Anyone with Gen 3 Mazda6 experience, feel free to step in... - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #1
 
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 13


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Mike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Anyone with Gen 3 Mazda6 experience, feel free to step in...

Hi all, new member. If you stumbled across my post in the new member area, you already saw that I have some background in car audio but it's been a while back.

So, I have a 2018 Mazda 6 Grand Touring Reserve with the Bose Centerpoint 11 speaker system. Here's what I know about the system so far:
  • 2 directional tweeters by the mirrors
  • 2 2-3/4" mids (not confirmed, but have read that Mazda switched to 2.75" from 3.5" mids in 2018) in the dash corners, center speaker in dash as well
  • 6.5" mid-bass/subs in the doors (size unconfirmed, have read that they may be 8"), same in rear doors
  • 2 2-3/4" or 3.5" in rear deck
  • Amp under passenger seat. Not sure if h/u is full-range speaker-level or low-level output, as I haven't been able to confirm either. I guess that makes a difference in component selection.

It's not a bad system at all, and there are quite a few things that I like about it. It's certainly better than most GM and Nissan Bose systems that I remember from doing audio professionally years ago.

The staging isn't bad, the mid-bass is acceptable with the windows up or slightly cracked even at highway speeds. The sound overall is fairly flat and pretty balanced, which surprised me with the mid-range speakers firing straight into windshield. I don't notice much frequency cancellation in the front stage, but I'm sure a meter would tell otherwise.

With that out of the way, there are some things that I dislike and would love to remedy:

First, it needs a sub. I'm thinking single 10" or 12", moderately powered.

Second, I'm lacking depth (or fullness maybe) and clarity in the mid-range. I'm not sure how to describe it. It's like when I'm listening to something like Tool, the guitar distortion doesn't isn't replicated in it's full range. It's just a single tone that changes with the notes. Sorry, this is really difficult to describe...

Third, a tweeter upgrade is a must. HF is just lacking, and what's there is sharp and unnatural sounding.



My goal is to improve these areas with as little change or disruption to the interior environment and trunk as possible. Here's what I'm thinking:
  • Morel 254's in the dash (open to recommendations)
  • No clue what type of tweeters I'm looking for (VERY open to recommendations)
  • Either a DSP/amp combo (I've been checking out the Alpine and AudioControl units) to power the mids/tweeters and sub and leave the mid-bass door speakers and center running off the Bose amp OR
  • DSP/amp combo or DSP with separate amps and eliminate the Bose amp altogether (this is certainly an option with some of the modern 8-10/12 channel DSP option these days.
  • Likely won't replace the door speakers or rear deck speakers, but I do want front and rear stage, although my listening is heavily front-biased. Sub will be a removable spare tire unit, though not sure if I'm going to buy one of the powered units on the market or build my own enclosure. I definitely want that signal coming from the DSP and not from Bose amp.

I won't have the ability to fully tune a DSP in the depth and detail that a lot of guys here do. I also don't really want to go down in a rabbit hole with this and end thousands of dollars into by the time I'm done. I just want a rich, warm, balanced sound.

Am I looking in the wrong direction and what would be recommended?
Mike2.5T is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #2
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kentucky, USA
Age: 48
Posts: 388

Thanks: 20
Thanked 86 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 161 cmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Anyone with Gen 3 Mazda6 experience, feel free to step in...

I've also got a 2018 Signature and I have gotten the car's audio wiring schematics from https://www.mazdaserviceinfo.com/ ($20 per day service charge to access the same info that dealer's service departments use.) I've mapped out the factory system fairly well but I'm getting ready to leave work. If you can wait until tomorrow morning, I'll get back on here and give you a good amount of info about the Mazda infotainment system.
cmusic is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #3
 
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 13


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Mike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default

I’m not in a rush and that would be awesome! Thanks so much
Mike2.5T is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #4
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kentucky, USA
Age: 48
Posts: 388

Thanks: 20
Thanked 86 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 161 cmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Anyone with Gen 3 Mazda6 experience, feel free to step in...

