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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #1
 
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Default Subwoofer choice

I'm new to car audio I'd like to stick with pioneer with my first system I already had the deh-s6000bs stereo and ts-a1670f speakers but idk what to choose for the subs I'm thinking getting two of the ts-a120d4 but I don't know what amp to get that will work good with this setup. I want really good sound and bass but not the best of the best since it's only my first system. I would prefer to spend less than 400 for the subs, box, and amp unless absolutely necessary with this setup. Ps I drive a 2002 honda crv not too worried about space.
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galexqwerty View Post
I'm new to car audio I'd like to stick with pioneer with my first system I already had the deh-s6000bs stereo and ts-a1670f speakers but idk what to choose for the subs I'm thinking getting two of the ts-a120d4 but I don't know what amp to get that will work good with this setup. I want really good sound and bass but not the best of the best since it's only my first system. I would prefer to spend less than 400 for the subs, box, and amp unless absolutely necessary with this setup. Ps I drive a 2002 honda crv not too worried about space.
Why two of them?
Would one better sub be better?

How much SPL do you want to have?
What are you sound quality (and SPL) goals?
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Probably be best to stick with a single 12 in a ported box for now. Even that will over power your existing front speakers. So adding a second would just be wasting money.

But if you do go with a pair of 12's get the D2 version so your final wired load at the amp will be 2 ohm.

You can buy a 12" ported box on amazon for around $50 and maybe some cheap rockville mono amp for $150 and call it done.

Don't forget to save a few bucks for wiring.

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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Pioneer GM-D8601mono amp - $130
Rockford Fosgate P3D4 12" - $190
Sound Ordnance BB12-200V - $80
Knukonceptz 4 gauge OFC amp kit - $60

Done, mind blown, thank me later

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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post

Why two of them?
Would one better sub be better?

How much SPL do you want to have?
What are you sound quality (and SPL) goals?
I've been told my car is bigger and 2 would sound better
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galexqwerty View Post
I've been told my car is bigger and 2 would sound better
While more cone area generally translates to lower distortion for the same output, multiples aren't necessarily the answer. If you can get similar cone area out of a single driver, you generally keep costs lower...enclosure is less complex, 1 driver i/o 2, might simplify wiring, probably less weight, etc. All things considered it should be less effort and coin for the same result as long as you can fit a larger driver.
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galexqwerty View Post
I've been told my car is bigger and 2 would sound better
How would you know if those that are doing the telling... are telling the truth?
And in what way(s) do two sound better?
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post

How would you know if those that are doing the telling... are telling the truth?
And in what way(s) do two sound better?
he has been doing sound systems in all his cars and he said I probably wouldn't be able to feel the single sub
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galexqwerty View Post
he has been doing sound systems in all his cars and he said I probably wouldn't be able to feel the single sub
well then it must be true.

You don't have the front stage to keep up with 2 12's. Sorry, but there are some things that come into play here besides the size of your car.

Aside from that and if all you are looking for is bass, then get a single 15. Something like the RM-15 from Stereo Integrity. Get a D4 and find an amp that will put out about 1500 watts at 2 ohms.

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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by miniSQ View Post
well then it must be true.
...
^Absolutely^


Two sealed subs would likely be ~1/2 the SPL of a single ported.
So it sort of depends on what that expert is suggesting, then needs to be fully understood in the broader context.

Alternatively one could use the frequency range and SPL to determine what is required, if they are adverse to relying on personal testimony.

There are some advantages with multiple large subwoofer.
And one of the drawbacks is electrical power requirements.
Hence there are a few compromises to weigh up.
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
Two sealed subs would likely be ~1/2 the SPL of a single ported.
So it sort of depends on what that expert is suggesting, then needs to be fully understood in the broader context.
You know this but for others I will qualify Holmz statement as it depends on the frequency. If all you’re going for is above 40 Hz then the ported would likely have that advantage. Below 30 and the sealed would start to regain an advantage if there is enough power on tap.
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
You know this but for others I will qualify Holmz statement as it depends on the frequency. If all youíre going for is above 40 Hz then the ported would likely have that advantage. Below 30 and the sealed would start to regain an advantage if there is enough power on tap.
Iíd have said the exact opposite, generally a ported sub is used to extend the low end of a sub and increase freqs below 40hz as the boost is centred around tuning which is generally 25-30hz for sq ported enclosures, so for me a ported sub wins below 40hz... I still prefer the sealed sound though regardless if Iím honest 👍🏼
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

