Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers) - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 03-30-2014   #1
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Default Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Hello DIYMA members,
I would like to post this review and personal opinion which was done by my self on my daily ride.
It is fur sure not a speaker official test and it was done by me, an amateur and they were done in the car during normal listening mode showing “real life” measurements and results based on daily music listening.
Shall we begin then?

The Car – Toyota Avensis 2006 model and make.

The engine is a quiet (very quiet) 2.0 liter petrol engine and the tires are Dunlop DZ101 which are as well proving to be quiet tires (for which I see as the main noise introducer to the driving experience)

The car is sound proofed the following way:

Stinger road kill carpet all over the floor including trunk.
Butil sheets on all four doors, hood, trunk cover and trunk floor and side skirts.
Hoodliner covering the entire hood cover.
CCF (Dynaliner and other un-named brands) on all four doors both internal and external walls.
CCF on the entire trunk and trunk cover.
CCF on the entire a-pillars

System current setup (as the signature changes every now and then):

HU: Nexus 7 tablet + Sabre DAC
DSP: Audison BitOne
AMP: Zed Audio Leviathan modified due to being first generation.
SundownAudio SAE-1000D
Speakers: HAT L6v1 + CDT ES-02
Subwoofer: Digital Designs LE-08

Listening Test, measurements and methods:

Using an OBD scanner verified the overhaul electric system voltage and it was steady at 13volts motor at idle revs.

Using a DSO (Mini Scope) I’ve checked that I have no evident clipping at 60hz, 3500hz and 5000hz frequencies.

The DSO showed voltage on the ES-02 around the 600mv – not sure if I’ve done something wrong there to get this reading.

The test equipment is a MDSP UMIK-1 microphone and REW 5.0 free software on a S10e Lenovo notebook PC calibrated for the original OEM soundcard (which is rubbish)

The test was performed at two main stages:


1. RTA test done at 76 and then at 82 db using pink noise from 20hz to 20Khz

2. Sweep test 40hz to 20Khz

Further explanations and details regarding the tests:

The RTA phase was done while the nexus it self is running as the source entering the bit one showing the system real results.

The black line seen at the RTA shots is the internal voice card calibration of the laptop it self, it gives a very nice reference to how linear the RTA reading is on pink noise (after eq was done listening to my reference music) in conjunction to a fully straighten internal card calibration.

Take in mind that what you see is a result of tuning both on pink noise and selected frequencies only – which did not sound very well until tuned over daily listening reference music and that is what is shown.

The 82db readout is just to show how the reading is kept when the volume goes up.

The sweep test:

This test can be done only when the laptop it self is the HU that is entering the signal in to the DSP.

The difference between the internal volume measured to that of the UMIK had a big margin there for take in mind that at real life the echo and reverb reflected should be worse than what is shown.

What you will see are results of SPL and Phase showing the read in a deeper resolution than third octave.

A waterfall and a spectrogram overview.
Looking at the waterfall the xover point is clearly noticed at around 1.2Khz that is due to pod volume limits for the ES-02 and the best point after the L6 sounded worsen and mal performed.

Any attempt to set a different xover point or to straighten that pit ended up with a worse result, in order to fix that I need to change the volume the ES-02’s are seeing but for me that is good enough and it reveals the true

nature of these elements – I do believe I can provide an honest review about them, now that they are past the break in point and are tuned correctly.

As for the distortion – I would really like the experts opinion about this but for what I understand the THD line shows well below the fundamental and first harmonic readings as well must take in mind that there are other elements which might be vibrating in the car such as the rear sunshade, key chain etc.

Pictures from the tests: (readings and results)

SPL and Phase



THD



Waterfall:



Spectograph:



RTA at 76db:



RTA at 82 db:



Personal thoughts and my review about the CDT Euro Sport 02

My last setup was based on the Hybrid Audio Legatia series L6+L4SE+L1R2 full kick panel install and now I moved to a 2way front active setup when most of the music is played above the dashboard.

The major differences are the overhaul system volume for which now has a much lower potential as I have gone from a 4.5inch mid and a tweeter to just a Mid-Tweeter widebander at total diameter of 2inches only.

But the fact that I had moved the focus from the kick panels to the dash area compromises that volume loss greatly, in fact the impression is that now the sound system is actually louder!

As for the “nature of sound” surprisingly it did not change much at all, the sound system is warm and yet still clear enough so that I can say that I do not lack the clearness of the ring radiators I’ve had before nor do I miss any other part of the spectrum.

