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Old 07-12-2006   #51
 
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Here is a drawing with dimensions of this sub. I draw up all my subs to make sure they fit in my cad drawn enclosures. This drawing was made from measurements I took off the sub so there dead on.


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Old 07-12-2006   #52
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

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Originally Posted by Mike Hall
The sub does have a 5" mounting depth like it said on PE right? By the way what size should the cut out be? I have a boxed designed up which will fit all 3 subs. Each in a .45 cu ft which includes the sub and enternal bracing. Should I have a chamber for each sub or can i let them share airspace?

Mike
If you can make it seperate chambers this will help in the long run including the all important flex free cabinet.
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Old 07-12-2006   #53
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

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Originally Posted by Mike Hall
Here is a drawing with dimensions of this sub. I draw up all my subs to make sure they fit in my cad drawn enclosures. This drawing was made from measurements I took off the sub so there dead on.


Mike
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Old 07-12-2006   #54
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hall
Here is a drawing with dimensions of this sub. I draw up all my subs to make sure they fit in my cad drawn enclosures. This drawing was made from measurements I took off the sub so there dead on.


Mike
Lol, nice. Is that A-Cad?

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Old 07-12-2006   #55
 
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Yeah its autocad. I did this for my diamond audio 12s. LOL

mike
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Old 02-08-2007   #56
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

I'm curious if these has been any progress on the F250? I have a pair of 10" Dayton HO waiting to go in my F250 crew cab and I have been beating my head on box design. I really want to get them down firing under the back seat because I think it sounds better and I want to use the back wall for my amps. And thanks for measurement drawing Mike.

-Brent
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Old 02-10-2007   #57
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

are you guys sure ? 0.45 sealed for a 10" sub and it sounds good ?
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Old 02-11-2007   #58
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

.45 is really going to limit that driver, I tried that, it needs more room.




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Old 02-11-2007   #59
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

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Originally Posted by chad
.45 is really going to limit that driver, I tried that, it needs more room.
Really? When I do the numbers I get .334 ft^3 for a Qtc of .707

How doe the sub act in the smaller vs the larger enclosure?

-Brent
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Old 02-11-2007   #60
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Smaller..poor low end, poor efficiency

larger.....more low end (lower cutoff) if it's bumpy then EQ, you will need the efficiency.

Mine's in the larger AND vented. It rocks, I had to do a couple cuts to keep it from getting flabby.

Regardless of driver .334 FT^3 is a TINY box for low end duty. We are building a subwoofer here

I'll bet you that you will be unhappy with anything smaller than 2/3CuFt unless you are using an assload of them in a small car and have a BUNCH of power.

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Old 02-11-2007   #61
 
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

I'm having a hard time understanding how the size of the enclosure, regardless of how small it is, is an issue if the sub in question is designed for that size enclosure. If a Dayton has a QTC of .707 in .334 ft3 shouldn't that be pretty much ideal?

For instance, I just purchased a Diyma 12 and planned on using the recommended .5 ft3 enclosure which also yields a QTC of .707.

Are you saying this just in regards to just the Daytons performance or is your feeling across the board that all sub drivers should be in larger than enclosures that provide a .707 QTC?

I mean .334 ft3 is tiny for a 10", but I thought one of it's selling points was that fact, much like it is with the Diyma as .5 ft3 is very small too for a 12".

I'm confused be this, as npdang seems to feel enclosure size is not all that important. These two schools of thought seem to be at odds with each other.
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Old 02-12-2007   #62
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
Smaller..poor low end, poor efficiency

Regardless of driver .334 FT^3 is a TINY box for low end duty. We are building a subwoofer here

I'll bet you that you will be unhappy with anything smaller than 2/3CuFt unless you are using an assload of them in a small car and have a BUNCH of power.

Chad
I'm in the same boat as 89Grand, I just don't understand why a smaller box is bad if that is what the driver was designed for.

I will be pushing two of them, and giving each 500 W RMS, which IMO is a bunch of power. I came up with my box size and power from reading the dayton spec sheet, is this the wrong way to go at it?

-Brent
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Old 02-12-2007   #63
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Hey knock yourselves out. I put mine in a .75 CuFt enclosure and started adding wood a little bit at a time to see how small I could go. In a smaller enclosure I was just not digging it. Eventually I ended up venting it because I was getting the feelings of lack of output like many others have. Problem solved, now it flat out gets at it! Granted, I will admit, the graphs don't look much different from .66 to .334 but for some reason I was hearing a big difference in enclosure sizes.

