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Old 07-28-2010   #76
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by alachua View Post
With the limited availability of the IB15, they are rare to last in the second hand market unless you are trying to get full retail for them.
Also good to know...

Thanks for the info!! All of you!

It is very easy to conflate cause and effect that are unrelated in audio design. In fact, the entire audiophile industry is based upon this ease of fallacy.

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Old 07-28-2010   #77
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by cubdenno View Post
Would 2 15's equal the in car output of a single 15 in a ported enclosure?
I would say only below your tunning frequency (30hz you say?) or above 70hz or so where thermal becomes more important.

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Plus, with the teenager son rapidly approaching a louder vehicle than mine, I have to stay at least competitive.I will have to seriously ponder this.
Just test at a different frequency. If he runs ported test below his tunning frequecy. If he runs sealed test at 100hz. You see where this is going. With any competition if you want to have the best chance winning you want to have the winning design. It's not likely that's the lowest weight, or the best sounding. IB is a best all around solution for the car environment unless you have a minvan or hatchback. However, unless you are going for thermal tests at high frequencies it's not going to win you any trophies.

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Old 07-29-2010   #78
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

Thanks Big Time!! This forum is Freakin Awesome!!
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Old 08-04-2010   #79
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

Thanks for the great review. It's encouraging to see that IB setups are still very much alive and well.
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Old 09-17-2010   #80
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

Anyone here did a direct comparison between the AE & Fi 15" IB sub in their vehicle? I'm torn between the two from all that I've read, but it seems that the Fi has a quicker production line than AE. I need to get one soon for my setup. Here's my IB thread on BimmerForums:
e39 free-air / infinite baffle vs enclosure box sub setup - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum
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Old 09-17-2010   #81
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by zzvelik View Post
Anyone here did a direct comparison between the AE & Fi 15" IB sub in their vehicle? I'm torn between the two from all that I've read, but it seems that the Fi has a quicker production line than AE. I need to get one soon for my setup. Here's my IB thread on BimmerForums:
e39 free-air / infinite baffle vs enclosure box sub setup - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum
FI are popular, but why? I have no idea what's special about them.

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Old 09-17-2010   #82
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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FI are popular, but why? I have no idea what's special about them.
Greater displacement for one. Availability for two. Pretty big differences, IMO.
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Old 09-18-2010   #83
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by bassfromspace View Post
Greater displacement for one. Availability for two. Pretty big differences, IMO.
Well more displacement is good but the sensitivity is far lower, the increase in displacement will all go towards creating more output.

You guys are way too hardcore. Car audio is not a necessity, some people go through their entire lives without ever using a subwoofer. There are lots of folks who would wait for a bit to get a high quality product. It's like saying restaurant food is worse than fast food because it's not made before you order. I wouldn't say availability is high on the feature list for most, especially since lots of products are available whenever. I'm not sure it's a strenght of FI, more like a weakness of AE but that's not what we're talking about. Or is it?

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Old 09-18-2010   #84
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by cvjoint View Post
Well more displacement is good but the sensitivity is far lower, the increase in displacement will all go towards creating more output.

You guys are way too hardcore. Car audio is not a necessity, some people go through their entire lives without ever using a subwoofer. There are lots of folks who would wait for a bit to get a high quality product. It's like saying restaurant food is worse than fast food because it's not made before you order. I wouldn't say availability is high on the feature list for most, especially since lots of products are available whenever. I'm not sure it's a strenght of FI, more like a weakness of AE but that's not what we're talking about. Or is it?
Subjective argument.

Millions of businesses rise and fall based on their of mastery of timely delivery. It's called customer service. Maybe you don't care about customer service.

As far as efficiency, I don't see where the AE is heads and shoulders above the FI in efficiency. Power is cheap, however, and we're talking IB setups.

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Old 09-18-2010   #85
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

I haven't heard an AE just yet but here is my experience so far.

I build an IB mount for the lexus IS300 guys. It gives them the ability to mount any 12" woofer IB through the stock ski pass. At this point I've told them that the main two subs I'd suggest are the Fi IB3 12" and the AE IB12.

Both are great performing subs no doubt. I think the Fi will out hammer the AE and the AE will edge it out on SQ. The AE's efficiency edge is significant (in the case of the 12's) but I think the Fi is what most people will have a hard time blowing up. And for first time IB users that is something to consider.

I've talked to Scott at Fi numerous times and they have proven to get product into the hands of my customers. John is notorious for not being able to get on the phone (or email) and his build time is quite a bit longer. I'd be lying if I said my customers didn't notice these things. John is a great guy and has a fantastic product but he needs a solution to increase customer service.


