APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review - Page 9 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 04-30-2019   #201
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainobvious View Post
This 10 channel can be thought of as 5 APL1's in a single chassis pcb design with some additional (great) dsp features.
Yeah, C5 adds some pretty neat DSP features. You can also get more info about what Workshop is doing. Fir example, this is a graph of an FIR file created with Workshop:


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Old 07-13-2019   #202
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

No video yet....uugh !

Iím installing the 1012 now , C5 doesnít seem to load up right I get license error
Canít connect to dsp
Stuck canít do anything as of now

Is there a way I can load the files using cmd or anything, Iíll just use rephase files if I have to, although would be nice to get it to work. Are fir on a sd card somewhere? Do I absolutely have to connect using C5?


Emailed Raimonds......waiting for response.
Sorry a little grouchy just worked a 20hr shift trying to get this to connect and nothing.
Well 10 of it on Apl.



Also what is this about

Ch 1,2 =1w
3,4=2w
5,6=3w
7,8=4w
9,10=5w

Is this mean channel 9,10 is 2.83v (1w) x5 output on analog rca thatís like 11.5v am I understand this right,

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 07-13-2019   #203
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Anyone want to make a little $$$$ to provide phone support?

This waiting on emails is no fun I think if someone could just talk to me and walk me through some of the setup I could breeze through this
I need to get this thing working stat

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 07-13-2019   #204
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Man you have too many DSP. minidsp now this


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Old 07-13-2019   #205
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Here is the user guide:

Quote:
How the "units" are used:
Example: in a typical 3-way car setup:
Unit 1 (1-way): Subwoofer L/R
Unit 2 (2-way): Midbass L/R
Unit 3 (3-way): Midrange L/R
Unit 4 (4-way): Tweeters L/R
Attached Files
File Type: pdf APL1012_manual_final.pdf (553.6 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by crackinhedz; 07-13-2019 at 07:47 AM..
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Old 07-13-2019   #206
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
No video yet....uugh !

Iím installing the 1012 now , C5 doesnít seem to load up right I get license error
Canít connect to dsp
Stuck canít do anything as of now

Is there a way I can load the files using cmd or anything, Iíll just use rephase files if I have to, although would be nice to get it to work. Are fir on a sd card somewhere? Do I absolutely have to connect using C5?


Emailed Raimonds......waiting for response.
Sorry a little grouchy just worked a 20hr shift trying to get this to connect and nothing.
Well 10 of it on Apl.



Also what is this about

Ch 1,2 =1w
3,4=2w
5,6=3w
7,8=4w
9,10=5w

Is this mean channel 9,10 is 2.83v (1w) x5 output on analog rca thatís like 11.5v am I understand this right,
Was the software installed to a USB drive? That's the best place to install it so it can be used on multiple computers. Was the license file sent to Raimonds after the install? If not, that needs to be done, and he will send a file back, and then you'll be good to go. His DRM is pretty strong on these, presumably because a previous business partner screwed him over.

As far as the channels go, you are looking at the crossover page, correct? The 1w, 2,w, etc,.. refers to have many ways your setup is. 1 being the subs and working your way to higher frequencies as you go up in numbers.

I've sent you a PM with my number for phone support. Do you have TeamViewer installed and an internet connection good enough to support it?

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Old 07-13-2019   #207
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
Was the software installed to a USB drive? That's the best place to install it so it can be used on multiple computers. Was the license file sent to Raimonds after the install? If not, that needs to be done, and he will send a file back, and then you'll be good to go. His DRM is pretty strong on these, presumably because a previous business partner screwed him over.

As far as the channels go, you are looking at the crossover page, correct? The 1w, 2,w, etc,.. refers to have many ways your setup is. 1 being the subs and working your way to higher frequencies as you go up in numbers.

I've sent you a PM with my number for phone support. Do you have TeamViewer installed and an internet connection good enough to support it?

Aaahhhh thank you!


I will go grab my pc and call in 10min

No no team viewing and my shop internet is so slow itís on a old t1 that is on a CAN to 5 diffrent states with a server in Seattle. Iím lucky to see 1mbps more like 500k

But yes thank you!


