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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #77
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by banshee28 View Post
So a few questions... I am somewhat familiar with the REW technique to measure the FR and work to get the auto-eq correction files. Normally you would setup your target response curve at or around the average and mostly cut the peaks vs booting (for the most part).

So here with Dirac it looks like the target is much above the "average" in the low FR say 0-100Hz. If this is the case, does Dirac simply boost these fr's, or i hope it simply first boosts the gain on the channels then mostly cuts as needed as one would do using REW?

Or do we need to be more careful and ensure the gain on each channel (i.e. SUB here) is at a good level first before running Dirac on everything?


Good question.


So if you look at your ďavg spectrumĒ curve you will see itís ďnormalizedĒ

So no matter what level you take your measurements it will show the same ďcurveĒ . I want to say that it averages the spl and the sound power and comes up with what it considers boosted and cut from the ď0db lineĒ even tho that line is artificial.

So the average spectrum response is basically itís representation on how it will build correction and what will be boost and cuts.

So Dirac can boost no more than 10db.

So if your entire target has more than 10db differences itís going to start to push things down.

Meaning. If your target is +10db at 20hz and -15db at 20khz itís going to lower the entire volume of everything at least 5db to make your target. So you will loose at least 5db of output gain in essence depending on where your avg spectrum is centered on the 0db like , could loose as much as 15db gain!

Some targets may not have a 10db difference but against the response ďcould be moreĒ than 10db and thus lowered output.

So if you start to notice itís cutting a lot of gain try getting your gains set so that itís not having to make so much change.
But thereís a caveat. If you do too much with gains the measurements will say ďtoo low levelĒ so your kinda stuck really in the +/-10db range. (But seriously who wants 20db swings in there targets , use a-bass knob if you want that much low end and measure with bass knob very very low)

My best advice is keep your target under 10db difference for maximum gain output of Dirac and use a bass knob after Dirac to bring sub up to the level you wanted it. And that means maybe a little pre planning if your a stickler about crossover points being exacting. (Iím not if my crossover moves up 5hz I donít care) but itís important to some ppl.


Edit add: And if the correction is more than 10db youíll notice where your big dips are your target response (in yellow) will have more jagged ripple in response , because your past the 10db eq limit

Hope that helps

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #78
 
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

And remember:


The target is a EQ. A different type of eq but still an eq to a point.

And what Iím trying to say is if you have too much bass boosted in the target the highs will surly saturate a little just like it would with any eq at higher volumes


For example , hook up a system with a stereo 1/3oactave graphic eq.
Now boost everything under 125hz to its max and cut the highs
And listen . At high levels the highs will saturate a little and modulate a little of the low end.

This eq is no different. It will do the same thing if your boosting too much in the lows .

A little bit is OK just like it would be with any Eq. Just trying to avoid Having massive amounts of bass energy in your tweeters. Yeah your crossover will ďfilter itĒ but the energy is still there.

So where are you boosting? Is it the 0db line or at the crest of the avg spectrum.

To better answer this and how the target behaves is look at the avg spectrum
The parts that are above the 0db line May or May not boost if your target is between them. If the spectrum was inverted how would it ride your target is the question that answers that.

Most of your response will just be a inverse filter. (An exact opposite of your response) some will be left alone and some will be slightly moved depending if itís correctable.

Minimum phase is invertable. Not everything will be minimum phase. Some of it can be corrected so it is invertable some can not.


From a strictly SQ standpoint, I just keep my target below the ď0db lineĒ and try to stay close to the bottom of my response. That will ensure the inversion will be all cuts. Like setting rew not to boost anything. Or a max boost of maybe 2db . Or more if thereís a bigger difference between the boost and how far down the response is below 0db line.

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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Every time I start my car, output is drastically cut. I have to open Dirac and adjust the output levels every time the vehicle is cycled off then back on. Iíve tried everything I can think of. Anyone else having this issue?


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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by aholland1198 View Post
Every time I start my car, output is drastically cut. I have to open Dirac and adjust the output levels every time the vehicle is cycled off then back on. Iíve tried everything I can think of. Anyone else having this issue?


