced (cone area times the stroke). The linear stroke is 12.5mm one way and the cone area is typical of a 12 inch subwoofer. Considering 12.5mm is pretty average, I guess the SPL is comparable to what's produced by an average 12 inch sub in a sealed box (e.g JL W3), but Scanspeak may fill the lowest bass better. The overall stroke distance is something like 1 inch each way, which can be considered pretty good, but beyond the xmax distance distortion will be rising. Realistically, for a bit more SPL, you may want to check out the Image Dynamics IDQv3. It's a good SQ subwoofer, which has 19mm of xmax, and costs about the same as Scanspeak or cheaper. My understanding though, the IDQ's distortion will rise rapidly beyond its xmax as its overall stroke is still something like 1 inch each way. So in the end, their SPL may be equal at the limit.
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Old 12-02-2012   #70
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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any idea of SPL numbers this can make?
probably not exactly what you are looking for but the attached pic was the sub measured yesterday- no EQ, crossed at 20Hz 36db and 100Hz 24db.

500 watts of clean power, approximate 2/3 volume.

this was some loud bass and it was shaking the whole car- i thought i was in a space capsule re-entering the earth's atmosphere!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg scan_sub.jpg (58.0 KB, 81 views)

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Old 12-02-2012   #71
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any idea of SPL numbers this can make?
If you know the transfer function of your car it can be simulated somewhat accurate, assuming placement remains the same. Output is calculated from Xmax*Sd, this gives to the volume displacement.

Gonna post some tests I've done later.

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Old 12-02-2012   #72
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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probably not exactly what you are looking for but the attached pic was the sub measured yesterday- no EQ, crossed at 20Hz 36db and 100Hz 24db.

500 watts of clean power, approximate 2/3 volume.

this was some loud bass and it was shaking the whole car- i thought i was in a space capsule re-entering the earth's atmosphere!
Wow, you do seem to have quite a larger peak than I do at about 40 Hz. I have a peak there but not 10db! I would say we do have some cabin gain going on there. Also, why did you put the 20 Hz cross on when looking at the response? I would think that could be why it looks like the response is tailing off. I know I noticed a difference when I had a subsonic on my Ultimo. I figured I have never heard it bottom before and it is in a sealed box so I killed the subsonic completely and am way happier for it. Just my 2c
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Old 12-02-2012   #73
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

"Subsonic" filters are not very useful in sealed enclosures.

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Old 12-02-2012   #74
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

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Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
"Subsonic" filters are not very useful in sealed enclosures.
My thoughts exactly and that is after experimentation.
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Old 12-02-2012   #75
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Default Re: Review, ScanSpeak Discovery 30W/4558T 12" Subwoofer

All right. First set of tests. My simulation of the box size and port length was off. My intended tuning frequency was between 30-31Hz, it ended up at 25-26Hz instead. Don't know why this happened really, but anyway - I'm sharing my tests before I modify the enclosure size.

These test was measured at 1m with a calibrated ECM8000 mic. Input voltage was 18-18.5V (avg). Above 35Hz, excursion was pretty high, I'd say around Xmax rating. I also provide measurements on tuning frequency, how it changes by adding dampening wool. Measurements done outside the car in a large room. Applications: RoomEQ 5 and DATS.

Notice the increased amount of distortion that coincides with box resonance /40Hz.

HD tests:

20Hz:


25Hz:


30Hz:


40Hz:


50Hz:


60Hz:

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