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Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
Iíd have said the exact opposite, generally a ported sub is used to extend the low end of a sub and increase freqs below 40hz as the boost is centred around tuning which is generally 25-30hz for sq ported enclosures, so for me a ported sub wins below 40hz... I still prefer the sealed sound though regardless if Iím honest 👍🏼
Youíre right, while sealed is simple, you could add a Linkwitz Transform to extend the low end, which is what I do with all of my sealed subs so they mirror the low-end extension curve of ported. But with ported, since the sub unloads (read no excursion control from the enclosure) below port tune, a ported sub needs a high-pass crossover to keep the deep notes from destroying the ported sub. So with similar subs and enclosures, the sealed should have more deep output simply due to protecting the driver in ported. But if you have a long enough port and a big enough enclosure, ported could definitely be tweaked for deeper output.

As an aside, an 8 Hz pipe organ note is reproduced using a 64 ft pipe. Iíve sold several of my 18Ē home theater subs to pipe organ builders to reproduce deep bass for their pipe organ consoles.
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Sealed doesn't really need a Linkwitz transform. Cabin gain is that. All you need is the sub to have enough excursion and a little but of EQ. If ported, expect to use parametric to reel the response in, especially if digging low. That's if a smooth response is desired. Of course any of this depends on the nature of the sub in use. If you don't need all out brute output, a Dayton HO sealed (10" or 12" single coil versions) with good power will break you into how a sub should sound.

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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Even if one gets a boost by using a port, just below the port the thing unloads, and it is pretty easy to quickly destroy a sub woofer.
Then there are also 6th and 8th order boxes, etc.

If it was me I would maybe start with a sealed box and if so much SPL is required that the electrical system needs a bunch of money, then I would look at a ported.

On the other side: if a ported goes low enough in frequency, then just go with that and one needs maybe a 500w amp... (which will be like a 2kW amp on a sealed.)

Then harmonic distortion and sound quality may favour a ported or higher order box... but there is group delay and impulse response.

One either needs power, space/volume, or a way to deal with group delay.
Or they need to not want ear splitting and chest rattling SPLevels.

It sort of comes back to goals and requirements, and also budget, and also what needs to happen in a vehicle.
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Lots of great feedback on here, although we still don't know your goals. Are you looking for an SQ setup? If so, one 12 is more than enough considering your front stage. Although, your responses seem to point in more of an SPL build. Once you confirm what you want, take the advice you find here. There's a lot of experience in here.

Josh
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by fischman View Post
...
... Once you confirm what you want, take the advice you find here. There's a lot of experience in here.

Josh
Josh I agree wholeheartedly.

But also in skeptic sense, why should the OP believe what we write?

I just want to arm him/her with the questions and chin-scratchers to allow them to not look back in regret... thinking, "If only I asked blah".

Helping he or she working through the tradespace and understanding why and how a solution works relevant to their goals... Is where my motivation is at.

And I think I can argue for a sealed, ported or transmission line, without knowing what they need and what the limiting factors are.

We all can all probably do that
(The solution space is huge, which helps)

But there are a certain number of people that just want to know what to buy, and not the why part.
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fischman View Post
...
... Once you confirm what you want, take the advice you find here. There's a lot of experience in here.

Josh
Josh I agree wholeheartedly.

But also in skeptic sense, why should the OP believe what we write?

I just want to arm him/her with the questions and chin-scratchers to allow them to not look back in regret... thinking, "If only I asked blah".

Helping he or she working through the tradespace and understanding why and how a solution works relevant to their goals... Is where my motivation is at.

And I think I can argue for a sealed, ported or transmission line, without knowing what they need and what the limiting factors are.

We all can all probably do that
(The solution space is huge, which helps)

But there are a certain number of people that just want to know what to buy, and not the why part.
Fair point. I should state, as is most situations in life, always confirm information and don't just accept it even if the source seems good. I think I was basing my comment on situations I've seen where people are provided with good info/options and continue to ignore it. I'm not saying that happened in this situation, but wanted to vouch for the great wealth of knowledge that I've taken advantage of on here.

Josh
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Default Re: Subwoofer choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by fischman View Post
Fair point. I should state, as is most situations in life, always confirm information and don't just accept it even if the source seems good. I think I was basing my comment on situations I've seen where people are provided with good info/options and continue to ignore it. I'm not saying that happened in this situation, but wanted to vouch for the great wealth of knowledge that I've taken advantage of on here.

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