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Old 07-16-2019   #76
 
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

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Originally Posted by tyroneshoes View Post
Nice interesting post. Im doing something very similar and Ive been through about 25 amps or so comparisons, except for using the on axis bookshelves full range, I also try each amp on a sub.

I will say that I also grabbed the Zapco Studio 2x SQ from world wide for $65 as well. I was also somewhat underwhelmed by this amp as well. The amp I was comparing to a/b was a zapco studio 100 from 93 so it was very similar power. It was fine, but no where as clear and detailed as the older zapco, or the new full range class d amps from zapco. It was very easy to swap my into my car playing tweeters from 2.5 up and it was not as nice as the old zapco studio 100 so I am not using it and put the old studio back in.

The 4 channel st-402 sq class d sounds as good as my favorite amps and superior to the a/b sq amplifier to me and the others Ive tried. However, its not a bad amp, just not outstanding.

I will eventually get back to posting and write down all the notes on the various amps Ive tried. I will briefly share my favorite amps I have a/b tested on full range high end booksheves and the JL cp108 micro sub which is my testing sub I also listen to in tests. So typically 2.1 but if the amp is a 2 channel, I run it full range for a few work days, then move it to the sub and put another 2 channel on the full range bookshelves.

The pioneer d8604 was a fine amplifier as well and great deals. Most amps dont sound significantly different and if theres nothing remarkable, I didnt mention it. I have lots of amps around and tried many over the past 3 years I have been testing these while working.

I think now the Full range class d's from Both Kenwood and Pioneer are great budget choices and sound very similar to amps costing lots more. The pioneer, kenwood, and polk audio PA20002 all got the same score on full range. Same score as the Arc XDI.

I prefer Kenwood to pioneer regarding full range class D (treble response) but I would say they are very similar in "SQ" to the Zapco Studio SQ a/b series. Just 60 watts can run ut of steam fast if not on mid/tweeters. Zapcos F/R class d's sound much more enjoyable to me than the less expensive a/b SQs.

My personal preference is class a/b on the tweeters as I get an "airy" type feeling with good ones.

Overall, Id say all amps do sound different but it is very small differences between them. I agree with major differences are the pots used, rcas used and cosmetics when dealing with respectable companies.

Id love to see what you think about comparing the current Kenwoods class d f/r to the Pioneer.

The fact that you can get 1000+ watts 5 channels from both companies under 200 now is unreal.
tyroneshoes,

Iím sorry I did read your post and then completely forgot to reply. Thank you for sharing your commentary and itís interesting to read about your findings on those Zapco and Kenwood amplifiers. I remember I had a real cheap 2 channel Kenwood back in the day and swapped it for that Alpine 3548 I used in my tests and was struck by the improvement in sound running a two way front stage. I then tried the same test but this time bridged driving a JL Audio microsub and the Alpine was noticeably more powerful sounding. I guess Kenwood has come a long way since those days.

I kind of want to do this again but this time get some DIYMA members involved and post their commentary. That might be interesting and of course it would have to be a blind test.

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Old 07-16-2019   #77
 
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

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Originally Posted by WinWiz View Post
Sorry for highjacking this thread...
I also have noise from my midwoofers (powered by one of my Pio 8604) It sounds kind of like faint pink noise. I generally only hear it when playback is paused and my engine is off. It started when I installed my Dayton dsp so I think the dsp is causing it. It irritates me, so tried new rca cables, rerouting the cables and grounding dsp and headunit, relocating the dsp -but it didn't help 😞
The Dayton dsp is known to cause noise when the bass remote is connected, but I don't have the remote. Maybe I should check if the pio amp powering my midwoofers is the one making the mobile phone noises...
Are you talking about the bluetooth noise floor? Does that pink noise remain when you aren't connected via bluetooth?

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Old 07-16-2019   #78
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

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Originally Posted by JCsAudio View Post
tyroneshoes,

Iím sorry I did read your post and then completely forgot to reply. Thank you for sharing your commentary and itís interesting to read about your findings on those Zapco and Kenwood amplifiers. I remember I had a real cheap 2 channel Kenwood back in the day and swapped it for that Alpine 3548 I used in my tests and was struck by the improvement in sound running a two way front stage. I then tried the same test but this time bridged driving a JL Audio microsub and the Alpine was noticeably more powerful sounding. I guess Kenwood has come a long way since those days.

