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Old 01-09-2018   #951
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverlim View Post
Thanks for your thoughts on this. I will try to remeasure my system on TDA and workshop with the apl1 EQ on and see if it is actually working well. I am still playing around with TDA to try to get my crossover/delays improved on my new setup. So it could be i am still having some issues with my setup.
Safe bet, it’s too easy to spend time on a target even if we know we have other issues uncovered.

About the loudness compensation, I tried this some time ago when I first got my horns and used to listen loud:


3 settings basically:
- for 70/75db > boost low and highs
- for 85/90db untouched
- for 100db cut low and highs

The lowest one was useful, brought up some depth and details while keeping it confortable.
And the highest one didn't really work as intended. I realized that the road noise was naturally masked by the loudness effect at high level (high level means usually high speed for me).
So the compensation on the highs was good, but the low end should have been let untouched.
Well anyway I drop the idea as I just don't bother with settings for that now, and just listen to more reasonable levels.
But I would appreciate if someone builds this feature in a box, or a plugin.

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Old 01-10-2018   #952
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Actually Audison bit one/bit one hd has a feature called dynamic eq. It allows you to tune 2 different eq curve at Teo different vol levels. So not the three u are looking at but two would also fit what u are trying to achieve with the loudness curve.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Safe bet, it’s too easy to spend time on a target even if we know we have other issues uncovered.

About the loudness compensation, I tried this some time ago when I first got my horns and used to listen loud:


3 settings basically:
- for 70/75db > boost low and highs
- for 85/90db untouched
- for 100db cut low and highs

The lowest one was useful, brought up some depth and details while keeping it confortable.
And the highest one didn't really work as intended. I realized that the road noise was naturally masked by the loudness effect at high level (high level means usually high speed for me).
So the compensation on the highs was good, but the low end should have been let untouched.
Well anyway I drop the idea as I just don't bother with settings for that now, and just listen to more reasonable levels.
But I would appreciate if someone builds this feature in a box, or a plugin.
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Old 01-10-2018   #953
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by cycfari View Post
I used a center speakers setup with MS-8 in my previous car for 2 seat listening. MP1 bass is heavy. I am now just running APL1 to MS8, 3 way active + small active sub.
Interesting. What does ms8 addition do? I understand it makes fir eq based on a number of location so that it sounds good in those locations?
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Old 01-15-2018   #954
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverlim View Post
Interesting. What does ms8 addition do? I understand it makes fir eq based on a number of location so that it sounds good in those locations?
MS-8 auto-tune the time alignment for different seats. Also if you have a center channel, the center stage will be perfect with added advantage of L7 processing.

However there is not much self tuning options other then EQ & Gain.Correct crossovers selection and amplifier gains still needs to be dialled in before the autotune,

From my personal experience, MS8 is an easy setup for novice but it wont give u the perfect sound.
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Old 01-29-2018   #955
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Dreams come true
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Right now, the most compact version is stack of 4 PCBs 75 mm in high.
The all in one board 10 channel unit is a dream.
I am thinking about some kind of "kickstarter" project.
But it is too much business management for an engineer to do that.

The target or parametric eq can be used for each particular unit/driver/way
and for all system as master.
You can use ordinary parametric EQ interface and/or input as a curve in form of txt file.
10 channel unit with master EQ on input (12 FIR cores) is ready to serve demanding customers : )



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Old 01-29-2018   #956
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Dreams come true


10 channel unit with master EQ on input (12 FIR cores) is ready to serve demanding customers : )



The board looks pretty small. Please do one for car installation
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Old 01-30-2018   #957
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post


10 channel unit with master EQ on input (12 FIR cores) is ready to serve demanding customers : )

Great news, Raimonds! Will keep it in mind for my next install.
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Old 01-30-2018   #958
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Has anybody tried this Amarra player with in-built convolution feature?

Amarra 4 Luxe

It has a native support for DSD64/128 files and option for impulse response correction "on the go". For IOS 10x and Win 8 (and higher) users.

It seams that this player allows to use ordinary units (f.ex. iphone/ipod/ipad) as a source in the car with the stock install for better sounding. Using APL Workshop, one will be able to create (with the help of Raimonds) own IRS-files for correction of the sound in a car.

Sounds impressive, am I wrong?
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Old 01-30-2018   #959
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Dreams come true


10 channel unit with master EQ on input (12 FIR cores) is ready to serve demanding customers : )
Well golly, looks I need some of those in my Home Theater rack!

Does it use the same software as in this post?: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...8-post836.html

2 channels in and 10 out?

What's the price tag on that?

Is the white switch on the front a second power switch, or a bypass switch?

Are those digital in/out RCA plugs inside the unit functional?

When the top comes off, the tops come off!
1986 Bronco Build
2010 Miata Build
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Old 01-31-2018   #960
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
I have to say, I love the APL.