After using it in a vented enclosure I will not go back. Maybe it has something to do with the 5dB of gain at 40 cycles and 4.5dB of gain at 30 cycles. Folks, 5dB is almost the equavalent of QUADRUPLING your power at that frequency. At 22 cycles the boxes have equavalent gain and the vented falls off fromt here, but i don't care about much of anything below 22. cycles anyway.

Before venting the amp ran hot as hell and even the dust dome for the driver was getting rather warm, excursion was HUGE. Now the excursion is MUCH less, the amp runs cooler and the driver does not get warm. Methinks that although most SQ guys cannot swallow the "vented box pill" that it's the only way to go with this driver and it sounds GREAT!

The graph that has been posted a zillion times... Guess which one is vented?



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Old 02-12-2007   #64
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Like so many other things, the idea that ported is for boom, and sealed is for SQ is a misnomer. A properly built vented enclosure can sound very, very good. I use the Dayton HO 12's, in a vented enclosure, and I've heard many a sealed box with much more expensive drivers not sound near as good as these. The HO drivers are indeed designed for a vented enclosure.

Unfortunately, one of my 12's has become a casualty of the cold weather. I've been debating on trying a different set of drivers, but in the end, I have to say that I'm extremely happy with HO 12, and will end up just replacing the one I lost.

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Old 02-12-2007   #65
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

What happened to the driver in the cold weather, it's nasty eh? Are you ready for tonight, let it snow! i notice that mine is very much affected by temp below say 20 degrees (for those not in the know, it's been single digits and below for some time here in the big IL)




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Old 02-12-2007   #66
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Driver still works, but with a lot of mechanical rattling. Gonna let it warm up and see if I can mess with it, or if it fixes itself. Getting a new vehicle tomorrow, so everything is stripped from my current one. So, I've got quite a bit to spend money on without having to replace current equipment.

Not happy about the snow tonight. I've got a long drive to Kankakee and back tonight.

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Old 02-12-2007   #67
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

I have notice decreased output in the uber cold but it's fine after the car warms a bit (like above freezing)

Have a safe trip, congrats on the new whip!




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Old 02-12-2007   #68
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniVanMan
Like so many other things, the idea that ported is for boom, and sealed is for SQ is a misnomer. A properly built vented enclosure can sound very, very good. I use the Dayton HO 12's, in a vented enclosure, and I've heard many a sealed box with much more expensive drivers not sound near as good as these. The HO drivers are indeed designed for a vented enclosure.

Unfortunately, one of my 12's has become a casualty of the cold weather. I've been debating on trying a different set of drivers, but in the end, I have to say that I'm extremely happy with HO 12, and will end up just replacing the one I lost.
what size/tuning ported enclosure is recommended for the 12 in a car?

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Old 02-12-2007   #69
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

how come nobody has come direct and answered this simple question ?

the sub specs equate to 0.707 in a sealed 0.33 cu ft box, according to the .707 balance of low end and upper bass, it should sound similar to any other 10" that equates to 0.707 balance whether it be in 0.33 or 1.0 cu ft sealed.

I'll tell you why.....the specs given for just about any subwoofer are all MADE UP. The specs are worth just as much as phony monopoly money.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 89grand
I'm having a hard time understanding how the size of the enclosure, regardless of how small it is, is an issue if the sub in question is designed for that size enclosure. If a Dayton has a QTC of .707 in .334 ft3 shouldn't that be pretty much ideal?

For instance, I just purchased a Diyma 12 and planned on using the recommended .5 ft3 enclosure which also yields a QTC of .707.

Are you saying this just in regards to just the Daytons performance or is your feeling across the board that all sub drivers should be in larger than enclosures that provide a .707 QTC?

I mean .334 ft3 is tiny for a 10", but I thought one of it's selling points was that fact, much like it is with the Diyma as .5 ft3 is very small too for a 12".

I'm confused be this, as npdang seems to feel enclosure size is not all that important. These two schools of thought seem to be at odds with each other.
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Old 02-12-2007   #70
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

It does not recommend that box in the manual, it has no recommendations. Maybe it sounds not so great because the motor is not strong enough to deal with that small of a box. maybe I'm grabbing at straws. Tell me why the plots look ssooooooooo similar in a .67 CuFt box? then tell me why it sounds Soooo much different in those two boxes. I'm saying I HAVE choked it back to see what it would do, the audible results were stunningly different then what modeling software suggests.