I kind of want to do this again but this time get some DIYMA members involved and post their commentary. That might be interesting and of course it would have to be a blind test.
Yes, the current excelon full range class d amps are a far reach from the inexpensive kenwoods with the "1000" watts on it. Kenwood made in japan amps were amazing, then they fell off with the PS line. I swapped alpine pdx gen1 amps for the kenwood kac-x4r and x1r and it was like my a/b amps were back but with built in dsp. That x4r I will never sell. Still works perfect 10 years later.

Since then, Kenwood seems to be some of the best sounding class d's, on par with my zapco st-204d sq, Matts digital fr, Focal/Zed class ds, malaysian and Indonesian high end amps. and they managed to lessen the size and efficiency while using Nichon caps in some. And these amps are super under rated. The 5 channel kenwood prior to the "high res" snake oil was rated at 50x4 and 300x1 and give a constant 100x4 and 500x1. They also have an interesting dual sigma negative feedback circuit that seems to just make everything sound better. And you can get these amps for under $250. Well worth the extra 30 or so or less than the pioneer. The design shows lots of thought and fantastic build quality. Like you would expect from an Italian manufacturer or a very high end esoteric name.

I suggest giving an excelon a try from the past 5 years. You will be impressed. The xr801-5 and the xr901-5 are fantastic 5 channel amps. Unfortunately, they did not add a bass knob untill recently but I always just use an inline rca potentiator. And the Marine version of xr801-5 is going for 225 new. Id take them over the pioneers any day. Theres a big d wiz comparing the kenwood and pioneers on the dyno. Its the full range channels that are actually more powerful than the pioneers on the kenwood and what make them superior, to me. The 4 channels are fantastic too but the 5 channels are some of the best high end class d 5 channels and incorporated the exact same 4 channels with a mono in same 11" chassis.

Two of these kenwood 5 channels can be bridged to a 3 channel for mid bass/midwoofers and a sub, and the second 5 channel can power tweeters /midrange or rear fill and a second sub, if needed (100x4+300x2+500x2) That is the best deal out now if you ask me. Plus they look slick.

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Last edited by tyroneshoes; 07-16-2019 at 11:23 PM..
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Old 07-16-2019   #79
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

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Originally Posted by jimmyjames16 View Post
Hey Tyrone.. I have to agree with you with the Kenwood Excelon class D's .. they sound incredible and if not better than the JL HD or Arc XDi amps I had prior.

I actually took your advice on these a few years back and didn't expect them to sound so good because they were first off a "Kenwood" .. and their lower price mark just seemed like another low grade amp that would either blow or sound crappy overall . That wasn't the case at all. The XR400-4 sounded a bit sharper and stronger than it's predecessor - the XR-4S .. it was a bit more cleaner and ballz-ier.

I would have stayed with that setup but Gordon was building my Compact Four Class A at the time and I could't wait to install and hear it. My JL HD just never sounded right and was very frustrating trying to dial it in correctly. The Arc Xdi did sound better .. but lacked some depth and instrumentals that I know were there but seemed to fade out in the distance.

The Excelon was right up there though.. I was even contemplating getting the XR401-4 just for shitz & giggles to check out the new Hi-Res features and compare it ot my Genesis sytem setup and see if it was all worth it by upgrading my alternator, batteries, etc.

Do you believe that the Zapco ST-204D SQ would be the best Class D F/R on the market today.. given your listening experience?
Glad to hear. Also dont like JL HD or the pdxs (PDR>PDX) and have had issues with arc since the class g/h and xdi (first gen). I think the jl xds are better personally but no better the excelons. I am a big fan of the JL slash amps however. Didnt try the rd yet.

The zapco st204d sq is a very nice amp, but I bypassed my typical listening process and put it right in my car. It sounds great but since I assess using full range bookshelves with tweeters, I couldnt give a fair assessment in my listening room/office. I do know they have TONS of clean power and power my 7" woofers and 10" without breaking a sweat with minimal gain, so I recommend them.

