Overwhelmed!!! Need advise/suggestions with 2106 Mazda 6 Bose dash speaker swap... - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 07-25-2019   #1
 
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Default Overwhelmed!!! Need advise/suggestions with 2106 Mazda 6 Bose dash speaker swap...

Fellas my hats off to the knowledge you guys have as enthusiast! Incredible what some of you do and then on top of it all you share what you know! Very commendable. Now let me pick your brains!

I've spent a pile of dough over the last 32 years starting out with M&M Godfather 10s, tweeters, mids, all running on an Orion HCCA 225, and a Denon cassette deck in a Dodge Daytona. In it's day it was a killer system! I've cut holes and butchered cars along the way. Those days are no more...

Recently I started driving our 2016 Mazda 6GT with Bose and had to add a sub. So I got a PAC module and ran RCAs and a remote turn-on from the Pac to the trunk and on the other side ran a 4ga power cable and line for the RUX knob for an Alpine PDR-M65 and a JL HO110RG-W3v3 box. It came out nice and made the Bose system MUCH better! It's actually quite musical. That is up to a certain volume. I guess I'll learn to live with it because I'm just not interested in cutting wires and making holes or modifying the car (although I did drill a hole in the fire wall to run the 4ga to the battery and yes I used a rubber grommet too). Guess I'm getting old!

So where am I going with this? Well I would like to swap the dash "twiddlers" with some better 3.5" 4 ohm midrange speakers. Not looking to break the bank seeing how I'm leaving the Bose amp in place and we're up against it's limitations. I know a lot of you like the Morels but they are only 2.5" so thinking if I can go 3.5" bigger is better. I've read here where some of you recommend speakers I've never heard of but the spec's and price seem to be in the ballpark for what I'm thinking. They are:

-Tang Band W3-1797S 3" Neodymium Midrange Driver - $60.51ea
-Wavecor FR090WA01 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range 4 Ohm - $60.00ea
-FaitalPRO 3FE22 3" Neodymium Professional Full-Range Woofer 4 Ohm -
$33.00ea
-SB Acoustics SB65WBAC25-4 2.5" Full Range - $28.25 (another 2.5")
I'm also completely open to your suggestions as well. They need to be efficient and cover a pretty good range as this system doesn't run tweeters and fires into the windshield.

Also should I change the center speaker to match? What about "wideband" speakers (new to me so not sure of it's application)? Should I put a passive high pass crossover on the speakers? 6db or 12db? What hertz? Thanks guys! I look forward to your recommendations! Dave
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Old 07-26-2019   #2
 
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Default Re: Overwhelmed!!! Need advise/suggestions with 2106 Mazda 6 Bose dash speaker swap..

The problem you’re going to have is the Bose amp includes digital signal processing to make the factory speakers sound better and to address any issues with the car as a car isn’t a great environment for quality audio. So if you add a speaker using the OEM Bose amp, it may sound worse. Also, you may lose some volume if the speaker you choose is less sensitive (needs more power for same output). I hate to say it but it would be a crap shoot as to whether it will turn out well, even if you use known good speakers.

I understand what you’re wanting to do but I would caution you that your results might turn out worse. If you decided to move forward with adding an amp and speakers (bypassing the Bose amp) that is what I’d recommend as you’ll actually have some control of the results. You’d start by adding a JL Fix or similar, which takes the signal from the factory Bose system, uses digital signal processing to restore the signal (remove Bose DSP) to flat (or desired curve), and then feeds that signal to amps for speakers/subs.

And a wideband speaker is one that tries to cover the midrange from say 300/400 Hz up to say 15,000 Hz. Meaning it tries to cover the midrange (but not lower midrange/midbass) as well as some of a tweeter. Some like it and say they don’t even need a tweeter. But this is a very wide frequency range and most would rather have a tweeter and midrange as then you don’t miss any frequency coverage like a wideband usually does on the top end. And if you’re going to use a tweeter, why not just use a normal midrange, no reason at all for a wideband.

Last edited by dgage; 07-26-2019 at 02:17 AM..
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Old 07-26-2019   #3
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Default Re: Overwhelmed!!! Need advise/suggestions with 2106 Mazda 6 Bose dash speaker swap..

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
The problem you’re going to have is the Bose amp includes digital signal processing to make the factory speakers sound better and to address any issues with the car as a car isn’t a great environment for quality audio.

