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Old 09-16-2015   #26
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

I can honestly say the Sinfoni lower line of components will surprise even the most critical car audio audiophile. The Eroico line up is amazing as are the rest of Sinfoni's line up.

crxsir121, I know where some 60.1's are for the taking if you feel the itch sir..

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Old 09-16-2015   #27
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ_TSX View Post
cajunner:
There is no elephant in the room, nothing secret nor nefarious taking place.... So lower your shields.... put the phasers away.... all is good here....

So here's my long-winded disclosure:

I have no financial incentive. I've opened my wallet to pay for all the Sinfoni equipment going into my Acura TSX... There are no hidden proponents... I simply BELIEVE in the brand through personal use of various Sinfoni products over the course of roughly 14 years... During that time I've tried MANY other different products and found myself ALWAYS yearning to return to Sinfoni.

Let me also say, there is no magic pixie dust.... The Sinfoni products are simply very well designed and the components installed on the boards have been painstakingly selected with sound quality in mind.

It's my experience that Sinfoni does everything with a purpose in mind...
  • That bolted together basket - creates a near perfect non-resonant framework for the moving parts of the CF165W to operate and do its job.
  • The hand painted cones - combined with the extremely stiff CF cone allows the speaker to nearly be a perfect piston without any harshness...

My personal history with Sinfoni:
My love affair with Sinfoni began in 2001 when I met the U.S. Distributor at the time. He and I formed a friendship and even discussed my working with him to promote the products and brand. It was at this time I acquired my first Sinfoni products – one (1) 45.2, one (1) 90.2 and one (1) 150.2. It was at this point I fell head over heels in love with the signature Sinfoni sound.

Over the years I continued to enjoy various Sinfoni products including the High Definition 60.1 mono blocks; these wonderful amplifiers remain some of my favorite.

In 2005, after learning that Sinfoni did not have a distributor for the U.S. market, I contacted the owner and expressed interest in representing the brand. After many discussions we both came to an agreement and I became the U.S. Distributor and remained so until mid-2010. At that time my family grew by two and it was decided I would not have the time to work my day job, be a good husband, be a good new father AND represent the brand properly. Sinfoni and I discussed options and I released my rights to the distributorship.

Years go by… Now it’s 2015 and Sinfoni has a new distributor for the U.S., Emilios of Audio Excellent, and I’ve been very fortunate to form a friendship with him. For those that have dealt with Emilios you know Sinfoni is in very capable hands.

In short, I know the Sinfoni line of products very well. I know the amount of time spent in developing the amplifiers and speakers they offer. I know and share the philosophy that Sinfoni ownership embraces...

I simply want to share what I believe is the most well rounded mobile products available today with the forum members. Simple as that...
Seriously? If I had a budget of say $10-12 G, I'd spend about 3G on equipment, processing, speakers, amps, deadening etc and pay 5 G to someone like KP, Matt Roberts, Big Red, John or my buddy Macleod (assuming they'd agree). I'd let them keep the car for 3-4 weeks, to work their magic. With the balance I'd buy something for my wife and kids and have enough left over for a good meal somewhere nice.

I can guarantee that the car would sound 100X better than one with $15 G invested in equipment. How it sounds in your garage set up and how it will sound in the car, are two totally different things. Good sound in a car is 70% tuning, 20% placement and 10% equipment. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ_TSX View Post
Now, granted... in vehicle would be best... but I do feel confident I was able to attain a very respectable impression of how these will sound in car...

In short, I know what I'm doing and what to listen for....
Really?

Look, I'm sure the speakers are of excellent build quality and sonic performance, but for a start, ANY speaker from $50 junk to the $5,000 two way that you have, will all sound much better in a room than in the car, and I'm talking night and day difference. For a start the imaging and staging you experienced will be out the window and the tonal balance will be all messed up. All that has to be recreated with tuning, and I'm not talking about pulling out the RTA and mike and balancing L/R with a touch of eq etc. Doing this will improve things a bit, but it will still sound like crapsville when you pit it against humble $500 speakers in a room.

You're not going to get any speaker to sound anything like it does in a proper room, unless you can hear the difference between the sound in a room and in your car and you know how to use an eq. By all means enjoy the product and I'm sure that they are excellent speakers, and if they sound as good in a car, well then I guess its money well spent. If however you hear a huge difference, then find and pay one of the top tuners to set it up for you. The 70/20/10 rule is one of the immutable rules of car audio.

HU : Pioneer p-80rsII DSP Bit Ten Mid Bass : Polk SR 6500 Tweets : Scan-Speak 3004 Sub : MM 2124 4 Ch Genesis Profile Four Ultra Mono : Genesis DM

Last edited by sqnut; 09-16-2015 at 08:03 AM..
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Old 09-16-2015   #28
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

sqnut:
Thanks for your input...
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Old 09-16-2015   #29
 
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

They are pretty but I expected the tweeter to go lower.