The L1R2 were definitely clearer on the higher end than the CDTs yet I was never a highs loving person and the margin really isn’t that far apart.

But I am comparing apples with oranges as if the HATs would have been above dash I would have been blown away by them – I see them as by far superior potential.

Nevertheless, the CDT’s are more to my personal taste at sound and I prefer them at the moment as my daily choice.

They remind me greatly of the CDM54 I’ve had (Morel) but with the noticed addition of the high end as there is really no need to add a tweeter to the ES02 for basic listening.

If I really had to compare them as midranges I would for sure compare them with the Morel CDM line.

The positive side about them:

Considerably cheap to buy and provide great value for money – outstanding I may say.
Small diameter and depth – easy to install.
Very warm sounded and ear pleasing.
Surprisingly clean and detailed for elements which are best used as midranges.
Do not require much power, though they are seated on a Zed leviathan so…

The negative side about them:

They do operate better as midranges.
When used as a wide bender there is no escaping from full on axis install – some people do not like that the system build is not symmetrical for example so considered a down side in my view.
Diameter limited and therefore not as powerful as other midranges.
In order to play lower towards the 500hz or so the volume needs to be much greater than I’ve used – CDT recommend a volume of 0.1cf for sealed and 0.3cd for ported which is a lot in a standard vehicle.
According to CDT then can play down to 150hz – I would say not even in my biggest expectations would I even dare trying something like that with a 2 inch.

Technical specs and contents
• 1 pr 2” hybrid mid/tweeter driver
• Dome diameter: 2” (52mm)
• Frequency response: 200Hz-19.000Hz
• Sensitivity: 86.2dB
• Power handling w/xover: 90W-140Watt HP
• Magnet: Neodymium
• Voice coil: 1.0” (25mm)
• Surround: Rubber
• Frame: Cast aluminum
• Frame OD 2 11/16” (70mm)
• Mounting hole: 2 7/16”
• Mounting depth:1.26” (32mm)
• Cone: Fabric/paper carbon reinforced
• Impedance: 4 Ohm
• Cone surround: rubber
• Mounting depth: 1.26” (32mm)

A little bit about the reference music I’ve used to tune the system:

To test echo and reverb I usually like female voices that tend to get very loud based on their voice only for example “Ancora Qui” from Django sound track

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIxTVNnamj0[/YOUTUBE]

And Souad Massi – Raoui (the thousand nights and a night story)

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJkIgP_w6Vw[/YOUTUBE]

To tune the suboowfer against the midbass and as well phase setup between the mid-tweeter and the woofer I’ve used the famous Chinese drums poem (not this specific recording though)

A bit of electronic music that has some good guitars and bass in it:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAnNccJwH5I[/YOUTUBE]

It is absolutely brutal! O-Daiko by Kodo Japanese drums!

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7HL5wYqAbU[/YOUTUBE]

And finally multiple tracks played by Norah Jones… a little bit of metal tracks for distortion and several others.

I hope that this review is good enough to be considered accountable.

Thank you!

Eddie

As well the build log I keep to update my system development can be seen here:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ight-slow.html

Subi Legacy 10: Morel+HAT CDM880&L1v1+HybridOvation 602 Sub Audison TH10 BASSO Audison VOCE AV5.1K FullDA Nexus7+SabreDAC with Audison Bit One running the show
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Old 03-30-2014   #2
 
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Where are they mounted? I may have missed where you listed that.

They are crossed over at 1.2KHz to the L6V1?
How steep of a slope?
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Old 03-30-2014   #3
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Hello Eddie,

You have setup a pretty nice review of the CDT ES 02. I personally have this set in my truck and play awesome. Just like you, I have a 2way front + sub. I have them playing from 250+ @80w currently. They take it all in and to me and some of my other fellow friend and enthusiast are above board.

I do admit that they will sound a bit better in a sealed chamber. I had tested mine out originally in 2" pvc endcaps and they performed better than expected. I currently have them flush mounted in my sail panel, plan on giving it an enclosure and giving it 150-200w.

