To rear fill or not to rear fill? - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2017   #1
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Dan750iL's Avatar
 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Maryland
Age: 53
Posts: 417

Thanks: 31
Thanked 91 Times in 73 Posts
Rep Power: 51 Dan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (9)



Default To rear fill or not to rear fill?

That is my question.

Vehicle: 2004 Dodge Dakota extended cab

Three way active in the front with a sub in a truck box or two way active up front and coaxial rear fill with a sub in a truck box in the back?

Pioneer head unit (can't remember the model. Not at home right now)

TwK 88 DSP

Amp options
MB Quart MA1-440.4 x2 or
JL Audio XD600/6v2 and RF Prime R750-1D for the sub

CDT Audio drivers up front (HD6, ES02, TW26 for 3 way, HD6 and TW26 for 2 way)
Alpine SPR-50 C in the back if using fill

8" Polk Audio MM840 sub in a prefab custom box
Dan750iL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-22-2017   #2
 
High Resolution Audio's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,942

Thanks: 232
Thanked 136 Times in 113 Posts
Rep Power: 83 High Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Rear fill was intended for passengers in the back seat. Are you planning on carrying passengers? and do you care if they have music to listen to?

High Resolution Audio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2017   #3
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Dan750iL's Avatar
 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Maryland
Age: 53
Posts: 417

Thanks: 31
Thanked 91 Times in 73 Posts
Rep Power: 51 Dan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (9)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Nope and nope. That was easy.

Thanks.
Dan750iL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2017   #4
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Aurora, Co
Age: 36
Posts: 6,568

Thanks: 0
Thanked 470 Times in 399 Posts
Rep Power: 372 gijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Rear fill ( unless heavily processed) will hurt the stereo image plain and simple.
gijoe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2017   #5
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,988

Thanks: 102
Thanked 185 Times in 146 Posts
Rep Power: 111 seafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura aboutseafish has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (48)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Rear fill that is properly band passed, attenuated and delayed can in fact add ambience that does not at all detract from the front stage and that some peple very much enjoy. When done correctly, it can even widen the front stage.
seafish is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2017   #6
 
SQLnovice's Avatar
 
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,296

Thanks: 136
Thanked 62 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 77 SQLnovice will become famous soon enoughSQLnovice will become famous soon enoughSQLnovice will become famous soon enoughSQLnovice will become famous soon enoughSQLnovice will become famous soon enoughSQLnovice will become famous soon enoughSQLnovice will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (14)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

I disconnected my rear fill and haven't missed it yet for the past 2 years. It boils down to personal preference. I would say experiment without it and see.
SQLnovice is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #7
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,546

Thanks: 569
Thanked 214 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 327 I800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Loved the space it added. Also helped set my stage deep. I could steer the stage to just in front of my car. Very weird to experience

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
My '13 Jetta build...not finished
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #8
 
High Resolution Audio's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,942

Thanks: 232
Thanked 136 Times in 113 Posts
Rep Power: 83 High Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
Loved the space it added. Also helped set my stage deep. I could steer the stage to just in front of my car. Very weird to experience

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Do you compete? And /or are you going to Jasons GTG in North Carolina?

High Resolution Audio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #9
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Aurora, Co
Age: 36
Posts: 6,568

Thanks: 0
Thanked 470 Times in 399 Posts
Rep Power: 372 gijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

When having the rear fill debate it's very important to discuss the stereo illusion. The stereo illusion is something that (surprisingly) many people don't even understand. Part of that problem is because so much music is recorded so poorly that it's basically mono anyway, the other part is that most people listen to music passively, not actively. They put it on, but don't pay attention to anything more than the chorus, or the beat.

Stereo is designed to create a sense of space, much like 2 eyes are required for depth perception, 2 ears, and 2 channels of audio can create an illusion of space. This is where staging and imaging come into the mix. Put on a good pair of headphones, find some well recorded music, stop what you're doing, and listen.

The rear fill debate comes down to, how important are those stereo illusions to you? If they are important, rear speakers (unless heavily processed) will have a negative impact on that illusion. If staging and imaging are not important (in a car with all of the outside noise, and the fact that your attention should be on driving, not the music anyway, it's reasonable for even the most passionate audiophile to not care about proper stereo in a car) then rear speakers can add output and a more immersive experience.