I’d recommend as you’ll actually have some control of the results. You’d start by adding a JL Fix or similar, which takes the signal from the factory Bose system, uses digital signal processing to restore the signal (remove Bose DSP) to flat (or desired curve), and then feeds that signal to amps for speakers/subs.
The problem with using a JL Fix on newer bose systems is that Bose is using all pass filters to correct phase. The JL Fix will not fix this

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Old 07-26-2019   #4
 
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Default Re: Overwhelmed!!! Need advise/suggestions with 2106 Mazda 6 Bose dash speaker swap..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
The problem with using a JL Fix on newer bose systems is that Bose is using all pass filters to correct phase. The JL Fix will not fix this
Thanks for bringing your installer knowledge and correcting me. Good to know. What’s your recommendation for dealing with the newer Bose systems while keeping the OEM head unit?
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Old 07-26-2019   #5
 
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Default Re: Overwhelmed!!! Need advise/suggestions with 2106 Mazda 6 Bose dash speaker swap..

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
The problem you’re going to have is the Bose amp includes digital signal processing to make the factory speakers sound better and to address any issues with the car as a car isn’t a great environment for quality audio. So if you add a speaker using the OEM Bose amp, it may sound worse. Also, you may lose some volume if the speaker you choose is less sensitive (needs more power for same output). I hate to say it but it would be a crap shoot as to whether it will turn out well, even if you use known good speakers.

I understand what you’re wanting to do but I would caution you that your results might turn out worse. If you decided to move forward with adding an amp and speakers (bypassing the Bose amp) that is what I’d recommend as you’ll actually have some control of the results. You’d start by adding a JL Fix or similar, which takes the signal from the factory Bose system, uses digital signal processing to restore the signal (remove Bose DSP) to flat (or desired curve), and then feeds that signal to amps for speakers/subs.

And a wideband speaker is one that tries to cover the midrange from say 300/400 Hz up to say 15,000 Hz. Meaning it tries to cover the midrange (but not lower midrange/midbass) as well as some of a tweeter. Some like it and say they don’t even need a tweeter. But this is a very wide frequency range and most would rather have a tweeter and midrange as then you don’t miss any frequency coverage like a wideband usually does on the top end. And if you’re going to use a tweeter, why not just use a normal midrange, no reason at all for a wideband.




This is a copy and paste from rton20s in another post:

I noticed the same thing and I talked to Joe McCabe about it. (He has worked on similar Bose systems, but not the Mazda 6.) This is what he has to say...

"The amp will have Dynamic EQ which is the Bose version of loudness restoration. It uses a input level detector so it is constantly changing the amount of low frequency boost, based off the strength of the input signal to the amp. This means that the volume knob position has NO effect on the amount of boost!!! Obviously turning the volume up will reduce the boost but a set and forget approach won't take into account this aspect."

"First upgrade the loudspeakers, and then add more power to them. Use the Bose amp as a built-in DSP in that scenario and it has loudness in the Bose amp as well. If you need below 35-40Hz, then yes, tapping into the system between the H/U and amp should provide for this."





Just wanting to upgrade the dash drivers is my thought for now. Something efficient, warm and with some range. I have seen somewhere on the world wide web a Bose pdf that breaks down what each driver in the system is. It gave size, impedance, & I think efficiency. Don't recall if it had frequency response... I'll have to try and find and post it and maybe we can come up with something.
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Old 07-26-2019   #6
 
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Default Re: Overwhelmed!!! Need advise/suggestions with 2106 Mazda 6 Bose dash speaker swap..

Here's the document I'm referencing:


(Too new to post link but attachment is the document)
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Old 07-26-2019   #7
 
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Default Re: Overwhelmed!!! Need advise/suggestions with 2106 Mazda 6 Bose dash speaker swap..

Without knowing the sensitivity of your speaker, I still say it will be a crap shoot determining the output. You might get a mid that is too loud or a mid that is too quiet, pretty lucky if the sensitivity is a perfect match.

You could get the sensitivity measured but you’d have to have a microphone with a microphone calibrator to ensure the decibel level measured is accurate. Then you’d just need the speaker and an amp turned down to only output 1w and 2.83V so you can get both popular sensitivity measurements to help you find a compatible speaker.

You could potentially send your speaker to someone on DIYMA with the necessary equipment to measure for you. You might get very lucky and find a shop near you but they’d probably try to sell you a system.

Alternative is to just pick a mid or two and try it out. But like I said, you’ll just be guessing on how the speaker will interact with the amp and other speakers. So I’d probably start with the Faital Pro 3FE22 since that is 3”, fairly high sensitivity, and inexpensive. That would be inexpensive to get you a baseline on whether you need a more or less sensitive speaker.
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