(Pic of my IB mount)

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Old 09-18-2010   #86
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

^I'll agree with that. For entry level car enthusiasts that don't care about linearity this subwoofer may be able to push more air. I think I talked about the same thing in this thread when comparing to the IdMax. If I were to guess, the AE's suspension maxes out shortly after xmax.

AE is a small business, they need to make this trade off to continue building great product at low prices. If they get successful enough I'm going to guess the price will go up and availability will be much better. Since I'm on a budget I'm more than happy to prepay and wait a bit for a sub that has ALL the design features I'm looking for: good amount of xmax, low resonance suspension, shorting rings, low motor noise, low depth, light weight, pro audio ruggedness and low cost. I mean once I have the product, availability is not an issue, I will have EVERYTHING that counts to me.

There are lots of high throw available subs. Imo I would always go for an XBL2 driver with shorting rings for such an application. The BL is very flat on these and make an effort to reduce LE. Out of all the monstrous subs I've used the XBL seems to be the only bottomless one. But then there are so many things to account for: xmax in itself doesn't mean much if you don't have decent sensitivity,extremely low motor noise, beefy coil, more power, a free flowing basket, more alternator amps to create more power, a car and a baffle that handles heavy magnet structures etc. Out of all the ways one can get more output, high xmax, while cool to look at, it's probably the hardest to implement.

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Old 09-18-2010   #87
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by ItalynStylion View Post
I haven't heard an AE just yet but here is my experience so far.

I build an IB mount for the lexus IS300 guys. It gives them the ability to mount any 12" woofer IB through the stock ski pass. At this point I've told them that the main two subs I'd suggest are the Fi IB3 12" and the AE IB12.

Both are great performing subs no doubt. I think the Fi will out hammer the AE and the AE will edge it out on SQ. The AE's efficiency edge is significant (in the case of the 12's) but I think the Fi is what most people will have a hard time blowing up. And for first time IB users that is something to consider.

I've talked to Scott at Fi numerous times and they have proven to get product into the hands of my customers. John is notorious for not being able to get on the phone (or email) and his build time is quite a bit longer. I'd be lying if I said my customers didn't notice these things. John is a great guy and has a fantastic product but he needs a solution to increase customer service.


(Pic of my IB mount)

I'll be starting my IB build soon. Be prepared.
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Old 09-19-2010   #88
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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(Pic of my IB mount)

Nice mount. Do you have any other pics from your install?
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Old 09-20-2010   #89
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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I'll be starting my IB build soon. Be prepared.
Suuuweeeet!

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Originally Posted by zzvelik View Post
Nice mount. Do you have any other pics from your install?
That's actually a friend's car that we designed the system around. I sell it coated in LineX like that one and also carpeted like this next picture. And no I didn't do the carpeted one's install (customer did it himself) so mounting the sub with the terminals like that was not my doing lol

To be honest, I think both subs are great and you can't go wrong with either. The AE, as stated, will likely sound better, cost less, but take longer to receive. The Fi sounds great, costs a little more, and will hit your door in about a week.

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Old 09-23-2010   #90
 
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

I'm a huge AE fan, so take this with a grain of salt. your not losing much XMAX with the AV, like a decibel or 2 of output, it's really price vs time. If you have the time to wait for the build the AE IB's are just killer for the price. Plus the AE's do have a fancier motor with the sleeved pole and all.
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Old 09-23-2010   #91
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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The AE, as stated, will likely sound better, cost less, but take longer to receive.
The best thing to do while waiting for your AE to get built is to start building the wall and deadning! I really need to get going on my install. Going with a single 15...
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Old 09-23-2010   #92
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by T3mpest View Post
I'm a huge AE fan, so take this with a grain of salt. your not losing much XMAX with the AV, like a decibel or 2 of output, it's really price vs time. If you have the time to wait for the build the AE IB's are just killer for the price. Plus the AE's do have a fancier motor with the sleeved pole and all.
Are you sure about the first part? Xmax on the Fi is almost double the AE. We're talking sealed boxes.

As far as shorting rings are concerned, I'm not convinced they provide audible benefits due to subwoofers being high distortion beasts by nature.
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Old 09-23-2010   #93
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

Well output is easy right? All I do in my installs is to use lots of large subs to fulfill the requirement. Getting a low distortion sound is far harder. You can't quite double up on drivers and lower some sorts of distortion. There are all sorts of benefits from having lots of copper in the motor that go beyond extending bandwidth.

Since the AE subs are very high sensitivity the increased xmax on the FI should have negligible benefits. How low do these actually equal eachother in output? 30HZ? Then there are heavy AE subs that have more output like the AV series.