However, I bought it from WWS for 250 new as they listed it as a 2 channel. Now its $500. So you can get 100x8 + 500x2 using the excelons for the same price. So, I dont know if Id say its worth 500, but I dont think any car amp is unless your compete and have sponsors or it has built in dsp.

I did not try the other zapco micro digital line, this amp is 13" long but 1200 watts rms. Low ESR caps, and hardly any difference on my mids from my old studio 300x. Overall, 105 amps of fusing and 90% efficiency and audio caps..Its the most powerful reasonably sized zapco 4 channel ever and I have no complaints. Its mounted under seats so the only issue with the kenwoods in same location under seats was fan noise. No fan on the zapco. Great build quality and heavy. I put a gut pic of it in the hot deals WWS post.

I def recommend them. The only one I would swap for is the Focal Zed made 5 channel as I am very impressed by them too, love the cosmetics and pwer rating is perfect for my setup and see them going for under 300 on ebay at times. However, zeds have some reliability issues and both my previous zapcos were purchased by me and used for 25 years and my zapco studio 100 is still powering my tweeters. So I just have a brand preference for zapco. Im even using zapco/esb speakers.

Subaru Impreza - Pioneer MVH-1400NEX - Zapco Studio 100 - ESB DT 8.25 - Zapco ST-204D SQ - ESB 8.165 - Sundown SD3-10

Jeep Patriot - JBL MS8 - Alpine PDR-F50 - Kenwood KFC-XP6902C (6x9 + 2.75 wideband) - MB Quart P19 tweets - Alpine PDR-M65 - Boston Acoustics g5 10"

Last edited by tyroneshoes; 07-16-2019 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 07-16-2019   #80
 
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

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Originally Posted by tyroneshoes View Post
Glad to hear. Also dont like JL HD or the pdxs (PDR>PDX) and have had issues with arc since the class g/h and xdi (first gen). I think the jl xds are better personally but no better the excelons. I am a big fan of the JL slash amps however. Didnt try the rd yet.

The zapco st204d sq is a very nice amp, but I bypassed my typical listening process and put it right in my car. It sounds great but since I assess using full range bookshelves with tweeters, I couldnt give a fair assessment in my listening room/office. I do know they have TONS of clean power and power my 7" woofers and 10" without breaking a sweat with minimal gain, so I recommend them.

However, I bought it from WWS for 250 new as they listed it as a 2 channel. Now its $500. So you can get 100x8 + 500x2 using the excelons for the same price. So, I dont know if Id say its worth 500, but I dont think any car amp is unless your compete and have sponsors or it has built in dsp.

I did not try the other zapco micro digital line, this amp is 13" long but 1200 watts rms. Low ESR caps, and hardly any difference on my mids from my old studio 300x. Overall, 105 amps of fusing and 90% efficiency and audio caps..Its the most powerful reasonably sized zapco 4 channel ever and I have no complaints. Its mounted under seats so the only issue with the kenwoods in same location under seats was fan noise. No fan on the zapco. Great build quality and heavy. I put a gut pic of it in the hot deals WWS post.

I def recommend them. The only one I would swap for is the Focal Zed made 5 channel as I am very impressed by them too, love the cosmetics and pwer rating is perfect for my setup and see them going for under 300 on ebay at times. However, zeds have some reliability issues and both my previous zapcos were purchased by me and used for 25 years and my zapco studio 100 is still powering my tweeters. So I just have a brand preference for zapco. Im even using zapco/esb speakers.
Which sub/amp combo do you like better; your Subaru or jeep setup?
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Old 07-16-2019   #81
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

As far as sub, the jeep by far. The Boston g5 10" is in a vented enclosure getting 600+watts while the sundown sd3 10 sealed in .7 cuft getting the 550 from the zapco. The boston is also more efficient. Id be running the g5 10 if it would fit in the slim enclosure I have, but a SI BMV III 12 just showed up today that I plan to install in the sd3 10"s location as it will fit and Im all for more cone area.