Oh well
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Old 09-16-2015   #30
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ_TSX View Post
Claydo:
Also, NEVER let price dictate quality... Just because a product is expensive and uses exotic materials that doesn't always equate to true audiophile performance.... I've personally used products in the past that were quite pricy and found myself disappointed... That is never the case with Sinfoni products. That's why I always go back to the brand... In my eyes, the Sinfoni brand is the watershed for mobile audiophile products.

Yea, look at Critical Mass....

I really love the build quality of the Sinfoni lineup. One day maybe....one day.

Joe Wallis
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Lexicon HU, Italia Hi-Fi BL-5 3-way Active, 4 BL-3 8" subwoofers, PHD 4075x for mids and tweets, 2260x for midbass, and 11100x for subs. Ask me about Italia Hi-Fi.
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Old 09-16-2015   #31
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Guys, please don't get all hung up on specs... Looking at a list of numbers and fractions on paper is one thing... BUT how the two drivers interact with each other really is the most important aspect to pay attention to... Sinfoni designed the Grandioso as a system... to be used together and complement each other...

They work together fantastically...
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Old 09-16-2015   #32
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Also want to say, these speakers are due to be installed in my Acura in October. I'll be happy to provide demo's to anyone that would like to listen - with a proper tune or without a tune....
I do plan to attend some MECA shows in 2016...

Last edited by Audi_SQ4; 09-16-2015 at 08:24 AM..
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Old 09-16-2015   #33
 
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Can you show the graph? I was about to order the M class a few months ago but I don't need to change anything right now
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Old 09-16-2015   #34
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqnut View Post
Seriously? If I had a budget of say $10-12 G, I'd spend about 3G on equipment, processing, speakers, amps, deadening etc and pay 5 G to someone like KP, Matt Roberts, Big Red, John or my buddy Macleod (assuming they'd agree). I'd let them keep the car for 3-4 weeks, to work their magic. With the balance I'd buy something for my wife and kids and have enough left over for a good meal somewhere nice.

I can guarantee that the car would sound 100X better than one with $15 G invested in equipment. How it sounds in your garage set up and how it will sound in the car, are two totally different things. Good sound in a car is 70% tuning, 20% placement and 10% equipment. YMMV.



Really?

Look, I'm sure the speakers are of excellent build quality and sonic performance, but for a start, ANY speaker from $50 junk to the $5,000 two way that you have, will all sound much better in a room than in the car, and I'm talking night and day difference. For a start the imaging and staging you experienced will be out the window and the tonal balance will be all messed up. All that has to be recreated with tuning, and I'm not talking about pulling out the RTA and mike and balancing L/R with a touch of eq etc. Doing this will improve things a bit, but it will still sound like crapsville when you pit it against humble $500 speakers in a room.

You're not going to get any speaker to sound anything like it does in a proper room, unless you can hear the difference between the sound in a room and in your car and you know how to use an eq. By all means enjoy the product and I'm sure that they are excellent speakers, and if they sound as good in a car, well then I guess its money well spent. If however you hear a huge difference, then find and pay one of the top tuners to set it up for you. The 70/20/10 rule is one of the immutable rules of car audio.
sqnut:
I feel I need to address the above quote a bit further...

YES the interior of a vehicle does change things... but does it completely change the character of the speakers ? NO it doesn't...

It does introduce some spikes and /or nulls depending upon installation due to reflective surfaces... However the actually character of the sound doesn't completely change...

Plus, please know I took great care in setting up my listening sessions... I didn't just place them in a equidistant setting as most would in a home audio setting... They were put in various locations with the intention of exploring many different off-axis responses... at one point I literally had them pointing at each other with myself off-center to the left about three feet away...
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Old 09-16-2015   #35
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ_TSX View Post
sqnut:
I feel I need to address the above quote a bit further...

YES the interior of a vehicle does change things... but does it completely change the character of the speakers ?
1" from the cone no, at your ears? Absolutely yes. Look at Andy's graphs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ_TSX View Post
It does introduce some spikes and /or nulls depending upon installation due to reflective surfaces... However the actually character of the sound doesn't completely change...
So the response changes totally but it doesn't sound different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ_TSX View Post
Plus, please know I took great care in setting up my listening sessions... I didn't just place them in a equidistant setting as most would in a home audio setting... They were put in various locations with the intention of exploring many different off-axis responses... at one point I literally had them pointing at each other with myself off-center to the left about three feet away...
But the room, the room was totally different.

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Old 09-16-2015   #36
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

sqnut:
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you...
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Old 09-16-2015   #37
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeppinkdiver View Post
I can honestly say the Sinfoni lower line of components will surprise even the most critical car audio audiophile. The Eroico line up is amazing as are the rest of Sinfoni's line up.

crxsir121, I know where some 60.1's are for the taking if you feel the itch sir..
Soo tempting, but they are way out of my budget now.
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Old 09-16-2015   #38
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Understand sir....
If you can swing them... you will love them I do believe.... Just velvety smooth...
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Old 09-16-2015   #39
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Originally posted by sqnut: I can guarantee that the car would sound 100X better than one with $15 G invested in equipment. How it sounds in your garage set up and how it will sound in the car, are two totally different things. Good sound in a car is 70% tuning, 20% placement and 10% equipment. YMMV.

