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Old 05-13-2019   #1
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Default Help with front sound stage

Just swapped in new Hertz comps in place of tired 11 year old Boston components.
Here is my question.
Should I have gone with the 3 way set up in order to better bring the stage up and forward? The Silverado doors would have allowed me to mount the 6.5" and 4" drivers in the doors and put the tweeter in the stock A pillar mount which I would have replaced as my truck did not come from the factory with them. Currently the tweeters are mounted in the stock location right above the 6.5" driver.
Any thoughts on moving the front stage up and forward would be great. I have even considered using a DSP like the TWK88 or something from Audison.
Thanks

2007 Silverado Classic Crew Cab
Kenwood DDX 775BH
Alpine MRV F357 5ch
Hertz ESK 165.5 front stage
Alpine 10" S series sub in custom box under rear seat
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Old 05-13-2019   #2
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Turn off your rear speakers, if they are still on. That will do more than anything to bring the stage forward.
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Old 05-13-2019   #3
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

No rears hooked up.
4 channels of amp bridged for the front comps.

2007 Silverado Classic Crew Cab
Kenwood DDX 775BH
Alpine MRV F357 5ch
Hertz ESK 165.5 front stage
Alpine 10" S series sub in custom box under rear seat
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Old 05-13-2019   #4
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

DSP can help, but it's best to physically move the speakers as far and wide in front of you as possible. I don't think you necessarily need to get a 3-way setup, just moving the tweeters to the pillars will make a big difference.
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Old 05-13-2019   #5
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

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Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Turn off your rear speakers, if they are still on. That will do more than anything to bring the stage forward.
ehh, you'd be surprised. Even with rear speakers, when everything is in time and even full range, stereo rear its not that noticeable when everything is in time and of normal-ish frequency response. What he needs is a dsp to do signal delay and eq

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Old 05-13-2019   #6
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Raising up the tweeters, either on the window sail panels or the dash corners.

The DSP will help, if you are not bi amplifying the components, the DSP will allow you to do that, a DSP is not beneficial with passive 2 ch bridged amp or not , it is still only 2 channels.

And depending on the HU features, you may not need a DSP if the HU offers crossovers points to not use the passive crossover boxes.
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Old 05-13-2019   #7
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrojoca View Post
Raising up the tweeters, either on the window sail panels or the dash corners.
this will help too. when everything is tuned properly, the left and right side image will pretty much be where ever the tweeter is

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Old 05-14-2019   #8
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

So it sounds like I should start with finding some stock trim panels for my A pillars with tweeter mounts.
The kenwood head unit does allow for crossover and T/A.
If thats not enough then maybe go active with a DSP.

The only reason I hesitate moving the tweeters up to the A pillars away from the 6.5's in the doors is that it can affect the front stage in a negative way.
Thanks for all the help so far.
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Old 05-16-2019   #9
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Quote:
Originally Posted by aelancaster View Post
So it sounds like I should start with finding some stock trim panels for my A pillars with tweeter mounts.
The kenwood head unit does allow for crossover and T/A.
If thats not enough then maybe go active with a DSP.

The only reason I hesitate moving the tweeters up to the A pillars away from the 6.5's in the doors is that it can affect the front stage in a negative way.
Thanks for all the help so far.
When I started this car Audio hobby, that was my fear. Coming from home audio and old school speakers, they always said, the closer the tweeter is to the midrange the better the sound. Mmm for a home with open living room space, yeah.
In a car it's a totally different environment and much easier to deal with that separation and accept it as decent listenable sound even separated by over 2.5 feet if not more.

I had my tweeters on the dash about 2 feet if not more higher and away fom the midbas and with the Midbass below knee level, and the sound was decent. Most cars in the 2 to late 2000's came with factory bad tweeters placed flat on the dash firing up ( not even on axis or pointing to the center of the roof (the ideal placement ) and not 3 way systems like today, just 2 way crappy systems.

Bottom line if it's too complex and you need custom pillars or there is no possible window sail panel placement for the tweeters, but your tweeters are above knee level, you will be fine, no need to take it to the next level.


TA will not provide the best results unless you are able to amplify each channel individually. Using a passive crossover and one channel per side ( tweeter and mid together) will only help to shift the left image ( as Nick called it) from the left to right to have a more centered stage.

If you provide the HU model number, it will tell us if it has an usable active network and TA. If it does, then we are not talking about just raising the stage and shifting a bit, but maybe tuning for a one seat stage which is the DYMA new world order

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Old 05-17-2019   #10
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Not sure why my equipment list does not show every time I post.
The head unit is a Kenwood DDX775BH.
My solution for moving the tweeters up to the A pillars would be to pick up a set of stock trim pcs. that have the mounting hole already in place for the aftermarket Hertz tweeters I now have in the front doors just above the mid bass drivers.

2007 Silverado Classic Crew Cab
Kenwood DDX 775BH
Alpine MRV F357 5ch
Hertz ESK 165.5 front stage
Alpine 10" S series sub in custom box under rear seat
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Old 05-18-2019   #11
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

With what is available, and those limitations, it will still be better once you move them.

The limitations are, TA with 2 Ch, passives, and the passives jumpers to reduce tweeter decibels assuming that is available.

Any tweeters placed above chest height may offer harsh sound, and will need output reduction, that the jumpers may compensate for.


Try it and if you want to take it to the NWO level, a DSP and sub is the way to go.

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Old 05-18-2019   #12
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Currently running a 10" sub and I am happy with the low end so far. Just trying for a better front stage.

2007 Silverado Classic Crew Cab
Kenwood DDX 775BH
Alpine MRV F357 5ch
Hertz ESK 165.5 front stage
Alpine 10" S series sub in custom box under rear seat
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Old 05-18-2019   #13
 
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Maybe try some temporary tweeter placement. Velcro sticky tape and experiment
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Old 05-18-2019   #14
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

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Originally Posted by grinkeeper View Post
Maybe try some temporary tweeter placement. Velcro sticky tape and experiment
This.

Better, before building custom pillars not knowing if the outcome will be good.

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Old 05-19-2019   #15
 
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Do what SkizeR said and get the DSP. I could never go back to not having time alignment and EQ for each driver, never.

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Old 05-20-2019   #16
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

thanks for all the replies. I think first thing I will try is moving the tweeters up to the A pillars with velcro. If that gets me a little closer I will then go active and add a DSP.
Thanks again

2007 Silverado Classic Crew Cab
Kenwood DDX 775BH
Alpine MRV F357 5ch
Hertz ESK 165.5 front stage
Alpine 10" S series sub in custom box under rear seat
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Old 05-20-2019   #17
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

Even with the passive components and no stand alone DSP, you have enough settings on your Kenwood head unit to get some improvement in tonality and staging. Use the location of your mids for time alignment, and then adjust their relative levels. You also have a shared tweeter level adjustment. (Some Kenwood HUs actually provide an independent L/R tweeter shelf filter/level adjustment which is pretty nice for passive installations.)

Also, when you are testing, don't be afraid to try some of the pre-configured DSP settings in the head unit. You might like how they sound. I'm not thinking so much the bass boost or supreme features. But, the right combination of loudness, drive equalizer, space enhancer, realizer and stage EQ might provide an improvement in tonality and staging. You'll just have to play with it and see. You can even try some of these setting adjustments BEFORE you start messing with tweeter location.

You can check out this video to give you a run down of how to navigate through the audio settings of the head unit.
https://youtu.be/0cdsf7djZFE?t=1100


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Old 05-21-2019   #18
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Default Re: Help with front sound stage

The comedian gang featuring Fernando

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