I took a long drive today and while the SD3 10 is a fine sub, one 10 doesnt have the output I like (not far off though) and has a hard time keeping up with my front stage when louder. It just seems to plateau due to the underhung design but is a good sounding sub. If I had 2 of them, or even a 12" no problem. But the boston g5 is one of my favorite all time car subs and in 1.3cuft @32hz sounds amazing.

I didnt try to hook up the vented g5 to the zapco but Im sure the difference between the PDR mono and bridged zapco amps would be very small. It really needs no more that 450-500 watts.

So Im replacing the sd3 10. first going to try the SI 12" that showed up today and I also have a BNIB Nakamichi 12 about 25 years old that is an amazing sounding sub as well that fits in the same enclosure as well. Just half the excursion of the SI, and 300 watts rms but buttery smooth subs those Naks. Also have an Alumapro RX SQ 12". So moving to a single 12. Off the zapco. All the above fit the enclosure and amp power

The Jeep is more of a work car that I swap stuff I have and try new things in. Has more room and Im less picky about perfection. Subaru is my SQ focused car.

If nothing provides the output I seek in the subaru, Ill just do some glassing and put the g5 and matching pr @ 30hz in the .5 they require and I would have more than I need. But effort

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Old 07-17-2019   #82
 
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

Thanks tyroneshoes, I will keep my eyes pealed for any of those Excelons, although I don't really need anymore amplifiers. In fact I think I need to sell some of these off as I have too many. As for monoblock amplifiers, the most impressive I have experienced so far would be a Rockford Fosgate Power 1500 class BD. I swapped that with an Infinity K1000 and noticed a difference right away with an SA12 subwoofer. It was probably attributable to the constant power design or maybe just more power overall but it impressed me. I wish you were closer as I'd love to hear some of those amps you have.

Thanks

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Old 07-18-2019   #83
 
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Are you talking about the bluetooth noise floor? Does that pink noise remain when you aren't connected via bluetooth?
I don't have the BT stick.
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Old 07-28-2019   #84
 
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

Update: the Pioneer D8604 seems to have an issue with channels 1 & 2. My tweeter levels were all over the place, sometimes cutting in and out and I thought it was a loose connection. I changed the RCA and all was good for a while but today after a long tuning session the tweeters started doing this again. Just before they were noticeably losing power (by ear) I was having trouble level matching them to the door woofers. First they were good, then they were too low, then I readjusted them and they were too high again. Seems to be related to how hot the amplifier was getting and the hotter it got, the worse it got. Measured 112 degrees on the amplifier with 95 degrees in the truck (hot day). I swapped it out for the DLS for now and finished the tuning and the tweeters are holding their levels now.

So weíll see what happens as it could be the DSP but I think not. If the problem doesnít come back than Iím going to blame the D8604 for what I call, you get what you pay for qaulity. Great sounding amplifier but the the qaulity of the components inside seem suspect to me. Could also just be a random case where I got unlucky. Iíll give it a few weeks and see what happens.

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Old 07-28-2019   #85
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

I wish I never sold my Kenwood x4r. So I have a question, do you guys believe the Kenwood excelon amps are better than the new pioneer gm-dx975 5 channel?
And I have a pioneer gm-x924 class A that I. Curious as to how it would stack up against the other amps you tested.

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Old 07-29-2019   #86
 
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

Funny, my brain must be playing tricks on me because I like the way my GB10 tweeters sounded with the Pioneer over the DLS. Just went through some songs on my 1 hour commute to work to come up with this opinion. Will have to play with the tune some more to make sure itís not that.

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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

I have the Kenwood XR900-5 and I really like it as well. I have it on my midranges, tweeters, and sub and it provides plenty of power and to my ears sounds very good. I had my mids and tweeters on a Alpine PDX F4 and I cant say I noticed hardly any difference in the sound. The only complaint I have with this model is the horrible screw heads for the speaker and power terminals. It is very easy to strip the heads so you have to be extremely careful with them. I had to send my first one back to Crutchfield because of this problem.
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Old 07-29-2019   #88
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

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I wish I never sold my Kenwood x4r. So I have a question, do you guys believe the Kenwood excelon amps are better than the new pioneer gm-dx975 5 channel?
And I have a pioneer gm-x924 class A that I. Curious as to how it would stack up against the other amps you tested.
Yes I prefer the Excelon to the pioneers. I know theres a limited pioneer version with updated caps but its $150 more and I have not heard it. Kenwood still uses Nichion.

