Is there really any point to upgrade amps? - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 05-23-2019   #1
 
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Default Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

I wanted to go from Mosconi to Sinfoni, but I'm not sure there is any point for the added cost of $1000. In my opinion an amp that is built with quality components and good topology will sound similar.

Everyone perceives sound differently after all.
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Old 05-23-2019   #2
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What are you hoping to improve? Power?

Anything you might gain in tonality would be easier gained with a proper DSP. Both of those are very quality amps, and even of you believe different amps have different sound signatures, you will have better results changing speakers out or utilizing a DSP.

The real question is what are you hoping to fix by switching amps, and then deciding if there is a more efficient way to do the same thing.

Now if you have the disposable income and want to try them, I say go for it. Bit I wouldn't expect anything drastic.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fischman View Post
What are you hoping to improve? Power?

Anything you might gain in tonality would be easier gained with a proper DSP. Both of those are very quality amps, and even of you believe different amps have different sound signatures, you will have better results changing speakers out or utilizing a DSP.

The real question is what are you hoping to fix by switching amps, and then deciding if there is a more efficient way to do the same thing.

Now if you have the disposable income and want to try them, I say go for it. Bit I wouldn't expect anything drastic.

Josh
Hi, I don't need more power, I was looking for a more compact ab amp with better noise floor and thd. The mosconi has a snr rating of 77 at 4ohm @ 1 watt with 1% thd.
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Old 05-23-2019   #4
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Default Re: Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

If you have the disposable income then go for it. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. You have nice amps already.

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Old 05-23-2019   #5
 
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Default Re: Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

Curious to hear others' thoughts as well! I imagine there's a pretty sharp rise of diminishing returns past a certain point so what is that point? I thought my $200 amps were expensive already, but then I saw Mosconi and other amps make my amp look so cheap.

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Default Re: Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

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Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50 View Post
Curious to hear others' thoughts as well! I imagine there's a pretty sharp rise of diminishing returns past a certain point so what is that point? I thought my $200 amps were expensive already, but then I saw Mosconi and other amps make my amp look so cheap.
While I haven't run any amps with a price tag over $1000 retail the best sounding amps I've used at any price point each cost less than $200 to my door brand new from a Zapco hookup I used to have before Aurigan picked them up. One was an ST-5x ii and the other the ST-4X sq I still own. On my mids and tweets I think the Zapco sq amp had a smoother sound but the Helix G-Five seems to be more detailed. Which amp I think sounds better depends on the day of the week. The Zapco might just have more pleasurable distortion.

So what am I trying to say here? There will be differences in how amps sound and some of those differences can't be tuned out with an EQ. I had one VERY respected multi-channel amp that happened to be class d and I instantly knew I screwed up buying it. Had a rounded off signature that couldn't be tuned out. The only person that can decide if an amp sounds good to them is the person using it. Otherwise you're just going by opinions from people who there's a good chance they've never even had their hands on the amp(s) in question. For what it's worth you'll never see me compare products subjectively unless I have enough personal experience with said products to do more than just blow a blind opinion out my ass

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Old 05-23-2019   #7
 
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Default Re: Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
While I haven't run any amps with a price tag over $1000 retail the best sounding amps I've used at any price point each cost less than $200 to my door brand new from a Zapco hookup I used to have before Aurigan picked them up. One was an ST-5x ii and the other the ST-4X sq I still own. On my mids and tweets I think the Zapco sq amp had a smoother sound but the Helix G-Five seems to be more detailed. Which amp I think sounds better depends on the day of the week. The Zapco might just have more pleasurable distortion.

So what am I trying to say here? There will be differences in how amps sound and some of those differences can't be tuned out with an EQ. I had one VERY respected multi-channel amp that happened to be class d and I instantly knew I screwed up buying it. Had a rounded off signature that couldn't be tuned out. The only person that can decide if an amp sounds good to them is the person using it. Otherwise you're just going by opinions from people who there's a good chance they've never even had their hands on the amp(s) in question. For what it's worth you'll never see me compare products subjectively unless I have enough personal experience with said products to do more than just blow a blind opinion out my ass
Haha yea, that's kinda the mindset I have. I won't know what I'm missing out on if I never experience it :P And sound is just way too subjective that makes it difficult to compare. I just wasn't sure if there's actually like clear differences between grades of amps. Like with studio monitors I definitely feel the basis KRK Rokits just aren't as clear as say Yamaha HS, and then you can step up to even more expensive stuff (at diminishing returns). Also w/ guitar amps, your tubes would really impact the tone, but it doesn't seem like that effect is as prominent with car amps.