Having a car stereo with or without rear fill is a matter of preference. If the stereo illusion is important in the car, then no rear fill or heavily processed rear fill is the way to go.
gijoe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to gijoe For This Useful Post:
tonynca (07-13-2019)
Old 02-23-2017   #10
 
High Resolution Audio's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,942

Thanks: 232
Thanked 136 Times in 113 Posts
Rep Power: 83 High Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enoughHigh Resolution Audio will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
When having the rear fill debate it's very important to discuss the stereo illusion. The stereo illusion is something that (surprisingly) many people don't even understand. Part of that problem is because so much music is recorded so poorly that it's basically mono anyway, the other part is that most people listen to music passively, not actively. They put it on, but don't pay attention to anything more than the chorus, or the beat.

Stereo is designed to create a sense of space, much like 2 eyes are required for depth perception, 2 ears, and 2 channels of audio can create an illusion of space. This is where staging and imaging come into the mix. Put on a good pair of headphones, find some well recorded music, stop what you're doing, and listen.

The rear fill debate comes down to, how important are those stereo illusions to you? If they are important, rear speakers (unless heavily processed) will have a negative impact on that illusion. If staging and imaging are not important (in a car with all of the outside noise, and the fact that your attention should be on driving, not the music anyway, it's reasonable for even the most passionate audiophile to not care about proper stereo in a car) then rear speakers can add output and a more immersive experience.

Having a car stereo with or without rear fill is a matter of preference. If the stereo illusion is important in the car, then no rear fill or heavily processed rear fill is the way to go.
Excellent points. I for one, at this point in time, do not subscribe to the rear fill philosophy, because for me stereo imaging is what I'm interested in. However, some people have mentioned that if rear fill is done a certain way, ( with delay and low volume and whatever else ) it can add to the imaging in a positive way.

I would like to hear for myself.

High Resolution Audio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #11
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Aurora, Co
Age: 36
Posts: 6,568

Thanks: 0
Thanked 470 Times in 399 Posts
Rep Power: 372 gijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Resolution Audio View Post
Excellent points. I for one, at this point in time, do not subscribe to the rear fill philosophy, because for me stereo imaging is what I'm interested in. However, some people have mentioned that if rear fill is done a certain way, ( with delay and low volume and whatever else ) it can add to the imaging in a positive way.

I would like to hear for myself.
I also run front stage only, in my garage it sounds brilliant, but while I'm driving I'm paying attention to traffic, checking my mirrors continuously, making sure I'm in the correct lane, etc. In my day to day driving, I rarely have the luxury of actively listening to music in the car. I can passively listen, even roll down the windows and sing, but it is very, very rare that I can divert my attention so far away from the task of driving that the stereo imagery is significantly noticeable. I would even go so far as to say that if anyone is paying that close attention to the music in their car while driving, that they are likely the asshole in the left lane holding up traffic

If the process of driving your car isn't getting the vast majority of your attention, you shouldn't be driving.
gijoe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to gijoe For This Useful Post:
Alain93 (07-07-2017)
Old 02-23-2017   #12
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
SkizeR's Avatar
 
Prisoner
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 17,283

12V Company:
Apicella Auto Sound
Position:
Janitor

Thanks: 1,109
Thanked 1,736 Times in 1,208 Posts
Rep Power: 454 SkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (42)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

To everyone saying no to rear fill, I highly suggest looking for a car with a proper rear fill set up and getting a listen. Some of the best competition cars use it. It does in no way detract from the stereo image, and even helps push the boundaries of the sound stage even further if done right.

To the op, you won't be able to do a proper rear fill set up with the twk processor

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

SkizeR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #13
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Dan750iL's Avatar
 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Maryland
Age: 53
Posts: 417

Thanks: 31
Thanked 91 Times in 73 Posts
Rep Power: 51 Dan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (9)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
...To the op, you won't be able to do a proper rear fill set up with the twk processor

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
No worries. I was leaning in the other direction anyway but am liking the conversation about it. Lurning moar stuffs!!!

