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Old 08-18-2019   #26
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by adriancp View Post
Yeah I'm well aware of the product page. What I'm saying is, most other DSP programs you can download and try in a demo mode. With MINIDSP, I don't believe that's available. I was wondering if anyone had taken any video of them tuning, configuring, or a tutorial of sorts.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Videos of tuning process for this would be sweet.. Asking a lot though.

I'm considering getting one too, but still chewing on just how easy/or difficult the tuning process actually is.

I haven't touched my tune in about 18mo, and its fairly good (for what I'm capable of). Getting reved up to tune again would be the problem for me , I admittedly suck at it.

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Old 08-18-2019   #27
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by bnae38 View Post
Videos of tuning process for this would be sweet.. Asking a lot though.



I'm considering getting one too, but still chewing on just how easy/or difficult the tuning process actually is.



I haven't touched my tune in about 18mo, and its fairly good (for what I'm capable of). Getting reved up to tune again would be the problem for me , I admittedly suck at it.
Bruh. Its worth. Every dime. And its superrrrrr easy to tune. We were all just figuring it out before.

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Old 08-18-2019   #28
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by adriancp View Post
Yeah I'm well aware of the product page. What I'm saying is, most other DSP programs you can download and try in a demo mode. With MINIDSP, I don't believe that's available. I was wondering if anyone had taken any video of them tuning, configuring, or a tutorial of sorts.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Also its a lil tricky because the software has to both be hooked up to the internet and to the device to work properly.
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Old 08-18-2019   #29
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
Bruh. Its worth. Every dime. And its superrrrrr easy to tune. We were all just figuring it out before.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
I'm gonna see how things develop over a couple weeks on this and the other thread (and the one on the mini forum that I haven't kept up with lately)..

Also I have to sell some of my hoard before buying one .

Thinking about tuning again kinda makes me wanna though. Lol

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Old 08-18-2019   #30
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by bnae38 View Post
I'm gonna see how things develop over a couple weeks on this and the other thread (and the one on the mini forum that I haven't kept up with lately)..

Also I have to sell some of my hoard before buying one .

Thinking about tuning again kinda makes me wanna though. Lol
Its really easy to use. If you would like. i can write like a quick run down of how to tune it.
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Old 08-18-2019   #31
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
Its really easy to use. If you would like. i can write like a quick run down of how to tune it.
Sure, if you don't mind. Thanks

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Old 08-18-2019   #32
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

I don't know if this one is helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVQhI7fPank&t=1188s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMQtE9NYfK8

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnae38 View Post
Videos of tuning process for this would be sweet.. Asking a lot though.

I'm considering getting one too, but still chewing on just how easy/or difficult the tuning process actually is.

I haven't touched my tune in about 18mo, and its fairly good (for what I'm capable of). Getting reved up to tune again would be the problem for me , I admittedly suck at it.
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Old 08-18-2019   #33
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

2.0 isn't released on this product yet.

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Old 08-19-2019   #34
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

I upgraded my 8x12 v2 to DL in June. I've tried 4 different tunes with it and have not been fully satisfied. Up until this weekend I had only used the time delay Dirac calculated & combined that with a manual tonality tune... I could never get a full tune utilizing Dirac to sound tonally pleasing. But, I will say that just using those Dirac calculated delays (which were much different then delays by distance alone) with a manual tonality made a big improvement in cohesion between drivers.

This Saturday, I worked on a complete ground up tune fully utilizing the Dirac live correction. Like Erin, I ran it through in multichannel first to obtain delays & levels which I plugged in to the output tabs and then ran it again through a 2ch Dirac (L/R). Unlike him, I spend a couple hours pre-tuning basically doing some broad stroke EQ & adjusting xover filters on the outputs and to get all drivers roughly following individual driver target curves I had generated with Jazzi's spreadsheet. The results were glorious!

Yesterday, I competed in the MECA NE 4x with that tune. It was the first competition for which I was not in my car for 1-2hours, before being judged, waving a mic around my head to make last minute improvements because it didn't sound "just right". The full Dirac tune was that good! I placed 1st in Mod-Street (3 competitors total) & 5th out of 19 in the money round. My drivers are in stock speaker locations - midbass in doors, mid in dash corners bouncing off windshield, tweeters in sails, trunk baffle sub.

Possibly the first car utilizing Dirac Live in the competition circuit?

It eliminated the midbass nulls I had that eq wouldn't touch. Playing by themselves: Left had a deep half octave 12db null centered at 160hz; Right had a deep half octave null centered at 180hz. These nulls combined to a 10db half octave null around 170hz. They are all gone!

Now that the groundwork is laid, it's literally takes 5min to change the target curve, re-optimize and load it into a new preset. I'm in love with this thing!