I bought my 6 Signature in May of 2018. It was one of the early ones that did not automatically come with Apple Car Play and Android Auto. I did get a free Car Play/Android Auto upgrade last October but the stupid dealer mechanic (the first Car Play/Android Auto upgrade he had done) had to replace the USB module in the center console, which also included the factory NAV SIM card, which he did not insert into the new module. The original USB module did not provide enough electrical power to power iPhones and run Apple Car Play at the same time. Since I used Waze as my main NAV app, it was not until a few weeks later that I noticed the factory NAV did not work and the SIM card was missing. The Mazda dealer refused to take responsibility for removing the SIM card, so I had to pay $55 to buy one from another Mazda dealer off of eBay. Never the less, I really like the Car Play interface. I use the Vox app to play mostly hi-res FLAC files.

I do not use the Bose Centerpoint processing. When Centerpoint is turned off the center channel is only used for phone calls. The center channel is a matching mid to the left and right dash speakers. My settings are as follows: Centerpoint off, Fader set all the way to the front, Balance center, Bass set to 0, and Treble set to +1.

The factory speakers are cheap and fairly generic. The door midbasses play all the way down to about 50 Hz with a factory hi-pass filter in the Bose amp to keep them from distorting. The midbasses, although being about 9” in diameter, are very thin and the cone does not have much movement (X-max), which limits their low frequency performance. The door midbasses and tweeters play off the same channels of the amp, like in a two way component set. The midbasses have no passive crossover and play all the way up to their physical limits while there is a generic crossover hi-passing the tweeter. All three dash mids gets their own independent amp channel. It seems the left and right dash mid is just there to fill in the midrange that the door midbass can’t play up to and the tweeter can’t play down to. It’s like the Bose engineers said “we have a large gap in the midrange just using the midbass and tweeter, lets just add another midrange to fill in the gap. I haven’t tested if there are active crossovers built into the Bose amp yet.

The rear door speakers are on their own independent amp channels while the mids in the rear deck are on one channel and are played in mono. If you fade the system all the way to the back, you will hear no bass and no treble. I estimate the rear doors are cut off around 500 Hz and below.

Overall the Bose system does sound ok and slightly better than other factory systems I have heard but nowhere near audiophile quality level.

There is a “Tuner and amp unit” located in the dash to the right side of the glovebox. PAC audio makes an adaptor that plugs into this unit that has RCA outputs, but it is not certified to be used with 2018-2019 6s. Coming out of this unit and going to the Bose amp are left and right front and rear audio signal wires and an “Audio Pilot” wire that should be similar to RCA cables. The Audio Pilot wire should carry the center channel and NAV sounds. I have not tested them yet but I suspect the signal wires are probably un-equalized full range stereo. I’m hoping any eq/active crossover work is done in the Bose amp and that the factory volume knob adjusts the volume in the tuner unit and not in the Bose amp. If so one could just tap into these signal wires and run them directly into the RCA inputs of a DSP and still be able to use the factory volume knob!

If I have to use the speaker outputs of the Bose amp to go to my DSP, I have a JL Audio Fix-82 that will “correct” the Bose eq to give me a flat signal.

In my system I plan on not touching the center or rear channels coming out of the amp. Since I am not using Centerpoint processing, the center channel is used only for phone calls. Since I have the audio faded all the way forward, only the rear deck mids play the warning beeps when I am backing up. I will either tap into the front left and right signal wires before the Bose amp (preferred) or run the front four (L/R doors and L/R dash) speaker channels into my JL Fix-82.

As far as speaker layout I am going to use I will start out with tweeters in the factory dash locations, mids in the kick panels, midbasses probably under the dash on the firewall, and subs in the trunk. The a-pillars have the side defroster vents in them and unless you are willing to get rid of them putting mids and tweeters on the a-pillars will require you to build them out from the a-pillar and blocking forward vision, which is something I don’t want to do. I did buy a spare set of a-pillars from my Mazda dealer (at $276 a set!) if I ever want to custom build mids and/or tweeters into them.

As far as speakers go, Morels have a really good reputation, but the overall sound will mostly come down to install and tuning. I don’t know what your budget is so I can’t really recommend certain speakers yet. I would not recommend using the factory door midbasses. I would replace them with a thin (under 2-3/4” mounting depth) 6-1/2” to 8” midbass. Metra makes a speaker adapter plate that will fit the 6: https://smile.amazon.com/Metra-82-75...ronics&sr=1-12

I would bypass the Bose amp on the front channels and run the signal to a DSP/amp combo like from a reputable company like Audio Control, JL Audio, Arc Audio, Zapco and other well respected brands. That will give you the best bang for the buck.

