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Old 08-25-2019   #176
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Default Re: CLD Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by VP2015 View Post
What do you think vibrations propagating through the air are?

Thinsulate is not even close to being one of the most cost-effective acoustic insulations, especially not in applications where having a lot of thermal insulation is also desirable. I won't bother mentioning examples because (based on past experience) I doubt you're really interested in them anyway, because you already believe you "know" what works and what doesn't.

I use USB Clip-on Omnidirectional Condenser Microphones, which cost about $14-$15 each. It really only takes five or six, although more is better.
I guess your next complaint will be that this type of mic isn't "good enough" but in fact, the only real drawback is they are omnidirectional, which is easily changed using the method I mentioned in a previous post. The consistency is excellent because the exact same mic is used in the exact same location & orientation before & after treatment.

As I mentioned before, it always seems to turn into an argument between people like *you* who presume to know what will work best without actually having tested much, if anything, yourself, and those like me who have done that (along with more product research than you would believe). I guess that's the difference between amateur and professional. So, I'll let you get back to your previously established presumptions.
did you not get the part where he said from his understanding?no need to come off so harsh
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Old 08-25-2019   #177
 
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Default Re: CLD Testing

Dude, you’re welcome to volunteer and put forth a testing methodology and see if people will donate to help you test some products.

TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL did CLD testing several years ago that were valuable and did provide valuable consumer information. Based on that testing and the different products now, he offered to test some more products using an improved testing methodology. He has taken his valuable time and money to do some testing that will benefit the DIYMA community. Will it answer every question we want/need, no, but it will definitely help with which are the better CLD materials on the market.

I am grateful for the time and effort TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL has put into the CLD testing he has proposed.

If you have a different set of criteria to test, by all means start a new thread as the more information people have, the better. As you said, the study of acoustics is very complex and no one test will answer the myriad of questions we have or some we don’t even know need asking.
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Old 08-25-2019   #178
 
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Default Re: CLD Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by VP2015 View Post
What do you think vibrations propagating through the air are?

Thinsulate is not even close to being one of the most cost-effective acoustic insulations, especially not in applications where having a lot of thermal insulation is also desirable. I won't bother mentioning examples because (based on past experience) I doubt you're really interested in them anyway, because you already believe you "know" what works and what doesn't.

I use USB Clip-on Omnidirectional Condenser Microphones, which cost about $14-$15 each. It really only takes five or six, although more is better.
I guess your next complaint will be that this type of mic isn't "good enough" but in fact, the only real drawback is they are omnidirectional, which is easily changed using the method I mentioned in a previous post. The consistency is excellent because the exact same mic is used in the exact same location & orientation before & after treatment.

As I mentioned before, it always seems to turn into an argument between people like *you* who presume to know what will work best without actually having tested much, if anything, yourself, and those like me who have done that (along with more product research than you would believe). I guess that's the difference between amateur and professional. So, I'll let you get back to your previously established presumptions.

This felt personal and it is my first interaction with you.... Maybe you didn't mean it to be personal but you used the word "you" a lot which definitely portrays the original writer, or me in this instance.

I wasn't disagreeing that your method would *probably* yield better results, which is why I said it is good. But your method is still beyond what most people are willing to do and for how much of an improvement over the standard 25%+ coverage of CLD (less than 6db compared to 100% coverage according to the paper you linked)? Will your method of measuring first result in 0db difference compared to 100%? or 5db difference? I also say probably because to actually figure that out, we would need to have a very controlled test, using the same exact car and applying the CLD with the "standard" method and measuring results compared to applying with your methods results. We would have to use the same car, as you stated, all vehicles are different. This would be very hard in reality so we go to tests like TS2F's CLD test and Justin Zazzi's MLV test.

You have to admit that if you just use one microphone this is going to take some time to do all of the tests. If you were to buy more microphones, even at $15 a piece that is $100. Is that $100 and less time invested better spent on other sound deadening materials? A $100 buys ~15sqft more of Resonix Squares and minimal additional time when you are already applying it.

Also, while panel vibrations do contribute to vehicle noise, there have been quite a few tests with data (which I am sure you are aware based on your writings in this thread, so I won't bother linking them) that CLD alone does very little for sound reduction in vehicles when compared to other products.

Even the "white paper" that you linked states that CLD isn't that effective at normal car temperatures of up to 40 degrees celsius. Also, that white paper does not go into any testing methodologies to achieve that data, so definitely is not a paper that I would be able to quote if I was writing a paper on dampening. It also says estimated noise reduction so those two things make me lean to these are theoretical values and never actually tested.

I'm a scientist by nature and career. Therefore I am always open to new data and my mind being changed. But there is definitely an amount of diminishing returns that is happening with your microphone method. Which was my whole point.

If you are Jennifer Renninger of E-A-R (a 3m company), then the facilities/materials are already there for you to do this type of testing and I am sure you would do it just because that is what you like to do. So it is time well spent.

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Old 09-29-2019   #179
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Default Re: CLD Testing

Just gonna throw out a thank you for doing all these tests. It's extremely helpful to see these tests done in a close to real life situation. I get so sick of reading amazon reviews where everything is supposedly perfect. I'm about to do my first real audio build and you have definitely put me in the right direction for the first step of the build.
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Old 10-12-2019   #180
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Default Re: CLD Testing

So, how's the Amazon-sold Vibro Solution product?


Vibro-Black is 10 sq ft for $80, and 200mil, and its endorsed by the baddest (semi-famous) builder crew I know, Arclight.



Honestly I've been burned a lot on brands I don't know for deadening, but it looks GREAT.

Special thanks to all of the industry experts that share their knowledge here on the forum
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Old 10-13-2019   #181
 
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Default Re: CLD Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanson View Post
So, how's the Amazon-sold Vibro Solution product?


Vibro-Black is 10 sq ft for $80, and 200mil, and its endorsed by the baddest (semi-famous) builder crew I know, Arclight.



Honestly I've been burned a lot on brands I don't know for deadening, but it looks GREAT.
I have samples from their manufacturer from when I was still deciding on a manufacturer for ResoNix. Let's just say I only have samples.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #182
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Default Re: CLD Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
I have samples from their manufacturer from when I was still deciding on a manufacturer for ResoNix. Let's just say I only have samples.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I'm slightly lost but also intrigued. Nick, Silent Coat is the company (with a new American name and now American manufacturing supply.) So, in your testing, did the product fail in some way? What product samples did you try?

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #183
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Default Re: CLD Testing

Work continues on the test rig. I plan on heading to Chris' place tonight to help out with some of the assembly.


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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #184
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Default Re: CLD Testing

I have some no name, industrial CLD that i could send in. Anybody have the address handy so my lazy ass doesn't have to dig for it?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #185
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Default Re: CLD Testing

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Originally Posted by Pathological_quest View Post
I have some no name, industrial CLD that i could send in. Anybody have the address handy so my lazy ass doesn't have to dig for it?
I am not sure if Chris is accepting any samples yet, so I would wait to hear back from him.

I did take a couple of photos the other night of the unfinished door to the test rig we were working on. The mic is only there for scale. I think the door alone is substantially larger than the entire test rig Chris previously built. On the far side you can see the first face has had a second layer green glued and screwed.

We also determined that more substantial hinges are in order. (Even with a wheel to help support the strike side of the door.) So those will be purchased soon.

This thing is going to be SOLID.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #186
 
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Default Re: CLD Testing

question, has there been any testing done on rates of coverage? 25% vs 50% etc...?
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Default Re: CLD Testing

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question, has there been any testing done on rates of coverage? 25% vs 50% etc...?
Yes.

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