I did do a quick test on them with greater power and they had no problems with it. I currently am feeding rhem off a Hifonics ZXi80.4, which is 80×[email protected] and 320×[email protected] I did a small test on them with the 320w @325hz and the clarity to me was all still there. Now I dont have any fancy test equipment to do the spectro or waterfall test on them, I'm pretty sure that when I do test them with the 200w @250hz sealed, the test will uncover their greater performance.
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Old 03-30-2014   #4
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Also, from my small testing abilities, I do agree that the ES-02 are better suited to operate in the 200-19k range. I have tried to run them at lower just to see how they do and to me they seem to be more crackly. With 200hz+ and seated above the dash, they will give you a wider front stage and highs are not as harsh as some tweeter might give you.

I believe the ES-02 widebanders are a bit underrated for their performance. They can handle more than they are listed, but they require more tuning and practices. Maybe I can acquire a mic and some testing software to do a better review on these. But for now, I am in agreeance with you Eddie on your current test results of them.

Their size and performance ability is above par, and I for see more car audio enthusiast going to them.
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Old 03-30-2014   #5
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

2inch with 1mm of xmax. You are crazy running it that low.
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Old 03-30-2014   #6
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Thank you guys!

Not crazy at all - they are in my setup in a seald pods which are way to small so therefore the higher xover poing of 1.2Khz

As well at these xover points and 12db slopes they are perfectly clean and the midbasses are still not beaming and sound widely opened.

I've put them more in to the dash board in order to move them away from the windows as they are reflecting surfaces and the entire dash is covered with a thick fleece cover so it also absorbs much of the high notes.

MetricMuscle - look at the bottom of my review - I've added the post to my build log so you can see exactly how they are mounted.

Eddie

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Old 03-30-2014   #7
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

I have mine set at [email protected] xover with 80wrms fully active off a AudioControl DQXS and Hifonics amp. They are this good. Many people have been underrating this little widebander. It has a lot to offer in such a small package, and they are inexpessive considering how much the 3" widebanders go for these days.
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Old 03-30-2014   #8
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAAAAAA View Post
2inch with 1mm of xmax. You are crazy running it that low.
I know it is hard to fathom 2 inches of diameter and only 1mm of excursion but I am a believer after sitting in BlackRain's Car when they were installed. If you did a blind test without knowing the driver was so small most enthusiast would say "the lower mid-range spectrum was wonderful".
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Old 03-30-2014   #9
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

It would sound better if it was crossed over in a way that made sense.
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Old 03-30-2014   #10
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

What does it mean "make sense"? Are you saying this because its not bigger? Size doesn't always make it sound better or perform a certain way. These widebanders freq spectrum is 115-20k hz, which is the same as an Hybrid L3. So I'm not understanding what is meant by it. It can be used as an oversized tweeter or it can be setup to run as a widebander. To me a 2" tweeter would seem to be out of place. Please explain.
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Old 03-30-2014   #11
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

I'm. Saying that playing that thing that low is asking for trouble. I'm also saying it is to small and doesn't have enough throw to play that low with any kind if authority. Have you model it to see how, power it takes for it to reach Xmas down to 250hz? When you push a driver outside of its limits you are getting way more distortion throughout its entire frequency spectrum that it is playing. Most three inches can't play that low well anyways. A 2 inncher with limited Xmas...that is even marketed more as a tweeter won't do well that low.

And yes these should sound better in axis since they start beaming around 5ish k.
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Old 03-31-2014   #12
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

For me at least they are in a volume which is to small to allow them to go low and indeed I do think that a 2inch diameter would mal perform in compare to a bigger diameter at any frequency below the 600-700 hertz

I've had the L3SE's (I still do) and then can go very low, but does it mean they would play below the 700hz better than the 7.1inch L6? I don't think so - and even if they do - how loud can they take it?

Does it worth the amplifier strain on extra frequency range?
Does it worth the expense of the dynamic range?

Don't think so

So, if my woofers perform better up to the 1.2Khz and they are not beaming - why should I over load and stress my mids?

That is the logic that lead me thinking that pods are alright for me.

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Old 03-31-2014   #13
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Exactly eddieg, no point in playing a 2inch mid that low for those reasons.
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Old 03-31-2014   #14
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Well I believe that a speaker no matter how small can be taken to its limits with power and frequency in the right enclosure. I understand that every speaker especially the smaller ones have a good and decent beaming point, but these play just as good as a Pioneer TS-S0662PRS (2 5/8"). Of course they are no L3 in size and performance but they can really do this with the right tuning and enclosure. Even its power can be maximized for clean high-output
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Old 03-31-2014   #15
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Is it only me who thinks these speakers are identical to Tang Band W2-852SH?
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Old 03-31-2014   #16
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Yeah I've seen that comparisson already and it does seem that this is what they are based on.