As far as install pics go, look on page 3 of this thread: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ld-thread.html

Although Jay's 6 is a 2016, the metal structure of the 6 under the panels has not changed.

Hope this helps the let me know if you need any more info!
cmusic is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #5
 
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 13


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Mike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default

That is great info, thanks so much.

I’ll note that it is confirmed that the harness on the tuner behind the glovebox is different in the 2018 and the PAC adapter will not work.

So if I’m understanding your info, you have not confirmed if the output from the radio is full-range or if it is speaker-level or pre-amp level?

Can you confirm if the dash speakers are indeed 2.75”? I’ve seen multiple sources say they moved to that size from 3.5” on all of the facelifted models.
Mike2.5T is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #6
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kentucky, USA
Age: 48
Posts: 388

Thanks: 20
Thanked 86 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 161 cmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Anyone with Gen 3 Mazda6 experience, feel free to step in...

Correct, I have not confirmed if the radio tuner output going to the Bose amp is full range. However I do think it is since Bose most likely only worked on the amp and speakers. The tuner module would have been designed by Mazda to work with the infotainment system.

Also in my previous car, a Lexus IS250, the factory system was set up in exactly the same way. Once I found the signal wires going from the factory radio to the amp, I just tapped into them and had a full range flat signal just like out of an aftermarket deck. The only downfall was the factory volume was done in the amp, so I had to add an aftermarket volume control (JL Audio CL-RLC).

If the factory volume control works in the Bose amp and not in the tuner radio, I can always use the volume control of my DSP as the master system volume if I choose to tap the signal before it going into the Bose amp. This will get the cleanest audio signal to send to the DSP.

Hopefully I will be testing the factory amp shortly.

I have only lifted the speaker grills off the factory speakers once last year to get a quick look at them, but they look larger than 2.75". I haven't measured them but they look to be 3.5".
cmusic is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #7
 
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 13


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Mike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default

Since Mazda uses the same h/u in both the Bose and non, and being that have mastered the art of cross-platform architecture, I’m assuming, as you said, that it’s a full-range speaker-level signal either off the h/u or out of the tuner. It makes sense so that the same equipment could be used in Bose and non-Bose.

I like your idea of integrating a DSP for certain channels and letting other channels continue to run through the Bose amp. I think that is the best (maybe even only) way to keep the functionality of the phone support and b/u warnings, etc.

I’m not completely sold on the Morels and if it is a 3.5” in the dash then I have a lot more options. I need to pop a panel off and measure it. A 3-way active set off of a dsp/amp up front could be pretty incredible and not terribly expensive.

I’m surprised that it’s such a large woofer in the door. My original plans were to leave those alone and keep them on the Bose amp, but holy hell I could put together a great setup by ditching them.

Thanks for the info and all the time to type it out. Are there any sources that you know of for wiring diagrams of the h/u to tuner to Bose amp?
Mike2.5T is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #8
 
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 13


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Mike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default

Just popped the grill off of one of my dash speakers. Speaker size confirmed at 3.5” with a 4.25” mounting space.

Hello bright new world lol
Mike2.5T is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #9
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kentucky, USA
Age: 48
Posts: 388

Thanks: 20
Thanked 86 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 161 cmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enoughcmusic will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: Anyone with Gen 3 Mazda6 experience, feel free to step in...

https://www.mazdaserviceinfo.com/ is the best place for info about the car. It's the same info all Mazda dealers and service departments use. However it is expensive, it's raised to $29.95 for a 24 hour access period. You can't print out info from the site, but you can use the snipping tool (in Windows) to capture screen photos of the various pages of information.

If you get on this website, search for the following pages for the wiring schmatics:

Bose amp plug diagrams: 0920-322A, 0920-322B, and 0920-322C

Bose amp and speaker wiring diagrams: 0920-3f, 0920-3e, 0920-3d, 0920-3c, 0920-3b, 0920-3a

You can also search terms like "driver's side door removal" to find step by step pictures and diagrams of how to take the interior panels apart.

Hope this helps,
cmusic is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #10
 
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 13


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Mike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enoughMike2.5T will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default

Thanks so much. I appreciate all the info.
Mike2.5T is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
First name
Last name
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Youtube Channel
Enter Your Youtube Username, And It will Be Linked To In Your Posts!
12V Industry - Company Name
Your company name.
12V Industry - Your Position
Your position in your company.

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Ad Management by RedTyger

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy