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Old 08-28-2013   #401
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Yeah, one of the reasons I went with cascade was the "removable" claim, and that I found some cheap on the classifieds here

The stuff will conform over time to whatever position its put in, which is maybe how the bond improves. I had the box standing upright and it kind of slumped into a wavey shape. Now I have the box laying flat with text books stacked on it to try to flatten it out again.
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Old 08-28-2013   #402
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

I don't have any leads on Vmax, I had a lead on VB-2 but it was too much to ship from canada.


STP-Atlantics products are also pretty removable. Not reusable, but very removable. Comes off in one piece, without much effort at all. You just peel up one corner with a putty knife and just pull.

I've also noticed that with many of the current butyl products I've tested, the bond has improved with time. This is why I've been testing right after applying across the board, so its fair. I don't always remove them right away, and when I don't, its noticeably more difficult to remove.


Skip, I'll pm you when I get home, pms don't work that well on my phone.

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Old 08-28-2013   #403
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

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Originally Posted by TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL View Post

I've also noticed that with many of the current butyl products I've tested, the bond has improved with time. This is why I've been testing right after applying across the board, so its fair. I don't always remove them right away, and when I don't, its noticeably more difficult to remove.

.

This might be something to test. See if there is a change in the results after the better bond develops.

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Old 08-28-2013   #404
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Agreed. It may be something that I have to do a full test on in the future, as I couldn't retest everything ive already tested, not enough of some products to do so. Looking at sds, Don rates his adhesive for immediate strength, and strength after 96 hours. Looks like strength at 96 hours is almost 5x that of the immediate strenght. So I would need about 5 days per product to fully test this.

Ive been working on the next tests on paper and in my head. The next setup will have a steel clamping structure, forr better repeatability, and guiding dowels to position the metal exactly the same every time. The entire setup will be enclosed in an insolated enclosure, so I can test at multiple temps. Tests will take much longer, but be more accurate in general, and give much more information. Cost will ne much higher though, so it will be a while before I can even begin working on it. Like everyone else, im learning as I go. In the beginning I had said the biggest disappointment would be for all my hunches to prove correct and to not gain much insight on the subject. Well, that clearly didn't happen.

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Old 08-28-2013   #405
 
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

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Originally Posted by TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL View Post
Ok, so I have two ways I can list the order of product performance. I will not at any time list it based on the reduction in frequency response between bare metal and damped metal. I will also not list a final, comprehensive order of performance, as it would require me to subjectively pick and choose which measurements carry the most importance.

The comparative frequency response graphs are showing the reduction in impulse amplitude between the bare metal and damped metal. This is not a measure of damping, but other things going on, like bracing the panel.

As the measure of damping is the measure of how quickly a material reduces vibration over time, the Damped Waterfall graphs most clearly show how well a product works as a damper. Oberst Beam testing is very good at showing this number, but with a few catches. It is almost always done with 100% coverage. Since the numbers released from such testing are damping coefficients, its difficult to know what other effects are going on, such as panel bracing. Lastly, its always done on narrow strips of metal, to limit complex shapes from affecting the results. As you can imagine, this doesn't apply very well to what we are doing.

So, in a car, I can imagine the most wanted number as far as performance, is the reduction in vibration combined with the instant reduction in impulse amplitude.

This weekend I windowed the damped waterfall graphs down to 150ms. I picked that number, as past that, the top performing product decays to the level of background noise. To get the combined vibration damping reduction, along with the impulse reduction, I added the impulse amplitude reduction in db (taken from the comparative frequency response graphs), and the reduction in vibration in db from the initial damped impulse, to 150ms later. When I post the final results, the waterfall graphs will be windowed to 150ms as well.


The second way I can rank the products, is strictly by damping performance. This ignores the impulse amplitude reduction, and only uses the reduction in amplitude from the damped impulse, to 150ms later.



The top three, and bottom four products so far do not change no matter which method I use. Sixth place doesn't change either. Fourth and fifth exchange places depending on which method I use. Seventh and eighth exchange places, and ninth and tenth also exchange places.



I have 7 more products on hand to test. I'm supposed to have 2 more on the way currently. At this point, I have all major products, aside from Cascade and Focal products, which I'd love to test, am not able to procure myself. I'm going to email Orca tomorrow, and see if they are willing to donate, but I'm not holding my breath. I may also email Cascade, but I really don't see them donating for this, as they already do their own testing (oberst beam testing).
I'm looking forward to the final/ranked results and hope GTMat Quadro and Silent Coat 5mm Multi-layer makes it into the results
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Old 08-28-2013   #406
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

I actually havent received quadro yet. Its supposed to be on the way, so we'll see. Onyx didn't test that well, although I have enough to test again for consistency.

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Old 08-28-2013   #407
 
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

I would be happy to supply samples of all our products for testing. 2mm, 4mm and our 5mm multi layer. Also we manufacture a complete line of foams for sound, I can send them as well. Send to who?

Last edited by silentcoat; 08-28-2013 at 03:03 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 08-28-2013   #408
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

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I would be happy to supply samples of all our products for testing. 2mm, 4mm and our 5mm multi layer. Also we manufacture a complete line of foams for sound, I can send the as well. Send to who?
Sweet, thanks for doing this

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Old 08-28-2013   #409
 
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

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Send to who?
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and Thanks for being awesome
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Old 08-28-2013   #410
 
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Done I will send him a PM right now
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Old 08-28-2013   #411
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Chris,

I was wondering if you had figured out yet, that you had taken on an never ending task?