It is nothing new to car audio industry to have speakers based on home audio speakers - especially high end market products.

The Genesis absolut and the Alpine F1 are basically Scan-Speaks right?

Just as well many of the Rainbow and as much as I know Dego-Master are actually Usher's modified

And For what I know Audible physics which were Hustler Audio in the past mids are based on the well known founteks 88s... and so on and so on


The fact that you can take a small driver low - does not mean that you should nor is it smart to.

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Old 03-31-2014   #17
 
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Parts Express carries the TangBand W3-1053SC 3" fullrange neo driver. It is exclusive to PE so in other words, TangBand makes it just for them in that particular configuration. CDT could easily have TangBand make the ES-02 for them an it be based on another driver TB already makes. From a cost effective approach, this is a great idea and lots quicker to bring to the market.

I'm sure diymobileaudio.com could have TB make us a custom driver to our specs, just takes the right amount of green. ....as does just about anything in this world.
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Old 03-31-2014   #18
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

did these go up on price? $180 for the black ones is a little more than I thought they were.

Juan, I defnitely want to hear yours. I am going to be doing a setup for a friend and am interested in possibly using these.

I love to overthink things.
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Old 03-31-2014   #19
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ansuser View Post
Is it only me who thinks these speakers are identical to Tang Band W2-852SH?
Thanks for letting me know about these. I was interested in the es-02s, but for the cost I will try these out first. Even used, the es-02s cant touch the cost of these new.
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Old 03-31-2014   #20
 
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

I have considered the ES-02 also. I'd love to see a comparison to the TangBand.
It's important to factor in the differences.
The CDT come with nice grills and maybe some other accessories.
If you are able to duplicate this or don't need what comes with them then the added cost makes them not really worth it.
I think some of the specs are different because CDT and TB use a different FR when measuring. Many small fullrangers have very low power handling specs because they are tested with fullrange signal. If they are tested more like how they would realistically be used then the power handling can go way up and they sound lots better.
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Old 03-31-2014   #21
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

They do look very similar...the specs are almost dead on too. The only difference I have noticed is that the voice coil is bigger on the CDT one. A bit better at power handeling perhaps.
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Old 03-31-2014   #22
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

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Originally Posted by eddieg View Post

And For what I know Audible physics which were Hustler Audio in the past mids are based on the well known founteks 88s... and so on and so on.
Will have to disagree... Audible physics is independent and was/is never based on any fountek drivers. Its all original design.


Hustler Audio is totally under different management
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Old 03-31-2014   #23
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

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Well I believe that a speaker no matter how small can be taken to its limits with power and frequency in the right enclosure. I understand that every speaker especially the smaller ones have a good and decent beaming point, but these play just as good as a Pioneer TS-S0662PRS (2 5/8"). Of course they are no L3 in size and performance but they can really do this with the right tuning and enclosure. Even its power can be maximized for clean high-output
A sealed enclosure will allow the driver to take more power because it applys a breakiing mechanism to the cone making it need more power to move... it won't make it play any louder though... it becomes less efficient. I will have time tonight to model it for you to see. You can't just make anything work how you want it just because you want to and have an enclosure.
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Old 03-31-2014   #24
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

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did these go up on price? $180 for the black ones is a little more than I thought they were.

Juan, I defnitely want to hear yours. I am going to be doing a setup for a friend and am interested in possibly using these.
Casey, you can have a demo of the CDTs at the NC Spring GTG.

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A sealed enclosure will allow the driver to take more power because it applys a breakiing mechanism to the cone making it need more power to move... it won't make it play any louder though... it becomes less efficient. I will have time tonight to model it for you to see. You can't just make anything work how you want it just because you want to and have an enclosure.
I see what you are saying AAAAAA. I would love to see what your model tells us about their performance. There is no shame in being corrected and educated. Though, I have never worked with any modeling software and do not understand fully what how to read them. I would really to see if it allows to input certain parameters (ie.. enclosure type, FR, power).

If I purchased a Mic and say REW software and did some testing, would that allow me to test them to tell how they perform like Eddie did?
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Old 03-31-2014   #25
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Default Re: Technical review CDT ES-02 MidTweeters (Wideband speakers)

If these sound as good as my pioneer 62prs did id be very impressed. w

where did you hear a set? may want to pick them up if the owner is selling

I love to overthink things.
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