Itís not for me , I have a guy from the forums (here) that sent me his car 2000miles away to do his install, and boy oh boy we went to the 9s with this thing, itís going to be kick ass when itís done.

Needless to say he and I are on the clock and I want to do like the best job ever on tuning his car , and any info just getting fluent with apl is so much appreciated, heís getting it shipped back his home state soon and Iím running short on time.

Guys thank you for any help.


Ramionds is great , heís helping too , I hope he can understand the amount of hours I have into this build and the urgency of getting it done promptly.
And hope he knows I do appreciate his help.


Okay the ďwaysĒ I get it now. I like the terminology ďchannelsĒ a lot better , but it donít matter now I get it, i was like what is this broken English or something lol. Now it makes sense......


I was running some sims on rephase , this thing has decent power in fir .....very decent, more than minis HDs not quite a opendrc but for 10ch this thing is a powerhouse. I definitely worried about doing everything in fir, eq and phase ,
Hope I donít run out of coefficients at 96k tuning horns.

The IB should need very little eq it should play mostly flat on its own , no box to cause problems.

Iím very curious how this thing sounds!

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 07-13-2019   #208
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Any pics or a build log? Would love to see the final install!

Hope to install my APL 1012 within the next month, been sitting boxed up for almost a year need to get this badboy going. Dont suppose you have the time to make a video on the 1012 process? Or maybe some screen pics of the settings used/not used. Just to wrap my head around it. 🙂
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Old 07-13-2019   #209
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
Any pics or a build log? Would love to see the final install!

Hope to install my APL 1012 within the next month, been sitting boxed up for almost a year need to get this badboy going. Dont suppose you have the time to make a video on the 1012 process? Or maybe some screen pics of the settings used/not used. Just to wrap my head around it. 🙂


TONS of pics

Iím going wait for him to post a build log out of respect. I donít want to be that guy (yet) his car his build, if he wants to share , although itís pretty badass he should definitely at least show off them kicks! Got 60hrs just on kicks alone.

This thing is going to be dope as ****

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 07-13-2019   #210
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

What kind of latency numbers you guys been seeing ?

Iím using a vxi amp for rears and it has a limited amount of delay on the outputs.
And itís not running through the apl , so I wil have to align with delay ,

Are you guys under 30ms

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Old 07-13-2019   #211
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

I haven't had latency issues with the APL1, haven't tested latency on the 1012 yet.

I have an APL1 on the mains in my home theater and have zero latency issues. If you don't have an answer later today, I'll swap it with my 1012 and see what I get. I suspect you have nothing to worry about.

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Old 07-17-2019   #212
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Oabeieo, have any success with the tuning? If so how did you like the process and outcome?
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Old 07-17-2019   #213
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
Oabeieo, have any success with the tuning? If so how did you like the process and outcome?
Iím super excited to try it

Raimonds is mad at me for some reason

(I think heís still mad at me for poking fun at the apl1, which was rather duschy of me , the 1012 is bass ass little dsp , Iím super excited to hear it


Iíve waited three days now for him to send the license key, he wonít respond my emails now. Or heís taking his sweet time,

Kinda sucks because this single job is like half my months pay and if I canít deliver by end of month Iím fucked! Would be so bad if I didnít have 10 defendants that live off my paychecks.


So Iím waiting, I hope he sends it soon. Iím I really think Iím going to like it.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 07-18-2019   #214
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
...
Kinda sucks because this single job is like half my months pay and if I canít deliver by end of month Iím fucked! Would be so bad if I didnít have 10 defendants that live off my paychecks.
...
Were those 10 defendants convicted of guilt by association?
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Old 07-18-2019   #215
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

Defendants dependents

Potato potato

Lol


Heheheh



All I have to say about now is John is a fuckn stud!

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Old 07-18-2019   #216
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Defendants dependents

Potato potato

Lol


Heheheh



All I have to say about now is John is a fuckn stud!


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Old 07-19-2019   #217
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

I read this thread to the end. It sounds like an interesting product, but complicated software.