Seriously man, a huge thanks for all of the work you are doing on this. Things have been pretty crazy for me over the last couple of weeks, but if there is something I can help on please let me know.

In terms of your future testing and the test environment, I would be happy to help out there as well. I can do the design work (technical drawings, quantity take-offs, etc.) and know quite a few sources for material sourcing and more advanced fabrication (both local and not so local).
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Old 08-28-2013   #412
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

PM's sent to Skip and Silent Coat.

Ya, its definitely more than I was expecting at first, but as I'm learning more than I thought I would, its not too bad. I need to PM Bing and see if bribing him with your wifes ice cream helps get us some Blackhole products to test lol.

I'll probably work up a basic sketch this weekend of the new test rig this weekend. I have that problem of thinking way ahead, but I forgot about the 3 day weekend. I have a portable heater and ac I can use for heating and cooling.

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Old 08-28-2013   #413
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL View Post
PM's sent to Skip and Silent Coat.

Ya, its definitely more than I was expecting at first, but as I'm learning more than I thought I would, its not too bad. I need to PM Bing and see if bribing him with your wifes ice cream helps get us some Blackhole products to test lol.

I'll probably work up a basic sketch this weekend of the new test rig this weekend. I have that problem of thinking way ahead, but I forgot about the 3 day weekend. I have a portable heater and ac I can use for heating and cooling.
Issue there is how to easily maintain a specific temperature within say a set variable for a period of time. Touching or even breathing can effect the temp. But depends on how specific you want to be.
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Old 08-28-2013   #414
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Cool, now Silent Coat is in the game! This is getting better!
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Old 08-28-2013   #415
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

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Originally Posted by DJNight2k View Post
Curious if anyone has any experience with this "value" product I found on ebay. 1 New Bulk Roll Mat 100 sqft Butyl Rubber Use as Auto Sound Deadener Material | eBay
Thinner aluminum backing (2mil) but has a fiber built into or onto it for strength and it is cheap enough that I could double it up alot for the same price as the name brand stuff. It is a butyl product which is what caught my eye. Need to do my car but don't have the budget for the top shelf stuff so I am very interested in how some of the "cheaper" products are doing.
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I have some of this actually DJ... I can send it over to you Chris if you have time to test it?
Did DeanE10 send you a sample of this ebay stuff to test? Curious if you had gotten it yet and plan to test it.
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Old 08-28-2013   #416
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

hhmmm... Looks like you might not have received this yet Chris? I will get this taken care of, sorry for any delay...

Also, have you tested the GTMat 110 Mil Product yet?

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Old 08-28-2013   #417
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Dean, I actually just bolted up the panel for the 110 test. I'll also be testing the regular GTMat and Lightning Audio Deadskin.

Berckerson, I'll expand on the idea this weekend, but the new setup would allow for temperature control, and holding the temps steady for long enough for each test. It would be similar to the test rig now, but better built, and the entire thing would be enclosed inside a larger, heavily insulated enclosure.

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Old 08-28-2013   #418
 
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

I just sent you a PM about a product you might be interested in testing.

Derek
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Old 08-28-2013   #419
 
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

This is Roy from silent Coat. Toostubborn2fail you sent me a PM tonight and for some reason there was nothing in your message. Perhaps since I'm new to this forum I'm not looking in the right place, but I think something happened to your PM
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Old 08-28-2013   #420
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Roy, I just checked my end, and it shows up. I resent it, let me know if it goes through, if not, you can pm me an email address I can send it to. Your pms are showing good on my end.

Derek, I'll pm you back in a few minutes

Looks like no Lightning Audio test today, ran out of cleaning supplies to clean the metal between tests. Both GTMat 110mil and 50mil are done, and will be up shortly.

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Old 08-28-2013   #421
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

GTMat 110mil

ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS

Total Thickness - 110mil

Constraining Layer Thickness - 2mil

0.65 lbs per square foot

Notes - I hate removing asphalt products. The hardest product I have had to remove so far. Has a definite asphalt smell.

Bare Metal Frequency Response


Damped Metal Frequency Response


Bare Metal vs Damped Metal Frequency Response


Bare Metal Waterfall


Damped Metal Waterfall

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Old 08-28-2013   #422
 
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Ok, I got it and replied to you. After the holiday I will send you a big package of all my products for your review.
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Old 08-28-2013   #423
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

GTMat 50mil

ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS

Total Thickness - 45mil

Constraining Layer Thickness - 2mil

0.24 lbs per square foot

Notes - Hard to remove, slightly thinner than spec, I measured in many locations to confirm.

Bare Metal Frequency Response


Damped Metal Frequency Response


Bare Metal vs Damped Metal Frequency Response


Bare Metal Waterfall


Damped Metal Frequency Response

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Old 08-28-2013   #424
 
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

would Frost king insulation be worth testing?
heres a vid of seal n peel vs frost king

Dynamat Project Complete!!!! Peel and Seal vs. Frost Kings Air Duct Insulator - YouTube

MurderMat is something different with a layer of vinyl, dont recall if its been mentioned or tested

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Old 08-29-2013   #425
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Default Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing

Wow on the 50mil GTMat, if I did not look at the wfp above 200hz I would think either you retested the bare metal or that it just did not do any thing lol. The 110mil did not look a whole lot better either and it to seemed to do the most work in the 200-800 range.

Pioneer 80prs, Zapco DC 350.2 powering Audible Physics in the kicks/Soon to be DC 350.2 and DC 200.2 powering Morel Hybrid Integra 402, Zapco DC 750.2 powering Morel Elate MW 6 in the doors, Zapco DC 500.1 powering RE Audio SE (original series) 15
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