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Old 07-08-2018   #76
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Hello Friends,

The first revision of the Manual is now ready for your evaluation!
Thanks Hanatsu for help and efforts!

Your comments and suggestions are highly appreciated!

Because each user has different experience and has different actual questions about use and workflow of the set of APL1012, Workshop, TDA and C5.

I am thinking about creation of some dedicated question-answer place.
I would like to know your suggestions where and how to create it to have it clear and easy usable as possible.

BR,
Raimonds

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Old 07-08-2018   #77
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
Sorry for the wait. A basic workflow is already included in the pdf file.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sM...NTeZpGExsYpMcx

Edit: Dropbox don't work for some reason...
Thanks! This is very helpful.

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Old 07-09-2018   #78
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Hello Friends,

The first revision of the Manual is now ready for your evaluation!
Thanks Hanatsu for help and efforts!

Your comments and suggestions are highly appreciated!

Because each user has different experience and has different actual questions about use and workflow of the set of APL1012, Workshop, TDA and C5.

I am thinking about creation of some dedicated question-answer place.
I would like to know your suggestions where and how to create it to have it clear and easy usable as possible.

BR,
Raimonds
Yeah, probably a good idea. The "how-to" subtopic section might be the correct place. There are a lot of things the apl1012 can do together with TDA, workshop and c5 and I think us users can share a lot of good info once more start to use it.

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Old 07-09-2018   #79
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Hello Friends,

The first revision of the Manual is now ready for your evaluation!
Thanks Hanatsu for help and efforts!

Your comments and suggestions are highly appreciated!

Because each user has different experience and has different actual questions about use and workflow of the set of APL1012, Workshop, TDA and C5.

I am thinking about creation of some dedicated question-answer place.
I would like to know your suggestions where and how to create it to have it clear and easy usable as possible.

BR,
Raimonds

Raimonds, I second Hanatsu's opinion about the creation of a sub-section with Q&As soonest possible. There are several questions that users might have about APL philosophy and workflow as well as potential problems with software installation,compatibility under different OS which must be shared and discussed to everyone's benefit.
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Old 07-09-2018   #80
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Is there anywhere to download the actual C5 program? Was hoping to get an early start loading and getting familiar with, or does C5 come with the APL unit via install disc/usb flash?

Is there any advantage to using the included volume/sub-level knobs vs. using head unit volume, amplifier gain knobs etc?
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Old 07-09-2018   #81
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

After you purchase a unit, Raimonds will email you with links to the software, and some basic instructions.

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Old 07-09-2018   #82
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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After you purchase a unit, Raimonds will email you with links to the software, and some basic instructions.
Thanks, I emailed him, must've been busy as I didn't get a download link yet.


Also for anyone that may know, can you speak about the "group delay" option? New concept for me coming from a mosconi 6to8v8. I have ported subwoofers in an suv, is this the same group delay that can produce from the port, or am I misunderstanding the concept, or why the need to use this?
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Old 07-09-2018   #83
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Thanks, I emailed him, must've been busy as I didn't get a download link yet.


Also for anyone that may know, can you speak about the "group delay" option? New concept for me coming from a mosconi 6to8v8. I have ported subwoofers in an suv, is this the same group delay that can produce from the port, or am I misunderstanding the concept, or why the need to use this?
The other way would be to learn and use MATLAB and there is a gnu freeware version of that. (Which I forget the name of).
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Old 07-10-2018   #84
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
Thanks, I emailed him, must've been busy as I didn't get a download link yet.


Also for anyone that may know, can you speak about the "group delay" option? New concept for me coming from a mosconi 6to8v8. I have ported subwoofers in an suv, is this the same group delay that can produce from the port, or am I misunderstanding the concept, or why the need to use this?
Unless for got FIR filtering you cannot control the phase response in any accurate manner. IIR got allpass filtering but it's hardly usable when it comes to group delay corrections. I don't think the Mosconi DSP support FIR but idk.

Edit: Sorry, misread the question.

- Yes, you can compensate for a vented enclosure's group delay making a vented box with processing far superior to a sealed enclosure.

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Last edited by Hanatsu; 07-10-2018 at 03:47 AM..
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Old 07-10-2018   #85
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Where do buy this processor?
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Old 07-10-2018   #86
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Where do buy this processor?


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Old 07-10-2018   #87
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Unless for got FIR filtering you cannot control the phase response in any accurate manner. IIR got allpass filtering but it's hardly usable when it comes to group delay corrections. I don't think the Mosconi DSP support FIR but idk.

Edit: Sorry, misread the question.

- Yes, you can compensate for a vented enclosure's group delay making a vented box with processing far superior to a sealed enclosure.
thanks, I was just trying to understand how/why someone would use this option. Is it necessary?
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Old 07-10-2018   #88
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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thanks, I was just trying to understand how/why someone would use this option. Is it necessary?
It basically takes the input signal and does the reverse (or inverse) of the subwoofers group delay, and then the speaker output then looks closer to the input signal.
Some say that the ears are way less sensitive to the group delay at subwoofer frees, and others that it matters.
Generally an objective measurement (hard analysis) from comparing the speaker's output getting closer to the input signal (truth) is considered better, and one trys to avoid soft subjective "analysis".

In your particular case, as you already have the Mosconi, then maybe one of the miniDSPs that do FIR could just do the subwoofer?
Whether that is easy, or less expensive in time or $, could be a factor. Starting from scratch, with money not factored in, then it seems easier and more straight forward.
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Old 07-10-2018   #89
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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thanks, I was just trying to understand how/why someone would use this option. Is it necessary?
Here's some information. I believe GD at lower frequencies are audible. I had some paper on some listening test but I can't find it now.

Low frequency group delay equalization of vented boxes using digital...

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Old 07-10-2018   #90
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimonds View Post
Hello Friends,

The first revision of the Manual is now ready for your evaluation!
Thanks Hanatsu for help and efforts!

Your comments and suggestions are highly appreciated!

Because each user has different experience and has different actual questions about use and workflow of the set of APL1012, Workshop, TDA and C5.

I am thinking about creation of some dedicated question-answer place.
I would like to know your suggestions where and how to create it to have it clear and easy usable as possible.

BR,
Raimonds
Raimonds,

Did you ever get my email reply to you? Very curious about the process.

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Old 07-10-2018   #91
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
It basically takes the input signal and does the reverse (or inverse) of the subwoofers group delay, and then the speaker output then looks closer to the input signal.
Some say that the ears are way less sensitive to the group delay at subwoofer frees, and others that it matters.
Generally an objective measurement (hard analysis) from comparing the speaker's output getting closer to the input signal (truth) is considered better, and one trys to avoid soft subjective "analysis".

In your particular case, as you already have the Mosconi, then maybe one of the miniDSPs that do FIR could just do the subwoofer?
Whether that is easy, or less expensive in time or $, could be a factor. Starting from scratc7h, with money not factored in, then it seems easier and more straight forward.
Thanks for a detailed explanation!

I currently have the 6to8 and APL vst, should receive my 1012 soon!
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Hanatsu have you tried rear ambiance with the 5th channel. Can you pls explain how to do that.


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Old 07-15-2018   #93
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Hanatsu et. al.,

I see there is a USB input point for digital files...
I often am out of range of any wireless links for streaming services.
I have a CD player and radio, but if I wanted to use a SSD or some other deal to shove music in, then what would be recommended?

It would need to be something that does not rely on the head unit for searching and selecting the files.

Secondly... The head-unit does have a digital in, so I could go in there and then come out of the head unit's RCAs...
So if there is some player that works that way, then that would work.

The old iPad is a 64GB, and is being relegated to a map server for navigation, and does not seem able to hold much volume of music... But I am using it for podcasts and audio-books.

The home computer is OSX, so I would need a media server that can work with that or be loaded via Parallels running an older Windows.

I am more concerned with volume of music and SQ, rather than cost.
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Old 07-15-2018   #94
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Hanatsu have you tried rear ambiance with the 5th channel. Can you pls explain how to do that.


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Havenít tried it yet but I assume you go 4-way so thereís no crossover on the 5th way then set delays to a highish number (20-25ms or even more, experiment with it). You need to bandpass the response in the parametric EQ tab, try 300-4000Hz. Measure the speakers fullrange with workshop as usual to attain the filter before that. Perhaps invert one of the speakers so they are out of phase, could use TDA to perfect delays, then 180deg phase inv on one channel.