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Old 05-23-2019   #8
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Default Re: Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

Swapping amps is a terrible way of tuning a system. The difference between a middle of the road amp, and a high end amp (assuming both a good quality) is very minimal at best. A couple changes to the EQ will have a bigger impact than the difference between most amps.
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Old 05-23-2019   #9
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Default Re: Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

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Originally Posted by SlvrDragon50 View Post
Haha yea, that's kinda the mindset I have. I won't know what I'm missing out on if I never experience it :P And sound is just way too subjective that makes it difficult to compare. I just wasn't sure if there's actually like clear differences between grades of amps. Like with studio monitors I definitely feel the basis KRK Rokits just aren't as clear as say Yamaha HS, and then you can step up to even more expensive stuff (at diminishing returns). Also w/ guitar amps, your tubes would really impact the tone, but it doesn't seem like that effect is as prominent with car amps.
Yeah with amps you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns. A fullrange D amp seems to be a lot easier to not get quite right on the design too when a company is trying to meet a VERY low price point. While I gave the Soundstream Picasso Nano 4ch a good review on here I did so knowing it was a VERY inexpensive and compact class D amp. If I would have paid $300 or more for this amp (paid $80 shipped brand new) I woulda been beyond pissed at how it sounded but for the price point it performed quite well to my ears. Once you get into amps that are designed well and made with quality parts the general opinion is that you're chasing fractions of a percent for improvement going beyond that and most of those improvements are purely subjective. No way would I put Genesis, Revelation, Sinfoni, Mosconi Zero, or any other ridiculously expensive amps in my single cab truck that will probably never compete (unless it's a one comp and done just for fun) while making a blue collar paycheck. I won't even go into my rant about people who go into big debt because they bought way above their raisin'.

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Old 05-23-2019   #10
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Default Re: Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

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Swapping amps is a terrible way of tuning a system. The difference between a middle of the road amp, and a high end amp (assuming both a good quality) is very minimal at best. A couple changes to the EQ will have a bigger impact than the difference between most amps.
This is very true as long as there isn't a signature (pleasurable distortion) designed into the circuitry of the amp to set it apart from amps that amplify what's given to them as accurately as possible and that's it.

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Old 05-23-2019   #11
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Default Re: Is there really any point to upgrade amps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
Yeah with amps you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns. A fullrange D amp seems to be a lot easier to not get quite right on the design too when a company is trying to meet a VERY low price point. While I gave the Soundstream Picasso Nano 4ch a good review on here I did so knowing it was a VERY inexpensive and compact class D amp. If I would have paid $300 or more for this amp (paid $80 shipped brand new) I woulda been beyond pissed at how it sounded but for the price point it performed quite well to my ears. Once you get into amps that are designed well and made with quality parts the general opinion is that you're chasing fractions of a percent for improvement going beyond that and most of those improvements are purely subjective. No way would I put Genesis, Revelation, Sinfoni, Mosconi Zero, or any other ridiculously expensive amps in my single cab truck that will probably never compete (unless it's a one comp and done just for fun) while making a blue collar paycheck. I won't even go into my rant about people who go into big debt because they bought way above their raisin'.
Very well said!
In fact, I'd change component speakers, DSP, sound deadening and maybe even head units before I would spend big bucks chasing a tonality upgrade with amps.
On the whole we're talking about tenths of a single percent difference in measureable characteristics between different brands/models. And at the end of it all who knows if you could even actually discern any difference with your ears?
BTW Hillbilly SQ, I picked up a couple of the PPI Ion amps (4 channel and a single monoblock) for less than $100 total in nearly new condition. They are the PPI versions of your SS PN series. Korean made and a real bargain for entry level or daily beater rides IMO.

Absolutely State Of The Art!
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