Jeremy, it seems like he thinks you plan on just "slapping" this $5000/6000 set of comps in your car with no regard for placement, tuning, staging or imaging. AND he can gaurentee his lower line gear with proper install will sound (100X) better than your ill attemp install with your expensive speakers.

Maybe, just maybe Jeremy is familiar with these differences.. Maybe Jeremy knows it will sound considerably different in a vehicle given its enviroment. It seems to me efforts were made to try and replicate a car interior by way of speaker placement and location as best he could. Although the room size and materials are completely different and I agree will react very different. I am sure this was not Jeremy's first rodeo setting up a car audio listening sessions out side of his car, perhaps he knows from experience also the differences he will hear between the two -from experience!

With anyones attempt to audition car audio outside of the vehicle it is simply "my opinion" and attempt to hear what to expect from the drivers/equipment. I feel Jeremy met his goals in this audition, he listened for several hours and different days trying to find subtle differences from music he knows very well. In his audition he noticed differences that were pleasing to him and also differences that leaned toward (much better) than anything else he had auditioned the same way.

I wonder how these $5-6000 comps will sound installed properly by a shop that knows all to well the 70/20/10 rule, I can imagine we will hear Jeremys impressions of just that very soon! Maybe great equipment installed properly following all the known rules of car audio will produce something (100x) better than cheap speakers done the write way.. Probably not, but I bet they will blow any audiophile away.

Good job Jeremy, thanks again for your input.

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Old 11-05-2015   #40
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

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annnnnd...

yeah.

let's completely obstruct the elephant in the room using retail pricing as our hedge, but I'm afraid the metaphorical comparison merrymaking is cutting through my defenses, the shields are at 50% and fading, captain...

I mean, I'm all for some rhetorical jibber-jabber, but this praise for all things Sinfoni has me a little concerned.

Is there a financial incentive, is there a hidden proponent to these spurious reviews that fit a pattern, built by discount template perhaps?

Or is the Sinfoni now eclipsing all that came before it, using car audio marketing spiels to bolster the actuality which is that Sinfoni is truly a shift in the rankings and some hand-painted cones with bolt-together baskets have become some kind of epitomization of audio truth?

hmm...


not sure if someone's been fishing or not, but I'm feeling a mite peckish for some sea-bass about now...
Simply put, you will never understand until you hear them. Remember how many changes I made to my truck? Thousands spent. Sinfoni went in and they will never come out.
Do yourself a favor and find someone near you and just listen to them.

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Old 11-05-2015   #41
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Simply put, you will never understand until you hear them. Remember how many changes I made to my truck? Thousands spent. Sinfoni went in and they will never come out.
Do yourself a favor and find someone near you and just listen to them.

Very well put sir !

I'm greatly enjoying my commute each day now that the Grandioso are installed...
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqnut View Post
Seriously? If I had a budget of say $10-12 G, I'd spend about 3G on equipment, processing, speakers, amps, deadening etc and pay 5 G to someone like KP, Matt Roberts, Big Red, John or my buddy Macleod (assuming they'd agree). I'd let them keep the car for 3-4 weeks, to work their magic. With the balance I'd buy something for my wife and kids and have enough left over for a good meal somewhere nice.

I can guarantee that the car would sound 100X better than one with $15 G invested in equipment. How it sounds in your garage set up and how it will sound in the car, are two totally different things. Good sound in a car is 70% tuning, 20% placement and 10% equipment. YMMV.



Really?

Look, I'm sure the speakers are of excellent build quality and sonic performance, but for a start, ANY speaker from $50 junk to the $5,000 two way that you have, will all sound much better in a room than in the car, and I'm talking night and day difference. For a start the imaging and staging you experienced will be out the window and the tonal balance will be all messed up. All that has to be recreated with tuning, and I'm not talking about pulling out the RTA and mike and balancing L/R with a touch of eq etc. Doing this will improve things a bit, but it will still sound like crapsville when you pit it against humble $500 speakers in a room.

You're not going to get any speaker to sound anything like it does in a proper room, unless you can hear the difference between the sound in a room and in your car and you know how to use an eq. By all means enjoy the product and I'm sure that they are excellent speakers, and if they sound as good in a car, well then I guess its money well spent. If however you hear a huge difference, then find and pay one of the top tuners to set it up for you. The 70/20/10 rule is one of the immutable rules of car audio.
While I agree with you on the rule. The percentage is just off track. I will put it as 50% being your equipment, 35 - 40% tuning and 10 -15 % placement. From where I come from, we have no grand installers. You compromise your Tuning and placement to luck. With changing my equipment I have seen major leaps in performances, of course with a little help in tuning though. Sinfoni being my final leap, the leap that I am finally satisfied with, after the thousands I have already spent.
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Old 02-11-2016   #43
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Default Re: Sinfoni Grandioso - My Thoughts

How is everything sounding now that it's more broken in Jeremy?

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