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What do you mean ajust levels when start car?

Like the output sliders move on there own?



Check make sure jumpers internal are in place and make sure your remote power setting / switch are correct to power input .


Idk

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
What do you mean ajust levels when start car?



Like the output sliders move on there own?







Check make sure jumpers internal are in place and make sure your remote power setting / switch are correct to power input .





Idk


Pretty much. On the export page, Iíll set the output to -5, save, turn the vehicle off. When I start the vehicle again, there will be very little output, so I open Dirac and go to the export page and the output slider will be at -25.


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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by aholland1198 View Post
Pretty much. On the export page, Iíll set the output to -5, save, turn the vehicle off. When I start the vehicle again, there will be very little output, so I open Dirac and go to the export page and the output slider will be at -25.


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The output ďmasterĒ in Dirac is also the master volume in plug in
(At least on the ddrc24 it is I can remember about the Cdsp)

So when you connect to dsp
In the upper right hand corner of the main dsp screen
(Where bass management and levels and mixer)
Anyway the upper right hand screen shows where your volume is set to

You can change it with 1. The master at output of Dirac screen
2. Through the volume control (if programmed at a master volume)
3. IR remote
4. Selecting the # and manually entering the desired volume in 10key

So it sounds like itís booting up with the volume down
Which isnít a big issue if you have a volume but nevertheless it should keep where it was at. You should turn up the master volume in plug in to max and than hit ďsave configuration ď to either sd or computer.

Your saving the configuration associated with the Dirac bank you have loaded Iím sure also? If you main tune is on configuration one, when you log into Dirac to ďajust the master. Your booted into that configuration.

If you ďsaveĒ the Dirac project, that may not save the volume setting. That saves the measurements and the target together. So when you load that project whatever target you have saved with that project comes back so you can pick up where you left off. You can also save targets independently from measurements as a target file.

The master output I would put to ďmaxĒ and than open the plug in and save configuration. The configuration is what saves ďvolumesĒ and that kind of things.

If your using it at -5 your throwing away output gain. So keep that in mind.
The Cdsp has good amount of output gain but 5db is a lot lot of wasted gain.

If your using 5vrms input or more I would consider using the high level in setting and attenuate the signal that way instead of in the plug in. If your input is between 4-5vrms than using the -5setting can help idiot proof your system if you have ppl that drive the car that may abuse your system, but if it were my car I wouldnít even think about using -5db at the output. (If you have upstream volume) of your using the volume control in dsp than it should be a non issue.


Hope that helps some.


Edit

This is what I would do

Refresh dsp and start a new configuration. It sounds like the configuration is corrupt (can happen from time to time) donít load the saved configuration into that slot as itís probably corrupt. Just copy all your settings into new configuration, than go to Dirac side and take new measurements with all volumes to max.


Than save the configuration in plugin. It should not change the volume from where it was last set.

If you have some of the output sliders on channels turned down in your Dirac outputs when taking measurements that is associated with input gain. That should save also to each configuration not globally unless you load those measurements into each bank.

The ďmasterĒ is the volume on dsp (one in the same)



When starting measurements and setting levels in Dirac it can behave kinda wierd when you get to the plug in side , when jumping from configuration to configuration. In the Dirac levels for each channel max those out! And use the master only as setting level for the measurements, after measurements are done max it out!

If you need to turn down channels before doing measurements do it in the output on the plugin before going to Dirac, make it so you can max out all the Dirac side levels etc. that will 1.give you more gain, 2. Keep the volumes working right between configurations and also between the two platforms.

Make any level changes beforehand of running Dirac in each output bank on each configuration before taking measurements.

Whatever configuration your currently on when you open Dirac will be the configuration that it is using to set those levels , just make them all the same on all 4 configurations. Meaning if you have output levels changed and eq work done in one configuration than run Dirac and load that filter into other banks the other banks have to have the same dsp settings as the configuration that you were on when you took the measurements, otherwise new measurements have to be taken for each configuration


Iíve tried using the Dirac side volumes and have had some goofy behavior between configurations.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Iíve reset the dsp, tried your suggestions, plus everything I can think of and the problem persists.