But, my experience with the VST has not been very ideal. First, foobar2000 works perfect with the VST, but I hate foobar2000 as my media player...not very carpc friendly, small text etc.
Not quite correct. There are some versions of foobar2000, which are designed to be used in a car environment.

There is just one example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iodM_cT2uFM

As soon it is a Windows version (carPC) - you are able to use the APL VST plugin fot it.
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Old 02-02-2018   #961
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Dreams come true


10 channel unit with master EQ on input (12 FIR cores) is ready to serve demanding customers : )



OK What does this mean... 12 FIR cores, and 10 channels?
Is the FIR based EQ done on the left and right independently, and then the remaining 5 channels per side are bandpass crossover outputs?

If the EQ is done on the input then what happens in the passband? It seems like ripples would be different on the low-side and high-side speakers, so the phase correction would need to be different on each speaker??

And it sort of seems like it is similar to a DDRC-88A, but with access to the FIR filters - or am I wrong?

Also, I could not exactly see this on the APL home page.
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Old 02-02-2018   #962
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Check here: https://www.facebook.com/aplaudio

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Old 02-03-2018   #963
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
OK What does this mean... 12 FIR cores, and 10 channels?
Is the FIR based EQ done on the left and right independently, and then the remaining 5 channels per side are bandpass crossover outputs?

If the EQ is done on the input then what happens in the passband? It seems like ripples would be different on the low-side and high-side speakers, so the phase correction would need to be different on each speaker??

And it sort of seems like it is similar to a DDRC-88A, but with access to the FIR filters - or am I wrong?

Also, I could not exactly see this on the APL home page.
Thank you for questions!

You should compare results of mentioned “similar” solution in fields of car audio competitions and pro audio. And how much they trust themselves in terms of investment to develop own hardware.
.
You should also check how far in “moon shining” they are from original work
https://www.google.com/patents/US8121302
published at May 18, 2005

Real competitor products are Dolby Lake and Fouraudio HD2

Thanks to Elgrosso for pointing to preliminary press release on APL’s facebook

FIR based EQ should be done in each of bands.
Then final FIR based EQ should be used on overall system (master EQ on input) to fine tune small residual crossover tuning errors and to use any targets.

10 channels means 10 analog output channels.
12 FIR cores means 12 independent FIR filters with 4096 taps each (in first release, later will be more, especially for 96 and 192kHz versions)
Any of FIRs can be any kind of filter and are not tighten to some bandpass or else.
As example, the unit can be configured as 12 channels EQ

The detailed correction of each speaker makes crossover “ideal” with complementary ripples, amplitude and phase responses. This actually is making all the value for use FIRs on each band.

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Old 02-03-2018   #964
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Thank you for questions!

You should compare results of mentioned “similar” solution in fields of car audio competitions and pro audio. And how much they trust themselves in terms of investment to develop own hardware.
.
You should also check how far in “moon shining” they are from original work
https://www.google.com/patents/US8121302
published at May 18, 2005

Real competitor products are Dolby Lake and Fouraudio HD2

Thanks to Elgrosso for pointing to preliminary press release on APL’s facebook

FIR based EQ should be done in each of bands.
Then final FIR based EQ should be used on overall system (master EQ on input) to fine tune small residual crossover tuning errors and to use any targets.

10 channels means 10 analog output channels.
12 FIR cores means 12 independent FIR filters with 4096 taps each (in first release, later will be more, especially for 96 and 192kHz versions)
Any of FIRs can be any kind of filter and are not tighten to some bandpass or else.
As example, the unit can be configured as 12 channels EQ

The detailed correction of each speaker makes crossover “ideal” with complementary ripples, amplitude and phase responses. This actually is making all the value for use FIRs on each band.
Ok
1) What happens on Subwoofer channels?
I think that ideally one would filter-decimate the sample rate down... but I suspect that all the cores run at full sample rate.
So should I be concerned with filter resolution in the subwoofer band?

2) would I still need something else to do time alignment?
Or is time delay conceptually the same as rotating the taps to the right or left?

3) What is this unit called?

4) What is the Euro price?

5) is it available now? Or when it is to be released?

6) how does one start? As in what software tools should I get for use in OSX?
Or do I need to run windows in a VM?
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Old 02-03-2018   #965
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I’m seriously considering it!
Any plan to port your soft on mac?

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Old 02-03-2018   #966
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
Ok
1) What happens on Subwoofer channels?
I think that ideally one would filter-decimate the sample rate down... but I suspect that all the cores run at full sample rate.
So should I be concerned with filter resolution in the subwoofer band?
You are on the button! I am considering that for 96/192 kHz.
The 4096 taps for 48kHz (85ms ir) is pretty much ok

Quote:
2) would I still need something else to do time alignment?
Or is time delay conceptually the same as rotating the taps to the right or left?
C5 software is managing this in exactly mentioned way.

Quote:
3) What is this unit called?
APL1012a
Quote:
4) What is the Euro price?
negotiated from deal to deal

Quote:
5) is it available now? Or when it is to be released?
Yes, please make your order!