Edit: Pretty sure I saw a thread that talks about setting rear fill up recently. Took note of that one for when I set my car up. I have a DSP Pro for the car.

Last edited by Dan750iL; 02-23-2017 at 12:26 PM..
Dan750iL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #14
 
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0 cadeet will become famous soon enoughcadeet will become famous soon enoughcadeet will become famous soon enoughcadeet will become famous soon enoughcadeet will become famous soon enoughcadeet will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

I have rears & will use them. Curious what is the typical band-pass area & how much attenuation is needed to add some fill, without distorting the image? This will be in a double cab Tundra for reference.
cadeet is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #15
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Aurora, Co
Age: 36
Posts: 6,568

Thanks: 0
Thanked 470 Times in 399 Posts
Rep Power: 372 gijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond reputegijoe has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadeet View Post
I have rears & will use them. Curious what is the typical band-pass area & how much attenuation is needed to add some fill, without distorting the image? This will be in a double cab Tundra for reference.

Really, anything above about 120hz will be localizable behind you. You'll want significant attenuation. Since you won't have L-R processing, time delay, and level matching to do it "correctly" you'll just have to see what level gives you the sound you like the best.
gijoe is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #16
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,546

Thanks: 569
Thanked 214 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 327 I800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Resolution Audio View Post
Do you compete? And /or are you going to Jasons GTG in North Carolina?
I definitely don't compete. Just been trying to figure out how to reproduce what I like whenever I want it

I feel like I've gotten good at that but I don't have rear fill anymore. I'm front stage only and I don't think I could ever get that significantly deep stage without proper fill.

Proper fill doesn't take away from stereo at all. A competing rear stereo stage does.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
My '13 Jetta build...not finished
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #17
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 815

Thanks: 3
Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts
Rep Power: 137 JVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the roughJVD240 is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (17)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Resolution Audio View Post
Excellent points. I for one, at this point in time, do not subscribe to the rear fill philosophy, because for me stereo imaging is what I'm interested in. However, some people have mentioned that if rear fill is done a certain way, ( with delay and low volume and whatever else ) it can add to the imaging in a positive way.

I would like to hear for myself.
Attenuated/delayed/bandpassed L-R rear fill is intended to add a sense of space. It's to simulate a larger room than the physical (small) boundaries of a car.

I think it's important to make that distinction before dismissing it.

If you do not have the hardware to use this method, then yes, you will hurt the stereo image.
JVD240 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #18
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
SkizeR's Avatar
 
Prisoner
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 17,283

12V Company:
Apicella Auto Sound
Position:
Janitor

Thanks: 1,109
Thanked 1,736 Times in 1,208 Posts
Rep Power: 454 SkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (42)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

did my post and the OP's reply get deleted?

SkizeR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #19
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Dan750iL's Avatar
 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Maryland
Age: 53
Posts: 417

Thanks: 31
Thanked 91 Times in 73 Posts
Rep Power: 51 Dan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (9)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

I was just about to ask the same thing.

The board has been acting up a little today.
Dan750iL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #20
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
SkizeR's Avatar
 
Prisoner
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 17,283

12V Company:
Apicella Auto Sound
Position:
Janitor

Thanks: 1,109
Thanked 1,736 Times in 1,208 Posts
Rep Power: 454 SkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (42)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

well, i guess i'll do my best to remember what i said and repost it.

to anyone saying not to bother with rear fill, i highly suggest trying to find someone with a PROPER rear fill setup and taking a listen. little do many know, that some of the top scoring cars also use rear fill. it absolutely does not interfere with stereo imaging and also helps enlarge the soundstage if done right. that said, the twk isnt capable of doing proper rear fill

SkizeR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #21
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Dan750iL's Avatar
 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Maryland
Age: 53
Posts: 417

Thanks: 31
Thanked 91 Times in 73 Posts
Rep Power: 51 Dan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enoughDan750iL will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (9)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Following suit...

I've pretty much decided to do just the front in the truck at this point anyway.