The AE imo is unrivaled. The FI however does have fierce competition. Why would you ever get the FI over the CSS? Not all xmax is created equal, the CSS will have a very flat BL by comparison AND shorting rings.

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Old 09-23-2010   #94
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by ItalynStylion View Post
I build an IB mount for the lexus IS300 guys. It gives them the ability to mount any 12" woofer IB through the stock ski pass. At this point I've told them that the main two subs I'd suggest are the Fi IB3 12" and the AE IB12.

(Pic of my IB mount)

Any chance that peice could be adapted to fit an AE IB15? I think there is one FS in the classifieds that has been tempting me for quite a while. I was going to ask about a price, but I assume that info is also posted on my.is.

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Old 09-23-2010   #95
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

The cutout for the IB15 is 14" and the total diameter is 15.5" including the gasket. I don't know the size of the IS mount, but there you go Well, it's rear-mounted so...15.5" to squeeze in between the mounting bolts.

Man, it was unbelievably nice to have even measurements when making a baffle...none of this "finding the radius of 13.968" to make a cutout" nonsense

I'm having deja vu right now...I think I've posted that before

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Old 09-23-2010   #96
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

You can do a 15 in the IS300 like that...I know because that's how I did my IS300.

Couple with the AEIB15 and one with the IDQ15.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IS300sub 001.jpg (100.8 KB, 99 views)
File Type: jpg IS300sub 004.jpg (85.8 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg IS300sub 008.jpg (148.6 KB, 77 views)
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Old 09-23-2010   #97
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

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Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
You can do a 15 in the IS300 like that...I know because that's how I did my IS300.

Couple with the AEIB15 and one with the IDQ15.
Are those 4 mounting bolts with the AEIB15 through the OEM bolt holes? This car is so spotless that I am super neurotic about doing anything that involves permanent modification, including drilling holes. I'm sure in a couple years that feeling will wear off, but right now it is brutal and uncomfortable

FYI, the thread on my.is where Stylion discusses his baffle mounting solution is here: The IS300 Infinite Baffle 12 Setup - my.IS - Lexus IS Forum

Also, did you try turning it around and putting the magnet through the ski-pass hole? I would have to fab up a neat little cover, but it's just a thought to concerve a little bit of trunk space. I can easily screen the dome from the back to keep stuff in the trunk from hitting it, but I can't as easily do that to the basket/motor aseembly.

I swear to you guys I'm going to eventually stop asking inane questions that I could measure myself and just start buying drivers. But right now I am more comfortable being an armchair-audiophile.

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Well, if there's anything we've got extra of in New Zealand, it's sheep...
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Old 09-23-2010   #98
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

Yeah, I'm winslow on my.is and every other forum...I posted my pictures somewhere around post 30.

No, you can't use the factory holes for the 15s. 12s, not a problem. You can even stick the magnet of the AE IB12 inside the ski pass.

It's a Toyota...drill a couple of holes.

If ou hate the thought of drilling 4 holes, you would get sick after seeing me extend the harnesses for the fuseblocks in the kicks to move them out of the way so I could make proper kicks for midbasses...lol. FWIW, there is an ass ton of room down there in the kicks after you spend 9 or so hours solderng and extending wires.
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Old 09-23-2010   #99
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
It's a Toyota...drill a couple of holes.

If ou hate the thought of drilling 4 holes, you would get sick after seeing me extend the harnesses for the fuseblocks in the kicks to move them out of the way so I could make proper kicks for midbasses...lol. FWIW, there is an ass ton of room down there in the kicks after you spend 9 or so hours solderng and extending wires.
haha yeah my harnesses aren't going anywhere, although that does sound like a lot of fun. Like I said, I've only had the car a month, it's the nicest car I've ever owned, yada yada yada. My other car had plenty of "custom" solutions implemented, I'm waiting on this one. Right now I'm looking for a broken factory amp so that I can steal the connector off the board and wire into it to make my own wiring harness, so that I don't have to cut or splice (crimp-on splices take up a TON of space and are ugly) any of the stock amp wiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit_ View Post
Well, if there's anything we've got extra of in New Zealand, it's sheep...
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Old 09-23-2010   #100
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Default Re: Acoustic Elegance IB15 4ohm car version (Idmax comparison)

In all fairness, I kept mine pretty much bone stock for the first year I had mine. And it's the nicest car that I've owned as well...and my last car was cut pretty heavily. With this car I decided to do the system in a way that I was never without tunes.

Why do you want to make your own wiring harness?
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