Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely? - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 08-26-2013   #1
 
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Default Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Let me start off by saying I have a big trunk.

I have 6x9 openings in my rear deck over the trunk and I need some help choosing what's right for me. Originally I had my eyes set on some CDT Gold 6x9's:
CDT Audio ES-0690 Gold

But then searching here about IB subs, I came across the CDT Refurb store which is probably the worst thing I could ever come across. I see two sets of speakers which will fit in my 6x9 openings.
Shop CDT Audio - QES-680 *
And
Shop CDT Audio - CL-69SUB/CF

I realize I'll need to make some mounts for the 6.8, I'm not shy about it, I've made mounts before. At least I think that would work back there. I should probably just stick to the 6x9 speaker size, KISS right?

BUT THEN I was also considering a pair of 8" subs running IB. I know almost nothing about picking out subs for IB other than what little I've read here. There's a lot that's just plain over my head. I think those may be out the window since I don't understand enough to make a correct choice on my own. I'm not looking to be told what to buy, just helped with making the correct choice.

ALSO I don't want to totally eclipse the front speakers. I could have done better picking them but I got a good deal on them and I'm over-driving them a little bit. Infinity Kappa 682.9cf driven by a Pioneer GM-5500T. To my tin ears they sound fine, I'm just worried that if I cram something really amazing in the rear deck I'll hear the rear speakers booming away and pulling me backward. I have some sound shaping options to play with in the head unit, maybe this isn't a valid concern. I'm sort of in over my head and would appreciate some help with all these way too many choices. Please don't add too much more, I'll just get even more confused. Thanks guys!

Cliffs, are the Gold's worth the price premium over the refurb CF's?
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Old 08-27-2013   #2
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Maybe I'm asking too many questions at once or should have put this in the General forum?

I'm just having a little information overload. I've done a little more reading and it sounds like IB 8" subs would probably be the right choice to get a full low end when compared to the CL-69SUB/CF. I'm not sure how IB 8" subs would compare against the CDT Gold 6x9 or how the 6.8 subs compare against any of the 3 above options.

I'm still worried about missing mid range or overpowering the fronts if I get some super duper awesome rear setup. I know coaxial 5x7 Kappa's aren't the best for the front and I should have done something better, but the price was right and externally the vehicle looks stock.
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Old 08-27-2013   #3
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

I tried the CDT 6X9 subs in my rear deck and had to remove them. The deck is only plastic and it vibrated badly even with damping applied. If you can deal with that, they sound pretty good. Nice thing about IB is you don't need much power. I have Kicker free-air 8" subs in another install and they work very well with only 65W each. But the rear deck of that car is steel.

JVC KW-HDR720, Audiocontrol EQL, HAT Imagine 5.25 Mids & Morel Maximo tweets, PPI 900.4 Amp, BA 6X9 Rear Fill, Boston G310 sub in 1/2 cu ft sealed -
1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra
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Old 08-27-2013   #4
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Thankfully my rear deck is structural steel covered by press board with some fuzzy carpet, whatever gets mounted back there can be mounted straight to the steel or onto the plastic stock mounting rings or I'll fashion some rings of my own from real wood (or have my friend rough cut me some for me to finish).

The Kicker CVR8's? How would you say they compare against the CDT 6x9's more directly? I'm sort of inclined to go with 6x9's since I'm not sure what it looks like under the rear deck cover when it comes to space for excursion. Also, most 6x9's are designed for free air use while it seems hit or miss with 8" subwoofers. Some have low Fs and high QTs which would indicate they should be good IB but they're not, some have lower QTs and they're great IB. It seems to be more of a driver by driver basis than strictly specifications. I haven't owned a real sub since a 3rd hand JBL GTX 8" with a rattle I was given in exchange for some car repair in highschool.
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Old 08-28-2013   #5
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

I did some math to figure out how much current I'd need to pull to run those CDT's at full RMS wattage, it's more than I think I want to pull from the alternator. IB subs really may be the correct choice for me. More research required.
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Old 12-23-2013   #6
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

So what about some OEM Lexus IB 8" subs? They're made to run IB for sure.
1998 2005 Lexus GS300 GS400 GS430 Rear Speaker Sub Woofer 86160 3A311 | eBay

Anyone know how many watts these things like to run at RMS and peak? I imagine they can't run more than about 50W RMS and like 75 to 100W peak? I'm not looking to rattle teeth, just good bass and fill in what the 5x7's miss.
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Old 12-24-2013   #7
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

I'm an idiot. I asked my smart friend and he suggested a pair of 8 ohm Tang band 6x9 subs, but they're 8 ohm I protested...then realized they're just rear fill so wire the two 8 ohm to a single 4 ohm load and use a monoblock to power it. It's just rear fill, who cares about stereo! I'm a bonafide idiot sometimes, getting hung up on needing two rear channels.