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Old 07-19-2019   #218
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

I work in the live event world with video gear, the software looks very similar to that. For example, download and run NovaLCT or dbstar. Itís pretty clear to me that Raimonds designed the software with the pro market in mind. Because of this, there is a steep learning curve. The bonus is that once you learn it, it can literally take just a couple minutes to measure, add filters, and send those filters to to the unit.

Also, if you want to change house curves, you donít have to remeasure, just apply that curve to the original measurement, then send it to the unit.

The software looks intimidating, but is pretty easy to work with once you learn it.

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Old 07-22-2019   #219
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by rton20s View Post
Oh yes the mullet and everything..lol hahaha

Isnít that rick flare or something. Didnít he become governor of Minnesota

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Old 07-22-2019   #220
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

We ended up going a different direction,
I got it to work, and it would crash. I got the 1st measurements done and it crashed
I was trying to load crossovers and gave up. It just would boot me off

John had informed me that the presets are eq only so that along with the crashing
And the hourly rate we decided go with a minidsp , it does what the guy wants
By having presets that can turn off channels, and has Dirac live so itís still a win win
And he has another device upstream also that has tons of fir ability so any residual group delay can be dealt with quite easily. I promised I wouldnít spill the beans, but think million tap filters if one wanted. (Jel)

I am super impressed with the TDA software, that works so good. Way better than I thought it would I am definitely thinking about buying a copy for me.
I like tda very much. So much easier than reading impulses.

I wish I coulda heard it tho. Dang it. And this guy will have more fun with the mini being all his amps work off one dsp instead of having the apl and that another dsp for his rears.
And not having to worry about fir delay between the dsps . That makes tuning no fun, and if the apl has impulse offsets longer than 20.21ms the rears just wouldnít have worked anyway.

On the 1012 tho the crossovers have a cutoff frequency for both the sides of the crossover that canít be altered? Meaning, if you cross the sub at 100 the mid is 100 and no way to enter it diffrent forced complimentary crossover.

Makes me wonder if he does forward-backward filtering on that, it would give better stopband attinuation , the inband amplitude would carry the error which could be eq if I remember reading about backward running fir. Possibly saves taps too....so where he wanted overlapping speakers wouldnít have had to do the peq option on crossovers. Not that thatís horrible, just one more thing that made this not the best option for this install , although would have still worked in a roundabout way. Just seemed like a lot of things to manage and work just to turn off a speaker pair or change a crossover slope or time align to another dsp.
But I digress,

Very curious about this dsp tho. Still has a lot of good things going on, for a traditional multi-way it could be one of the best. Definitely top 3 in my book

Another day Iíll get to work on one. Maybe Iíll buy one for a project.


I think the install drive was messed up I donít know. But it all worked out well and worked out better for this particular setup

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

Last edited by oabeieo; 07-22-2019 at 08:31 PM..
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Old 07-23-2019   #221
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
We ended up going a different direction,
I got it to work, and it would crash. I got the 1st measurements done and it crashed
I was trying to load crossovers and gave up. It just would boot me off

John had informed me that the presets are eq only so that along with the crashing
And the hourly rate we decided go with a minidsp , it does what the guy wants
By having presets that can turn off channels, and has Dirac live so itís still a win win
And he has another device upstream also that has tons of fir ability so any residual group delay can be dealt with quite easily. I promised I wouldnít spill the beans, but think million tap filters if one wanted. (Jel)

I am super impressed with the TDA software, that works so good. Way better than I thought it would I am definitely thinking about buying a copy for me.
I like tda very much. So much easier than reading impulses.

I wish I coulda heard it tho. Dang it. And this guy will have more fun with the mini being all his amps work off one dsp instead of having the apl and that another dsp for his rears.
And not having to worry about fir delay between the dsps . That makes tuning no fun, and if the apl has impulse offsets longer than 20.21ms the rears just wouldnít have worked anyway.

On the 1012 tho the crossovers have a cutoff frequency for both the sides of the crossover that canít be altered? Meaning, if you cross the sub at 100 the mid is 100 and no way to enter it diffrent forced complimentary crossover.