Cars are spec'd with a 0-60 time, but not with a head-wind.

Modeling software does not look at motor strength well enough IMHO. The Vas, Qts, and Fs have nothing to do with motor Umph, the box will have the same response with you tapping on the cone with your finger. Unfortunately we are building a subwoofer enclosure not a conga.

now riddle me this...... What's with the .707 golden number we all obsess about? Make it go as flat as low and loud as possible with an acceptable F3 or even usable frequency response. There's no reason to stress the motor of a driver or an amplifier to meet a magic number. Get it loud and apply cut-only EQ. When I design a subwoofer system, please note I said SUBWOOFER. I look at the last part of the curve and see how loud it plays low. Note the posted graph, I'd much rather see the one flatter and lower than looking for a Q of .707. There's no sense in limiting usable low frequency extension and efficinecy in a subwoofer system to meet a magic number. Many may disagree, but playing by my personal set of rules I have made plenty of very sucessful subwoofer designs and so have other designers adhering to these ideas.

I had no idea what the driver would do when I bought it. This is why I made an ugly-ol test enclosure to play with before I glassed it in. When mine gets glassed in it's (the box) up for grabs N/C, you pay shipping, but it's heavy. But I can tell you one thing. When I looked at .334 CuFt and the plot for .667 i said Naaawww Way to the .334, it's a hunch from expierience, the hunch was right. Too little airspace, and not enough motor/amplifier, at least im my apps. But even with 1KWRMS (real power, pro amp, plenty of juice from the wall) going to it the lower volumes of airspace choked it, then I deduced... not enough motor. It's a great driver, but it's not the second son of christ.

Chad




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Old 02-12-2007   #71
 
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Well like in the case with the Diyma 12 I just bought, I have no way to measure the subs performance, and I don't have the wood working tools to contruct numerous enclosures to test it in, so I have no really choice but to take dpdangs word on the enclosure size. I mainly bought it because of it's claimed small enclosure requirements.

Hopefully it performs as I'm hoping it does in small sealed enclosure. Considering that I'm only going to be running 5.25's and I don't listen to music with 20hz tones, increased low bass extension at the cost of upper bass performance is not really what I want. I have a P880PRS so I do have some eq at my disposal if needed.
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Old 02-12-2007   #72
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

well being a tc built sub, the diyma is done right imo for small box ie: high BL (just like tC claims for their house subs). As a matter of fact i beleive its equally important for quite the opposite application, IB. if i remember correctly my old SI Magnum D2 15 (original version) had a relatively low Qts at .3 and smallish Vas for a 15" at 140L but high BL and it was a beast IB. some argue that the BL value itself isnt important as long as it's flat and symmetrical tho

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Old 02-13-2007   #73
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89grand
Well like in the case with the Diyma 12 I just bought, I have no way to measure the subs performance, and I don't have the wood working tools to contruct numerous enclosures to test it in,.

I'm in the same boat, I just don't have the time, I have plenty of tools. I built a box that was 1CuFt and started adding stuff internally to shave the size down... like scrap wood. This allowed me to see what it would do before wasting my time on fiberglass for something I did not want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 89grand
Hopefully it performs as I'm hoping it does in small sealed enclosure. Considering that I'm only going to be running 5.25's and I don't listen to music with 20hz tones, increased low bass extension at the cost of upper bass performance is not really what I want. I have a P880PRS so I do have some eq at my disposal if needed.
Me too, this is why I made my last post. Note that the sealed does better than the ported below 22 cycles, and I said i could care less below 22 cycles Get me down to 30 cycles flatish and loud and I'm pretty much a happy camper! I'll slice and dice EQ from there and further reduce the workload of the amp.


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Old 03-03-2007   #74
 
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

What are the specs on the ported enclosure you ended up with? I guess I might just use two of the three subs I bought in a ported enclosure behind the rear seat of my F250.

Thanks
Mike
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Old 03-03-2007   #75
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Default Re: Dayton Reference 10"HO

It ended up being between .667 and .7 CuFt and tuned to around 30 cycles. Could be 29, could be 31, but I do believe it's 30 cycles.

Chad




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