I have contacted the Dev team and sent the files to them to look over. Hopefully they have an answer because I canít take another week of this.


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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by aholland1198 View Post
Iíve reset the dsp, tried your suggestions, plus everything I can think of and the problem persists.

I have contacted the Dev team and sent the files to them to look over. Hopefully they have an answer because I canít take another week of this.


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Okay yeah if that didnít work something wrong.

Donít be discouraged theyíll get it working right

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
I have two cdspDL units
And I prefer the ddrc in front of my dsps

Itís the same thing but itís works beautifully.

So no worries you wonít miss anything
Could you elaborate on the setup with a ddrc upstream of a DSP?

I'm weighing up tacking on a ddrc24 to my antique c-dsp 6x8. $400 is a lot less than $900, but disappointment is priceless.


Nice review tho, bikinpunk. I just wish I didn't read it, or ever look into what Dirac was

Groggy eyed and fried, and I headed for the station
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Could you elaborate on the setup with a ddrc upstream of a DSP?

I'm weighing up tacking on a ddrc24 to my antique c-dsp 6x8. $400 is a lot less than $900, but disappointment is priceless.


Nice review tho, bikinpunk. I just wish I didn't read it, or ever look into what Dirac was

Yeah I should make a whole new thread about it.


Donít want to sidetrack this. This is such a good review donít want to cause too much confusion.

Iíll post it in the technical forums

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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

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Originally Posted by naiku View Post
So, I tried a tune like this with simply L/R with the subwoofer mixed in, on this tune I am not using bass management. The results are good, on previous tunes I always found the sub-bass lacking, but this way it is not lacking at all and (to my ears at least) is blending really nicely with the mid-bass and is now right up on the dash. If you have time and a spare preset it's well worth a try of just L/R.

My other favorite tune I am running has the subwoofer separate, but on this particular tune the subwoofer level is a touch too low for my preference. With almost all of my previous tunes I found the subwoofer level lower than I would like. I need to do some more back to back comparisons between the two to determine which I really prefer though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
I had better luck combining the sub in to channels left and right and running DL in 2 channel mode; not 3 channel. But, YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I seem to remember reading about more people with output or sub output issues when using more than 2 DIRAC channels. It seems like the software works better with a 2-channel tune (L/R) with the sub output getting 50%L and 50%R.
So I've been running my preset 2 with the subs combined into the front channels... only 2 front channels L+R with the rear fill L+R. I have to admit it sounds better. It's not drastic, but it's subjectively noticeable to me. I notice more output particularly in the midbass area. It no doubt does a better job of blending the sub with the midbass.

I still had to adjust the delay on my subs (using the 80Hz tone and inverting the phase) to get them sounding more up front, yet on some songs, I can still sense they are in the rear. I'm not sure if it's perception simply because I know they are back there, or what might be going on. I don't think it's localization, but it seems like it's on songs with lower bass output, which certainly shouldn't be localized. It would make more sense if it were in that 80Hz range, but kick drum in the 50-60Hz range and everything above there is up front... it's the lower notes that seem to be a bit localized. I may try a 60Hz xover, but I don't think these HAT shallow mount 6x9's can handle that much output at the 60Hz mark. This is where I almost wish I could get 8's in my front door.

Still loving the sound with the C-DSP and Dirac Live.

I can't wait to get version 2. I finally got around to using version 2 on my home audio system this past weekend and it is unbelievable. When I thought it couldn't get any better... wow! If it improves my truck like it improved my home audio... whoa Nelly!

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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Put my C back in
Having massive toslink issues
( waiting for all new parts cables etc etc )

And the Cdsp is badass .....

Got a really good tune going.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Thump!

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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

Hi! Can anyone tell me how to do predirac individual speaker eq with rew in 2 way active Front + Sub. Do you measure drivers in car at listening position or near speaker?


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Default Re: MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 with Dirac Live

I measured mine nearfield at the center of the speaker cone within a couple of inches to make sure the enclosure was not affecting the driver with any serious peaks. Nothing was abnormally bad. Then I measured from my drivers seat head area and fixed a few peaks with parametric eq. Then I ran DL.

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