That Pioneer gm-x924 is a class a/b but with class a bias...Great amp.

Subaru Impreza - Pioneer MVH-1400NEX - Zapco Studio 100 - ESB DT 8.25 - Zapco ST-204D SQ - ESB 8.165 - Sundown SD3-10

Jeep Patriot - JBL MS8 - Alpine PDR-F50 - Kenwood KFC-XP6902C (6x9 + 2.75 wideband) - MB Quart P19 tweets - Alpine PDR-M65 - Boston Acoustics g5 10"
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I've been arguing that Amps sound different for forever now. Most budget amps have an edginess that I find cant be tuned out. I mean yes you can tune it out but it will cost you clarity to do so.
I really loved my old Focal amps. They had a lush smooth sound and could be tuned bright without ever being harsh or brittle. I lost those to a flood and wound up with jl hd's. The hd's arent bad amps but they cannot deliver that ultra smooth top end I like . I've never owned anything of a higher tier than these 2 amps and that makes me curious just how good can amps get ? I liked the jl slash amps but had super limited dsp at the time. A p80 head unit with left and right 15 band was. I hated the Xd amps even with full dsp.
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

Yeah. I used to think it was all psycho-acoustics until I had the chance to a/b them indoors with high end speakers so its the exact environment and drivers on axis and no ambient noise. The tweeters on my ref speakers are vifa xt rings so they extend far past my audible range. Its very clear amps sound different, but the difference may not be significant for most to acknowledge or value.

there is a point of diminishing returns but if I can fit it, Im always going to prefer a/b on my full range speakers. Even the current Sony GS 4 channel is a small class a/b that sounds excellent. The Audio Designs ADS60.4 I have is very impressive.

Class D can sound as good as A/B,but not better than a well designed a/b amp...On this site the mosconi zeros are a good example of an a/b amp that will sound better than 90% of any amplifiers and all class d amps. But for me, old school zapcos. The zapco set below were my all time fav amps. Like someone else said...Oz Audio and zapco were magical together as was the focal Utopia and zapco studio 300x and 150s or the Z/Comp Zaps amp seen below .I went to an old school Directed pre sellout 5 channel to have an all in one chassis amp and the focals became brittle. Back in the zapcos. Story of my Car audio history. Aways chasing the Oz Audio/Zapco VW Scirroco system I had in the 90s.

I have a Malaysian Clarion/Addzest Pro Audio amp on the way to test.

Some pics of it. Also a/b with class a bias.
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Old 07-30-2019   #91
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

Ok I have a question, I recognize that Kenwood amps seems to have more cone control over woofers. I attribute that to damping factor and the sigma drive circuit. So my question is...what Kenwood amp or any amp is tour preferred amp of choice for powering a sub in a sq setup. Sub would be in a sealed enclosure. Basically past or present amp. I'm curious to what you guys think esp with Kenwood amps

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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

Manish, there is no proof that certain Kenwood amplifiers have better cone control over others. Everything in this thread including most of my information has mostly been subjective and anecdotal information. All we know is that not all amplifiers sound the same but we have no good data to back this up and show why that is. Furthermore the debate about damping factor has been beaten to death and if you really did through all the misinformation you should find that damping factor isnít really a factor with todayís amplifiers when you look at everything else that affects the speakerís cone control such as the actual mechanical suspension of the speaker itself.

Also, in my testing with the amplifiers in this price range I could not see class A/B having any advantage over Class D amplifiers. There is no measurable hard evidence that shows any of the class A/B amplifiers doing anything better than the class D amplifiers. Itís all anecdotal information here so itís not worth much other than we know not all amplifiers sound the same. I have to tell myself this all the time because my brain wants to believe all the anecdotal information on the internet is all true.