Last edited by Truthunter; 08-19-2019 at 08:19 AM..
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Old 08-19-2019   #35
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Congratulations!! That's awesome. I think some of us are starting to now really tap into the potential of the DL unit's and figuring out the best way to utilize them.

Quick question for you, since if I remember correctly you have a single subwoofer. How are you assigning the sub in the Mixer / Routing tabs in order to get the L/R tune?

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Old 08-19-2019   #36
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by naiku View Post
Congratulations!! That's awesome. I think some of us are starting to now really tap into the potential of the DL unit's and figuring out the best way to utilize them.

Quick question for you, since if I remember correctly you have a single subwoofer. How are you assigning the sub in the Mixer / Routing tabs in order to get the L/R tune?
Thanks Ian!

Yes, I think it's really coming together now. I'm considering writing up a little tutorial.

For the multichannel (7ch) Dirac config: Dirac7 was routed to Output 8 (Sub) in the mixer tab.

Then for the 2 channel Dirac config: Inputs 1/2 (L/R) were routed to Dirac1 & Dirac2 which were then both routed together at 0db to Output 8 (Sub) in the mixer tab.

My amps input switch is set to only use L input for the bridged channels which is coming from Output 8 on the DSP.

I did not transfer the gain (-13.5db) for the sub channel to the output tab from the results of the 7ch config optimization. I tried it with that gain but sub level was too low... so I tried again keeping it at 0db and sub level was perfect.

Last edited by Truthunter; 08-19-2019 at 05:41 PM.. Reason: grammer
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Old 08-19-2019   #37
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Yes, I think it's really coming together now. I'm considering writing up a little tutorial.
I know a lot of people would LOVE this.

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Old 08-19-2019   #38
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
... First up for sale is the Helix DSP Pro MKII.
Co-incidence? LOL
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Old 08-19-2019   #39
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Co-incidence? LOL
Not sure. I have been looking at the helix factory integration amp as well. Iím just trying to stock pile funds right now and sort it out after.

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Old 08-20-2019   #40
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Yes learning what pre and post tuning is important with Dirac live

And everyoneís cars will be a little different , one car may need a small level ajust on maybe a left mid turn down by a dB or two, and post tuning is mostly all just fine tuning levels never any eq work, at least for me.


Dirac will ďundoĒ some of the ďpretuneĒ you have and itís all wasted coefficients and added filter ringing at that point. So knowing what needs pretune is part of the curve in learning. And So knowing what to expect after every trial it gets better. The nice thing is itís only a few tryís and you get it.

For anyone thatís on the fence. It takes a few goís at it. Once you get the hang of it and know what itís doing that only a couple times will teach hands-on your cars will be amazing. And Dirac will grow on you and quickly become something you wonít want to live without. Thereís a psychological process definitely as some of your old tunings may be what your used to and like more. But that is temporary and going back to your old tuning will reveal that this really is better than what you could do on your own.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Last edited by oabeieo; 08-20-2019 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 08-22-2019   #41
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by ErinH View Post

As previously mentioned, I tried to use DL to measure and optimize each individual driver to a specific target curve a number of ways. The truth is, it just didnít work well for me. My best results were met by using DL in stereo mode with the subwoofer getting half of the summed signal as it was summed by combining Left+Right in the routing tab. DL suggests this and my results back this as being the best method. But, again, it might be useful for you to first run DL on each individual driver to let DL tell you the time delay and level values to set for the corresponding output channels in the MiniDSP. Then re-run DL in 2-channel mode after youíve made those adjustments.
Erin... this somewhat confusing for me in what you are doing here. For clarification ... miniDSP/DL recommends measuring the subwoofer separate from the other speakers. The 2-way or 3-way system with the frequency response outside of the subwoofer range is what they recommend measuring as one speaker (supposedly if they are not too far apart). This is similar to the home... we measure all the full range speakers and the subwoofer separately.

Can you share your XML file.... or post a screenshot of your routing and mixer tabs?

I wouldn't mind trying what you are suggesting to see how it sounds, but it seems like it would confuse the bass management.

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Old 08-22-2019   #42
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Erin... this somewhat confusing for me in what you are doing here. For clarification ... miniDSP/DL recommends measuring the subwoofer separate from the other speakers. The 2-way or 3-way system with the frequency response outside of the subwoofer range is what they recommend measuring as one speaker (supposedly if they are not too far apart). This is similar to the home... we measure all the full range speakers and the subwoofer separately.



Can you share your XML file.... or post a screenshot of your routing and mixer tabs?



I wouldn't mind trying what you are suggesting to see how it sounds, but it seems like it would confuse the bass management.
So the unit has 12 outputs. 8 of which can be used as dirac. We've found through testing that its actually best to only use 3 or those outputs in the whole system, not considering rearfill and the like.

So basically. The first time you run dirac. Use as many channels as you have speakers.

You have a simple 6.5 and tweeter and a sub woofer? Thats 5 channels for 5 speakers. So do the 9 measurements and then send it into the box. What you're after here isn't actually a tune but the delay and levels that dirac does. You can see this via the Dirac tab in the plug in.

Now, write those down. And make a 2nd tune on the 2nd tab of the plug in. Same crossovers, same pretune eq if u choose too, but this time input the levels and delay that dirac used for tune 1 on the first tab.

Then run Dirac once more but instead, use inly 3 channels of the 12 total.

One for left. One for right. And one for subwoofer.

Its works a lot better.

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Old 08-22-2019   #43
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
So the unit has 12 outputs. 8 of which can be used as dirac. We've found through testing that its actually best to only use 3 or those outputs in the whole system, not considering rearfill and the like.

So basically. The first time you run dirac. Use as many channels as you have speakers.

You have a simple 6.5 and tweeter and a sub woofer? Thats 5 channels for 5 speakers. So do the 9 measurements and then send it into the box. What you're after here isn't actually a tune but the delay and levels that dirac does. You can see this via the Dirac tab in the plug in.

Now, write those down. And make a 2nd tune on the 2nd tab of the plug in. Same crossovers, same pretune eq if u choose too, but this time input the levels and delay that dirac used for tune 1 on the first tab.

Then run Dirac once more but instead, use inly 3 channels of the 12 total.

One for left. One for right. And one for subwoofer.

Its works a lot better.

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Yep... that's exactly what I'm doing... but it sounds like Erin is running his subs mixed in with his fronts from how he described it.

Here are my Routing and Mixer tabs... 7 channels initially, then 5 channels including the rear channels on the final run...




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Old 08-22-2019   #44
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

This is what mine looks the 2nd time around.

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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

This is the first time.

5 speakers total.


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Old 08-22-2019   #46
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Looks like about the only difference in yours and mine is I use the Bass Mgt tab on the routing per the recommendation of miniDSP. But I do link my two sub channels at output in the Mixer.

You do eliminate two of your input channels on the Routing tab, but that won't make a difference as the fronts are all getting the left and right input either way. The Mixer tab will determine how they are output for Dirac measurements.

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Old 08-23-2019   #47
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnie View Post
Erin... this somewhat confusing for me in what you are doing here. For clarification ... miniDSP/DL recommends measuring the subwoofer separate from the other speakers. The 2-way or 3-way system with the frequency response outside of the subwoofer range is what they recommend measuring as one speaker (supposedly if they are not too far apart). This is similar to the home... we measure all the full range speakers and the subwoofer separately.

Can you share your XML file.... or post a screenshot of your routing and mixer tabs?

I wouldn't mind trying what you are suggesting to see how it sounds, but it seems like it would confuse the bass management.
So, I tried a tune like this with simply L/R with the subwoofer mixed in, on this tune I am not using bass management. The results are good, on previous tunes I always found the sub-bass lacking, but this way it is not lacking at all and (to my ears at least) is blending really nicely with the mid-bass and is now right up on the dash. If you have time and a spare preset it's well worth a try of just L/R.

My other favorite tune I am running has the subwoofer separate, but on this particular tune the subwoofer level is a touch too low for my preference. With almost all of my previous tunes I found the subwoofer level lower than I would like. I need to do some more back to back comparisons between the two to determine which I really prefer though.

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Old 08-23-2019   #48
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet or not, but I was brainstorming about process flow and came up with an idea which I will be trying out when I get my next build finished (where my 8x12DL is going).


My plan is to attempt the following:


1. Set delays in the plugin using SysTune impulse response, like I always do.

2. Measure each driver individually using the 5 mic array for spacial averaging.

3. Export the measurements from SysTune and import them to REW.

4. Use REW to build EQ biquads and export those to miniDSP. This can be done to a flat target curve, or to whatever curve we want.

5. Finish plugin base tune by adding crossover points.

6. Run Dirac for 3 channels, left right and sub.

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Old 08-23-2019   #49
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet or not, but I was brainstorming about process flow and came up with an idea which I will be trying out when I get my next build finished (where my 8x12DL is going).





My plan is to attempt the following:





1. Set delays in the plugin using SysTune impulse response, like I always do.



2. Measure each driver individually using the 5 mic array for spacial averaging.



3. Export the measurements from SysTune and import them to REW.



4. Use REW to build EQ biquads and export those to miniDSP. This can be done to a flat target curve, or to whatever curve we want.



5. Finish plugin base tune by adding crossover points.



6. Run Dirac for 3 channels, left right and sub.
Did that but with Rew. Dirac doesn't average the measurements. So the pre eq you do is pointless

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Old 08-23-2019   #50
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

I had better luck combining the sub in to channels left and right and running DL in 2 channel mode; not 3 channel. But, YMMV.

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