I saw a thread recently on how to set rear fill up on a DSP. I will be going that route when I set my car up. I'm using a DSP Pro on it.
Dan750iL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #22
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,546

Thanks: 569
Thanked 214 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 327 I800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
well, i guess i'll do my best to remember what i said and repost it.

to anyone saying not to bother with rear fill, i highly suggest trying to find someone with a PROPER rear fill setup and taking a listen. little do many know, that some of the top scoring cars also use rear fill. it absolutely does not interfere with stereo imaging and also helps enlarge the soundstage if done right. that said, the twk isnt capable of doing proper rear fill
*LIKE*

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
My '13 Jetta build...not finished
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #23
Moderator
 
Bikinpunk
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North Alabama
Age: 36
Posts: 18,263

Thanks: 366
Thanked 1,336 Times in 610 Posts
Rep Power: 26021 ErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond repute

Send a message via AIM to ErinH

iTrader: (100)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
it absolutely does not interfere with stereo imaging ... if done right.

that said, the twk isnt capable of doing proper rear fill
*channeling my inner Oscar here*

Actually, both of these statements are incorrect.

Differential rear fill will interfere with the imaging depending on the track. How it's set up plays a large role in this so in some cases the negative impact can be tolerable, but they're still present. For example, if you have music with hard panned information that can often be played dead in the center behind you which hurts the soundstage.

L + (L - R) + R + (R - L) = L + L - R + R + R - L = 2L - R + 2R - L = L + R

L+R is summed mono.

The "if done right" part makes things tricky. So, let's say you attenuate the signal enough to where the above doesn't really bother you. Now you've attenuated it so much that when it would provide the benefits we know of, they won't actually be audible.

I've experienced this with a lot of my music since I like a lot of music that has hard panned information. It's just one of those things you have to understand and decide if the benefit (potential enhanced soundstage size) outweighs the negatives (soundstage size can collapse).




The twk88 can do differential rear fill. A friend of mine told me how to set it up. I did and can verify it works.




Edit: FWIW, I'm not seeing any posts in this thread having been moderated so it must be something with the site today.

Time Delay Calculator:
http://tracerite.com/calc.html
ErinH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #24
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
SkizeR's Avatar
 
Prisoner
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 17,283

12V Company:
Apicella Auto Sound
Position:
Janitor

Thanks: 1,109
Thanked 1,736 Times in 1,208 Posts
Rep Power: 454 SkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond reputeSkizeR has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (42)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
*channeling my inner Oscar here*

Actually, both of these statements are incorrect.

Differential rear fill will interfere with the imaging depending on the track. How it's set up plays a large role in this so in some cases the negative impact can be tolerable, but they're still present. For example, if you have music with hard panned information that can often be played dead in the center behind you which hurts the soundstage.

L + (L - R) + R + (R - L) = L + L - R + R + R - L = 2L - R + 2R - L = L + R

L+R is summed mono.

The "if done right" part makes things tricky. So, let's say you attenuate the signal enough to where the above doesn't really bother you. Now you've attenuated it so much that when it would provide the benefits we know of, they won't actually be audible.

I've experienced this with a lot of my music since I like a lot of music that has hard panned information. It's just one of those things you have to understand and decide if the benefit (potential enhanced soundstage size) outweighs the negatives (soundstage size can collapse).




The twk88 can do differential rear fill. A friend of mine told me how to set it up. I did and can verify it works.




Edit: FWIW, I'm not seeing any posts in this thread having been moderated so it must be something with the site today.
how exactly do you do it on the twk?

SkizeR is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2017   #25
DIYMA 500 Club
 
I800C0LLECT's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VA
Age: 37
Posts: 2,546

Thanks: 569
Thanked 214 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 327 I800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond reputeI800C0LLECT has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: To rear fill or not to rear fill?

Glad you spit that out. I felt like some recordings were extreme mono when I could have sworn they weren't


Edit: it was still great for a lot of music. Just don't care about it right now

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Don't mistake activity for accomplishment.
My '13 Jetta build...not finished
I800C0LLECT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
First name
Last name
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Youtube Channel
Enter Your Youtube Username, And It will Be Linked To In Your Posts!
12V Industry - Company Name
Your company name.
12V Industry - Your Position
Your position in your company.

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Ad Management by RedTyger

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy