APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review - Page 3 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 06-12-2018   #51
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
Whaaaaaaaat?!

Does this mean I can plug my iPhone directly into it?
Not my one at least. You'll have to ask Raimonds about the different versions...

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Old 06-12-2018   #52
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Email sent!

This would simplify things greatly! No more silly HDMI audio strippers, BT streamers, or other nonsense between the phone and processor.

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Old 06-14-2018   #53
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
I will do a separate little video how to measure and how to use the software in the how-to section later!
Curious if you have made a tutorial on this, think Im gonna swap my Mosconi 6to8v8 + APL VST for one of these units. I learn visually, so your vid would be very welcomed!
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Old 06-14-2018   #54
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
Curious if you have made a tutorial on this, think Im gonna swap my Mosconi 6to8v8 + APL VST for one of these units. I learn visually, so your vid would be very welcomed!
me too
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Old 06-14-2018   #55
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Just seen this and now it has the old curiosity wanting to know more... So I am definitely keeping an eye on this.
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Old 06-15-2018   #56
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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The three potentiometers came with the unit and thereís plastic knobs included but I bought other ones instead.
Could you elaborate more regarding these knobs, specifically what you ended up using instead of the plastic knobs that came provided? Did you get them from Raimonds or somewhere else?

Just purchased the 48khz model, hope to have in hand in a few weeks!
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Old 06-15-2018   #57
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Had a little miscommunication, mine is under way.
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Old 06-15-2018   #58
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
Curious if you have made a tutorial on this, think Im gonna swap my Mosconi 6to8v8 + APL VST for one of these units. I learn visually, so your vid would be very welcomed!


Next week. Iím super busy right now. Finishing a large job this weekend then Iíll start working on this

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Old 06-15-2018   #59
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Could you elaborate more regarding these knobs, specifically what you ended up using instead of the plastic knobs that came provided? Did you get them from Raimonds or somewhere else?



Just purchased the 48khz model, hope to have in hand in a few weeks!

I bought mine from tme.eu.

The ones that are supplied with the unit are plastic and quite large (22-23mm in diameter). I got myself aluminum ones with smaller outer diameter.

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Old 06-16-2018   #60
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Would you still use TDA for time alignment, or does C5 incorporate some type of TA measurement built in?

edit: nevermind, I saw Raimonds answer in the APL1 thread. You still use Workshop and TDA as usual, then C5 for management in the unit.

Last edited by crackinhedz; 06-16-2018 at 06:14 PM..
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Old 06-16-2018   #61
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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I bought mine from tme.eu
I visited this website but there were literally about 500 "knobs".

Many looked like they were used in other configurations, so didn't know how to narrow it down to something that works with the APL. Is there a specific 'type' or 'size' I should look for? Thanks for the guidance!
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Old 06-16-2018   #62
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
I visited this website but there were literally about 500 "knobs".



Many looked like they were used in other configurations, so didn't know how to narrow it down to something that works with the APL. Is there a specific 'type' or 'size' I should look for? Thanks for the guidance!


722 to be exact. Mine are OKW A1418260. At least the smaller two.

You want 6mm shaft diameter, then choose whatever style, material, size from the filter menu.

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Old 06-16-2018   #63
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

thanks! 👍
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Old 06-26-2018   #64
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

I'm still looking for a manual for using the software for this unit. Is this not posted somewhere yet?

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Old 06-26-2018   #65
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Not to knock Raimonds, but he seems to operate in the same way a lot of the Pro-A/V world operates: No manuals

Last week I finally went to a class to learn a pice of software I've already been using for three years. It just seems like the way things work in the Pro-A/V world.

I *should* have some time to work something up next week, if I do I'll run it by Raimonds for accuracy before posting it.

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Old 06-26-2018   #66
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

There is a manual ready.

I was gonna make a basic workflow to go along with it before posting, should be up soon. Just waiting for Raimonds to reply.

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Old 07-02-2018   #67
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdrugs View Post
May I ask what are the drawbacks to a fir filter
Added noise, group delay, solution artifact ect... if any..
...
One drawback might be that some understanding of DSP theory would be needed to really make the most of it.

On the flip side it means that one may not need to understand convolution, or the maths behind the filters, but certainly understanding the fundamentals of what is happening are an advantage.

If one was a EE using MATLAB, then it would be ideal... and if one was theory adverse, then it may not be an advantage unless they had an installer with was familiar with FIR based DSP theory.

But I may be somewhat biased...
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Old 07-02-2018   #68
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Sorry, been really busy for a few days. I'm working on the promised workflow guide. I'll have it done by the end of the week.

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Old 07-02-2018   #69
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Sorry, been really busy for a few days. I'm working on the promised workflow guide. I'll have it done by the end of the week.
I'm very curious how close my workflow got to yours, considering that I just poked at stuff in C5 to see what it does.

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Old 07-04-2018   #70
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Hello there.