So now I need to find a 4 ohm 200W RMS mono amp that's compact enough to tuck away somewhere like under the rear deck itself maybe or stick to one side of the trunk up in the corner.
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Old 12-24-2013   #8
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitter View Post
I'm an idiot. I asked my smart friend and he suggested a pair of 8 ohm Tang band 6x9 subs, but they're 8 ohm I protested...then realized they're just rear fill so wire the two 8 ohm to a single 4 ohm load and use a monoblock to power it. It's just rear fill, who cares about stereo! I'm a bonafide idiot sometimes, getting hung up on needing two rear channels.


So now I need to find a 4 ohm 200W RMS mono amp that's compact enough to tuck away somewhere like under the rear deck itself maybe or stick to one side of the trunk up in the corner.
Pretty much any 2 channel amp you should be able to bridge to a 4ohm load for that pair of speakers. Arc FD and Zapco have some cheap ones on ebay for like $100. Being IB you may not even need to bridge it, you'd be surprised how efficient those TB would be even at 8ohm.
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Old 12-24-2013   #9
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Thanks. I'll get a two channel and try it both ways. So something around how many watts RMS at 4ohm ratings per channel would get me where I want? I'd like to be running them at full rated power since I have some over-driven 5x7's upfront.

I get hung up on the trivial details too much when it comes to my projects, then I completely miss the answers staring me in the face. Thank you for the advice.

Hey, wouldn't it help to link the speakers I'm talking about huh?
http://www.parts-express.com/tang-ba...oofer--264-837

Last edited by Bitter; 12-24-2013 at 09:28 PM..
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Old 12-24-2013   #10
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

8 ohm
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w69-1213sb.htm

4 ohm
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w69-1436.htm

being IB you really don't need to run full rms power to them, something like this would probably be fine in stereo mode but you can bridge it if you need to.
Zapco St 2X Amp 2 Channel 170W RMS Component Speakers Subwoofer Amplifier New | eBay
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Old 12-24-2013   #11
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Ah, I couldn't find any 4 ohm 6x9 TB's for sale and when I search that number it seems like it's discontinued. Further reading shows the 8 ohm version to have a better excursion...and it's for sale. Actually both models spec sheets you linked are no longer sold. Only the one I linked is stocked anywhere it seems. Slightly different specs than the one you linked.

The ones I'd buy are calling for 90W RMS at 8 ohm and 170W peak. I figured I'd want at least 50-75W at 8 ohm driving them so that would translate to ..... at 4 ohm?

I see a MB Quart RA400.2 for $110 shipped, way overkill? (on eBay, new)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...tml?show_tab=1

There's also this weird German brand I've never heard of....
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...g-ZX-8200.html

Last edited by Bitter; 12-24-2013 at 09:57 PM..
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Old 12-24-2013   #12
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

definitely no Volfenhag, the quart would probably be fine though.
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Old 12-24-2013   #13
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

I thought as much about the 'Wolf Hag' but sometimes those weird brands are the good ones. Thanks for the help, I think I have a good idea what I need to buy now.
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Old 12-27-2013   #14
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

One last question, I think I know the answer. 8GA or 6GA copper cabling for the RA400.2. It's fused at 40 amps (2x 20A), I'm not sure where in the car I'm sticking it just yet but I can always use extra cabling so I figured I'd just order 20ft of whatever gauge I need.

I believe the correct answer is 'bigger is better'. I already have a power distribution block with fusing so I don't need a fuse holder or any of that jazz, just tin the cable ends, tighten the screws, and pop in a maxi fuse to the block.
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Old 02-14-2014   #15
 
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Finally ordered the Tang Band 6x9's and some 6ga cable. It's started to warm up a little so I got a little fever going. It still will be a couple months till I can get this part of the project done though. Now I read in the comments at Parts Express that these use a different screw pattern than most automotive 6x9's use, can anyone elaborate on that?
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Old 02-14-2014   #16
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Go buy some 1/4" thick cutting boards from walmart/target etc. Easy to make a mounting adapter from those. piece of cake.

It is very easy to conflate cause and effect that are unrelated in audio design. In fact, the entire audiophile industry is based upon this ease of fallacy.

"Heck yeah you can spend more to get the same sound."
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Old 02-14-2014   #17
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Yea, I've made speaker mounts before. I made some nice 6x9 adapters in my old car to fit them into non speaker openings in the rear deck, carved with out of hardwood plywood with a scroll saw and a sanding table one at a time.


I was just curious how they differed in terms of mounting than normal car speakers because they don't look that different to me in the photos.


Car audio 6x9


Tang Band 6x9


Am I just not seeing something obvious? Obvious other than the slight difference in the shape of the frame, though other car audio 6x9 are shaped similarly to the TB's...?

Mazda Bose 6x9 (I do not have the Bose system)
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Old 02-18-2014   #18
 
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Got them today. That's a heavy big ass magnet, damn. My what a large voice coil you have too. Also I see what that comment meant about the mounting. Easy fix.
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Old 02-19-2014   #19
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Just because the perspective of the photo's sort of hides the dimensions of the speaker on PE, here's a nice shot dead on the side with an average sized hand holding the speaker.

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Old 02-19-2014   #20
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

take the two 6X9's and put them face to face, to see how different the screw hole positions are, and then look at the opening. You may have to cut some metal and drill new screw holes if you're going to install them in top mount position.

if you mount them from underneath, you'll need to provide a seal from the speaker flange to the deck metal underneath, usually using an adapter.

for the amount of work involved in building an adapter plate, you could have possibly installed an 8" woofer in IB.

there's not a lot of people who show the adapter plate, the installation, and the results from 6X9 subwoofer installs and yet, many look at the Tang Band option, pretty hard before adding a big sub somewhere in the trunk.
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Old 02-19-2014   #21
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Actually all I need to do is drill some new mounting holes, they pop right into the openings I have. 8" subs would have taken a lot more cutting and work than these, 4 holes and seal up one opening where Mazda passes the stock wiring through and I'm all set.

I'm pretty hell bent on keeping trunk space in this car, and not cutting it up too badly. If I don't get window shattering bass at 10hz I really don't care, I know I won't get that from these. I'm after strong smooth bass from 120hz on down to about 40-45hz, a nice good warm sound.

Last edited by Bitter; 02-19-2014 at 11:33 PM..
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Old 03-11-2014   #22
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

FINALLY had some time on lunch to screw around with this. The torsion bars that open the trunk sit awfully close and one actually sticks to the magnet of the speaker when the trunk is closed, so some slit rubber tube and a hose clamp pulls them together just a little in the right spot to give clearance.

I'd love a couple good suggestions on some kind of compressible but firm material that I could use as a 'gasket' between the metal deck and speaker. There's a slight dish (1 to 2MM) to the deck where the stock speaker sits, the TB's will bolt down fine once I make the new holes but I'd like to have them compress down against something supportive instead of hanging out on the 'rim of the bowl' so to speak. I was thinking thick paperboard maybe since it's got a little compressibility but is fairly firm, I just want to fill in the little depression.
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Old 03-11-2014   #23
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Quote:
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FINALLY had some time on lunch to screw around with this. The torsion bars that open the trunk sit awfully close and one actually sticks to the magnet of the speaker when the trunk is closed, so some slit rubber tube and a hose clamp pulls them together just a little in the right spot to give clearance.

I'd love a couple good suggestions on some kind of compressible but firm material that I could use as a 'gasket' between the metal deck and speaker. There's a slight dish (1 to 2MM) to the deck where the stock speaker sits, the TB's will bolt down fine once I make the new holes but I'd like to have them compress down against something supportive instead of hanging out on the 'rim of the bowl' so to speak. I was thinking thick paperboard maybe since it's got a little compressibility but is fairly firm, I just want to fill in the little depression.

either gasket maker, or caulk.

you could use silicone too.

You are forming a compressible layer, you could put down a layer that comes up about 1/4" from the deck, and compress it with the speaker using a layer of Saran Wrap, or whatever cellophane you have available until there is a uniform layer underneath.

let it cure, remove the cellophane shield and you've got a custom silicone gasket you can compress when you bolt in the speaker.


just don't take the easy road and pump a few shots of adhesive caulk and lay the speaker frame in it, then bolt it down.

that would be bad.
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Old 03-11-2014   #24
 
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

Yea, I don't want to glue the speaker to the car! I have some time to play with this so I'll update with what solution I came up with. A skim coat of bondo crossed my mind as well, but I'd like to be able to put it back to stock easily if need be as well. I'm going to cut some rings out of poster board to get the shape exact then see what kind of thin wood products are available at the local stores. I think maybe a thin sheet of basswood or balsa may do the trick even.
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Default Re: Rear deck 6x9 openings, 6x9, 8" IB subs, or something else entirely?

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Yea, I don't want to glue the speaker to the car! I have some time to play with this so I'll update with what solution I came up with. A skim coat of bondo crossed my mind as well, but I'd like to be able to put it back to stock easily if need be as well. I'm going to cut some rings out of poster board to get the shape exact then see what kind of thin wood products are available at the local stores. I think maybe a thin sheet of basswood or balsa may do the trick even.
go to a flooring place and get some cork underlayment.


it's thin and easy to cut, and compressible.
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