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Old 07-31-2019   #93
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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

Yeah I have read the same post here as well. But my in a few amps there seems to be a difference. I know I can definitely tell a difference between my Kenwood kac-1023 vs pretty much any other amp I have run including my old pg ms2.125 amps. Now between most class D amps, I agree 💯. But there is something to be said for a amp with a stout power supply. I guess I was too wordy but I was basically looking for what they felt was the best performing mono amp that didn't lose steam with extended low note passages.

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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

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Yeah I have read the same post here as well. But my in a few amps there seems to be a difference. I know I can definitely tell a difference between my Kenwood kac-1023 vs pretty much any other amp I have run including my old pg ms2.125 amps. Now between most class D amps, I agree 💯. But there is something to be said for a amp with a stout power supply. I guess I was too wordy but I was basically looking for what they felt was the best performing mono amp that didn't lose steam with extended low note passages.
Didn't realize you were talking monoblocks so in that case I 100% agree that a stout power supply definitely makes a difference. I can tell a difference too with my Rockford Fosgate Power bd1500 vs cheaper conventional amps.

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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

I agree with both the above posts. Except, I am pretty convinced that certain class ab amps will sound better on full range.

Now the Kenwood KAC-x1r Im selling is a very nice sounding mono amp that has dual power supplies. As far as the control aspect, kenwood has a dual sigma negative feedback circuit that seems to help, but not a major difference. And most quality amps do have a neg feedback circuit built in. The japanese OS Kenwood kac-1023 you have is just a fantastic amp overall. And Id be using it if you could.

In your sig, I see you have a Pioneer PRS-X720. Thats a fantastic amp. is that currently powering your subs? If so, I dont think youll get much of an improvement from swapping that, unless the current draw is too much.

Like JCSAudio I also am very fond of RF amplifiers on subs and I would run one of them if I was was given the option between the punch or power RF vs current kenwood excelon amps. I have never had an issue with the kenwood amps, but RF just makes very solid sub amps and they are tanks. So both of the subjective listeners agree there.

The current kenwoods excelons are solid, but not like the old Japanese versions. Those are some of my all time favorite amps

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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

So currently, I have a prs720, mtx2300x, Kenwood 1023, and a pair of pioneer gm-x922 amps. I have the amps and speakers listed in my signature but nothing Installed. As a matter of fact I sold one of the 15" subs. I haven't decided on which sub to run as I have a pair of pioneer ts-w12prs, infinity kappa 120.90, and that 1 rf T1 15". But I'm waiting on the new SI SQL-15 to drop unless I come across a JBL W15GTI. So yeah the 1023 is a option and so is the prs amp. Just unclear what I want to run for subs. And the RF 1500 is now on my radar if you guys think that is a superior amp to the ones I have already

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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

So if it's so obvious, how come no one ever claimed Richard Clark's $10k prize? Wasn't he the one who laid out the challenge to try to identify differences? Or was it cables and not amps? Been a few years... I might be misremembering.

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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

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So if it's so obvious, how come no one ever claimed Richard Clark's $10k prize? Wasn't he the one who laid out the challenge to try to identify differences? Or was it cables and not amps? Been a few years... I might be misremembering.
Funny because I just listened to the podcast with him on there yesterday, super interesting. It WAS amps by the way.
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Default

At the Bloomington SQ event last September Benny Z had everybody in suspense and never came through with the answer.

He said Richard Clarke has an ongoing proposition where if the listener can tell or guess which amplifier is playing he'll give that person $10,000 cash.

This intrigued me and I pushed Ben to tell us more but he told us we'd need to listen to the upcoming SQology podcast for further explanation.........well he never brought it up on the podcasts since that I know of......

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Default Re: My own Amplifier Sound Quality Shootout

Quote:
Originally Posted by JH1973 View Post
At the Bloomington SQ event last September Benny Z had everybody in suspense and never came through with the answer.

He said Richard Clarke has an ongoing proposition where if the listener can tell or guess which amplifier is playing he'll give that person $10,000 cash.

This intrigued me and I pushed Ben to tell us more but he told us we'd need to listen to the upcoming SQology podcast for further explanation.........well he never brought it up on the podcasts since that I know of......
Here you go:
SQOLOGY Car Audio Podcast
feat. Richard Clark - Autosound 2000
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