Here are some photos of my APL1012 .

I bought the 96Khz version with coax, optical and USB HD audio in (up to 192kHz/24bit). Total cost of the unit as a bundle together with TDA, Workshop, and C5 was 1800Euro delivered.

I have also attached a photo of my volume , sub volume and preset selector installation.


This is quite an amazing and unique unit ! Once one understands the philosophy of it ( a procedure which actually took me some time as i was totally unfamiliar with the whole APL idea ) the goal of achieving great sound in the car becomes a matter of 2-3 hours.
The solidity of the soundstage and the front bass integration that i managed to get is exemplary.

The basic outline of the procedure is the following :

1. We use Workshop to take measurements for each driver (way) even without APL1012 connected. We connect the measurement soundcard's output to respective amplifier's input. Keep measurement level (volume) low (1-2 Volts on driver) to not damage high frequency drivers.
So for example for a 4way system we get 8 initial individual measurements Tweeter x 2 (L+R), Midrange x 2 (L+R) , Midbass x 2 (L+R), Sub x 2 (L+R).
Do not use space or any symbols in any project's name or filters.

2. We import these initial .fir files that we got from Workshop to respective way/channel in C5 as EQ1. We activate L+R for each way in EQ1.

In C5 Unit 1 must be subwoofer, Unit 2 Midbass, Unit 3 Midrange and Unit4 Tweeter.

3. We go to the "Curves" tab to have a look at the curves.

4. On the main tab we activate crossovers for L/R in every channel that
we are going to use by setting all checkboxes for crossovers on .We create our crossovers in "Crossover" tab. Unit must be connected to PC and ready to receive filters. We either use minimum phase Linkwitz Riley or linear phase max selectivity FIR filters. Raimonds suggests to use minimum phase L/R filters in the car. We select either 4th or 8th order . We set the desired acoustic frequencies of the crossover filters for each way. If use minimum phase filters we enable group delay correction .

5. Run the TDA program. Check levels and time delays basically between ways. TDA program can also be used to measure time delays between L/R. Adjust gains and time delays in C5 accordingly.

6. After crossovers and time delays are set Run Workshop again for left channel all ways together and then right channel all ways together.

7. These two .fir filters we got from workshop one for the left side and one for the right side we import them in C5 in "EQ2" as master.

8. Last thing to do is go to the PEQ tab to work on the parametric equalizer.We either use separate settings for each way/channel by selecting respective unit's number or we select "M" to apply a master PEQ curve for all ways.

The usual settings Q,Gain and frequency can be adjusted together with the type of filter and order. Following types are available:
BP: Bandpass ("normal" EQ filter) , Lsh: Low Shelf , Hsh: High Shelf
LshX: Low Shelf /w. adjustable 'order' , HshX: High Shelf /w. adjustable 'order', Lp X: Lowpass /w. adjustable 'order' , Hp X: Highpass /w. adjustable 'order'

I chose to load Raimonds' MP1 curve as input curve and apply it as MasterEQ by slightly modifying it. To activate MasterEQ one must go to the main page and check all MasterPEQ boxes for every way and channel.

One can load his own curves to use for PEQ.

9. Run TDA again to confirm results. Modify where necessary.

Well basically this is the procedure. The most important thing is to take careful and consistent sound power frequency response measurements with Workshop as per Raimonds suggested "painting" method and analyze these measurements to detect and try to correct any problems with the setup or installation . TDA program is extremely helpful and necessary in the process.

One thing i can not stress enough : the genius designer of this system Raimonds Skuruls is an extremely helpful and patient person even to a novice like myself. He has patiently answered dozens of emails i have sent him to help me get the grasp of the programs and their operation.
He even helped me by connecting with Teamviewer to my computer the first time after i had APL1012 installed to check my measurements and help me kick start the whole project. Raimonds' service is top notch !

To sum up, APL1012 is a unique product. By using sophisticated FIR filters which perform amplitude frequency response and phase frequency response correction and with the use of tools that offer valuable information about the system's performance, it offers the possibility to achieve amazing sound very quickly .

Most unreservedly and highly recommended !

Cheers

Andreas
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Old 07-05-2018   #71
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Raimonds Skuruls is an extremely helpful and patient person - fully agree with this statement. Technical support from the Acoustic Power Lab is certainly a winner compared to the compatitors. Respect, Raimonds!
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Old 07-08-2018   #72
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Sorry for the wait. A basic workflow is already included in the pdf file.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sM...NTeZpGExsYpMcx

Edit: Dropbox don't work for some reason...

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Old 07-08-2018   #73
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

I you email it to me, I'll throw it up on my server for you. My email address is myusername at gmail

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Old 07-08-2018   #74
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
I you email it to me, I'll throw it up on my server for you. My email address is myusername at gmail
Link should be fixed now, uploaded to google drive instead.

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Old 07-08-2018   #75
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

It works, thanks!

When the top comes off, the tops come off!
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