Makes me wonder if he does forward-backward filtering on that, it would give better stopband attinuation , the inband amplitude would carry the error which could be eq if I remember reading about backward running fir. Possibly saves taps too....so where he wanted overlapping speakers wouldnít have had to do the peq option on crossovers. Not that thatís horrible, just one more thing that made this not the best option for this install , although would have still worked in a roundabout way. Just seemed like a lot of things to manage and work just to turn off a speaker pair or change a crossover slope or time align to another dsp.
But I digress,

Very curious about this dsp tho. Still has a lot of good things going on, for a traditional multi-way it could be one of the best. Definitely top 3 in my book

Another day Iíll get to work on one. Maybe Iíll buy one for a project.


I think the install drive was messed up I donít know. But it all worked out well and worked out better for this particular setup



The defined/locked in crossover junctions is a good thing. The APL1012 corrects each drivers response to perfectly (or as close as can be achieved) align its acoustic response with that electrical filter so you have essentially beautifully aligned crossovers between drivers. There would be no reason to underlap or overlap if you have perfectly summed response. Just use the EQ for that

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Old 07-23-2019   #222
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

I ran some REW sweep through mine to look at the phase response around the crossovers, it's REALLY cool to see perfectly flat phase through the crossover. If you use a LR crossover instead, you get the predictable phase shift. But if you then turn on Group Delay correction, the flat is perfectly flat again. I'll post up some screenshots tonight.

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Old 07-23-2019   #223
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by LumbermanSVO View Post
I ran some REW sweep through mine to look at the phase response around the crossovers, it's REALLY cool to see perfectly flat phase through the crossover. If you use a LR crossover instead, you get the predictable phase shift. But if you then turn on Group Delay correction, the flat is perfectly flat again. I'll post up some screenshots tonight.

Yes I was surprised by that too. Also show the before and after FR correction of two drivers at the crossover point. It's quite good.

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Old 07-23-2019   #224
 
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by captainobvious View Post
The defined/locked in crossover junctions is a good thing. The APL1012 corrects each drivers response to perfectly (or as close as can be achieved) align its acoustic response with that electrical filter so you have essentially beautifully aligned crossovers between drivers. There would be no reason to underlap or overlap if you have perfectly summed response. Just use the EQ for that

Steve he had like duplicate channels , horns and tweeters for example ,
Definitely donít want to cross horns at 3k

And thatís not all. There were a lot of speakers installed.
So that was my original point, like 2 seperate full systems of speakers in the front of this car plus all kinds of rears.

Although in fir crossovers, you donít have to have the same frequency either, you can actually build filters that overlap and they sound amazing.
(Remember Steve, itís linear phase so it donít matter. The ďcrossoverĒ is a amplitude only thing, all you do is make sure the driver is flat before applying the crossover and it playes perfect in time with the inband. The whole ďcrossoverĒ mentality gets thrown out the window really. It opens a lot of doors

You should listen to a overlapping filter , bring the speakers down like 3 or 6 dB so your output isnít doubled. Than for an oactave and let them interact and blend at -6db(I think thatís where pos puts them) , than shut them down fast like 48db is nice.
You can find them in rephase, thereís a whole bunch of unique filter designs , there one oactave overlapping, 1/2 oactave , 2 oactave , Ramionds told me you can use rephase (I never got that far)

He said the .fir ad .wav are the same and apl will read both

So if itís 24bit you would export 24bitLpCM.wav in rephase
Throw it in a bank (oops I mean unit not bank) and enjoy.

But in that instance you get the blending than steep slopes.
So the outband interaction between speakers is almost non existent and the spekEkers are a oactave (or whatever) away so bye bye crossover interaction.
Itís like my most favorite filter for a tweeter or a horn to a mid.
I donít care much for them in the LF I like plain old LR4 or LR8

Check it out tho

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

Last edited by oabeieo; 07-23-2019 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 07-23-2019   #225
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Default Re: APL 1012 - 10ch FIR-based DSP - Review

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
All I have to say about now is John is a fuckn stud!
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Oh yes the mullet and everything..lol hahaha

Isnít that rick flare or something. Didnít he become governor of Minnesota


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