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Old 07-15-2018   #95
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Default APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
Hanatsu et. al.,



I see there is a USB input point for digital files...

I often am out of range of any wireless links for streaming services.

I have a CD player and radio, but if I wanted to use a SSD or some other deal to shove music in, then what would be recommended?



It would need to be something that does not rely on the head unit for searching and selecting the files.



Secondly... The head-unit does have a digital in, so I could go in there and then come out of the head unit's RCAs...

So if there is some player that works that way, then that would work.



The old iPad is a 64GB, and is being relegated to a map server for navigation, and does not seem able to hold much volume of music... But I am using it for podcasts and audio-books.



The home computer is OSX, so I would need a media server that can work with that or be loaded via Parallels running an older Windows.



I am more concerned with volume of music and SQ, rather than cost.

As of now, I have absolutely no idea what the USB audio-in is. Raimonds will have to explain how that works or if itís an optional feature.

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Old 07-15-2018   #96
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
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Havenít tried it yet but I assume you go 4-way so thereís no crossover on the 5th way then set delays to a highish number (20-25ms or even more, experiment with it). You need to bandpass the response in the parametric EQ tab, try 300-4000Hz. Measure the speakers fullrange with workshop as usual to attain the filter before that. Perhaps invert one of the speakers so they are out of phase, could use TDA to perfect delays, then 180deg phase inv on one channel.
Thanks. I'll try once I install the unit.

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Old 07-16-2018   #97
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

For rear fill, you need to mix the left and right inputs together into a mono signal, with one of the inputs polarity inverted.

So, Left + and Right - mixed to the left rear speaker.

Then, Right + and Left - going to the right rear speaker.

Doing this will phase cancel any of the center stage information from the audio signal, leaving only the far left and right stage sounds.

Then you will need a ton of delay. More than 30 ms is a good start.


I donít know if the APL 1012 is capable of doing a proper L-R, R-L mixed mono output?

Worst case, you can do this with a little miniDSP box for $200.


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Old 07-16-2018   #98
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Default APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Can always physically connect speakers in 70ís fashion Ēquadrophonic modeĒ. Iíve done it without mono mixing before, I swapped channels and inverted one. Canít think of a good way of doing it on this DSP.

Iím going with the Ēsignal differenceĒ thing. Psuedo rear ambience or whatever itís called

Edit; (As spl said above, tapatalk keeps bugging canít see all posts...)

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Last edited by Hanatsu; 07-16-2018 at 05:54 AM..
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Old 07-21-2018   #99
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

A Father's Day gift box came in on Friday...
1) Sivert Hoyem CD "Lioness"
2) fan belts
3) socket wrench
4) APL 1012
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Old 07-23-2018   #100
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
Hanatsu et. al.,

I see there is a USB input point for digital files...
I often am out of range of any wireless links for streaming services.
I have a CD player and radio, but if I wanted to use a SSD or some other deal to shove music in, then what would be recommended?

It would need to be something that does not rely on the head unit for searching and selecting the files.

Secondly... The head-unit does have a digital in, so I could go in there and then come out of the head unit's RCAs...
So if there is some player that works that way, then that would work.

The old iPad is a 64GB, and is being relegated to a map server for navigation, and does not seem able to hold much volume of music... But I am using it for podcasts and audio-books.

The home computer is OSX, so I would need a media server that can work with that or be loaded via Parallels running an older Windows.

I am more concerned with volume of music and SQ, rather than cost.
Holmz,
I use APLís USB audio input for sending digital audio up to 192Khz/24bit over USB from my Raspberry Pi3 .
The RPi3 is placed in the trunk powered by a 12-5V DC-DC regulator . I have attached an SSD and a 128GB flash disc to it . I have installed Volumio which is a free Linux based operating system tuned exclusively for music playback. The RPi3 becomes a headless digital audio player which is controlled over Wi-Fi from my android mobile phone or my android Dashboard Multimedia System.
I would suggest for better quality to send direct digital audio to APL instead of going into your head unitís digital in and then from its RCA output to APL, as like this you have one DA-AD conversion less . In case your APL does not have USB input there are SPDIF output piggyback boards in the market for Raspberry which you can use to send direct coax digital to APL.
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