Quote:
6) how does one start? As in what software tools should I get for use in OSX?
Or do I need to run windows in a VM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
I’m seriously considering it!
Any plan to port your soft on mac?
1) You need Workshop or TDA EQ for basic measurement.
2) TDA - for crossover tuning, time alignment
3) C5 - for all the management.

You will need Windows on VM for Workshop to run on mac.
TDA series programs and C5 can be ported to mac with
pretty much not so big effort.
But it depends on your (customers) support to this project.
It was considered as some kind of "kikstarter" project at August last year.
Now, it is ready for orders without that.
But anyway, your early orders will help a lot.

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Old 02-04-2018   #967
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

OK...

Q7) So would subwoofer management be a software implementation - with some filter-decimate brickwall convolution 'pre-stage' that can happen in the future?

Q8) Are the DSPs cores fixed point or floating point?
I have an analogue radio/CD that I was set on using... But then I got a new (used) unit that has a digital out?
The amps are old school jobs that are on RCAs, so I am thinking about whether I need to worry about low level signals and whether at quieter volumes I will be running out of bit depth... (The higher sample rates should help) The new radio/CD does 24bit CDs, but I have no idea what happens with the aux inputs from say an iPad, or an iPad into a GPS-aux input with a bluetooth phone, and then all the mess back into one of the radio's 2 aux inputs.
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Old 02-04-2018   #968
 
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post

1) You need Workshop or TDA EQ for basic measurement.
2) TDA - for crossover tuning, time alignment
3) C5 - for all the management.

You will need Windows on VM for Workshop to run on mac.
TDA series programs and C5 can be ported to mac with
pretty much not so big effort.
But it depends on your (customers) support to this project.
It was considered as some kind of "kikstarter" project at August last year.
Now, it is ready for orders without that.
But anyway, your early orders will help a lot.
Very interesting!
C5/TDA running on mac, that’s the trigger I needed.
Workshop I'm ok to play it on VM as it's not so often.
Ok then email now, thank you Raimonds.

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Old 02-04-2018   #969
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
OK...

Q7) So would subwoofer management be a software implementation
Anyway, it must be hardware.
The good idea is to use as short FIRs as possible - to have as small "time smearing" as possible. 4096 taps can be sufficient for sub processing with that in mind.


Quote:
Q8) Are the DSPs cores fixed point or floating point?
They are no floating point as we know that from computer science.
They are floating point in terms that the point is floating to keep max accuracy for all computation - no quantization used till output.

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Old 02-05-2018   #970
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Safe bet, it’s too easy to spend time on a target even if we know we have other issues uncovered.

About the loudness compensation, I tried this some time ago when I first got my horns and used to listen loud:


3 settings basically:
- for 70/75db > boost low and highs
- for 85/90db untouched
- for 100db cut low and highs

The lowest one was useful, brought up some depth and details while keeping it confortable.
And the highest one didn't really work as intended. I realized that the road noise was naturally masked by the loudness effect at high level (high level means usually high speed for me).
So the compensation on the highs was good, but the low end should have been let untouched.
Well anyway I drop the idea as I just don't bother with settings for that now, and just listen to more reasonable levels.
But I would appreciate if someone builds this feature in a box, or a plugin.
Ok ^that^ is pretty slick!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Anyway, it must be hardware.
The good idea is to use as short FIRs as possible - to have as small "time smearing" as possible. 4096 taps can be sufficient for sub processing with that in mind.
...
I saw on the C5 photo that the sample rate was selectable for each channel. If there was a ADC running at 4K, then one could probably do the subwoofer with 256 taps? Or do all the channels need to be the same sample rate? (I understand aliasing and Nyquist theorem.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
...
They are no floating point as we know that from computer science.
They are floating point in terms that the point is floating to keep max accuracy for all computation - no quantization used till output.
Ok - I did not do computer science at uni, however I seem to be doing it most of the time. I recall Estonia having the best internet in the world (a few years ago), so I assume Latvia is similarly advanced in technology? - based just on proximity alone.
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Old 02-05-2018   #971
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Default Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I don’t think the sampling frequency can be arbitrary set due to hardware but I could be wrong...

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Old 03-18-2018   #972
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Hi,
Take a look on car version of APL1012!



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Old 03-18-2018   #973
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

How soon can we expect the car version of the APL1012 to be available for purchase? Any pricing yet?

I’m going back and forth between going with APL-1S unit or the Dirac DDRC 22D or DDRC 88a. This car version APL1012 seems to be the most ideal!!
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Old 03-18-2018   #974
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

Nice Raimonds!

Is there a connection for the ribbon cable of the preset switch on the outside of the enclosure?


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Old 03-18-2018   #975
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Default Re: Comprehensive Review: " APL1 " - Advanced DSP / EQ / Phase Correction Unit

I also noticed that there is no optical input?
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