Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse? - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-30-2019   #1
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,810

Thanks: 90
Thanked 194 Times in 177 Posts
Rep Power: 58 dcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

I know it should not matter but with these particular woofers and the 3" baffle with only 5.5" depth i got to assume there is much more cone blockage than facing into the cabin.

Last edited by dcfis; 05-30-2019 at 08:23 PM..
dcfis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-30-2019   #2
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,198

Thanks: 91
Thanked 285 Times in 223 Posts
Rep Power: 96 Jscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfis View Post
I know it should not matter but with these particular woofers and the 3" baffle with only 5.5" depth i got to assume there is much more come blockage than facing into the cabin.

20ft + long wavelengths. It has zero effect which way you face it.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Jscoyne2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Jscoyne2 For This Useful Post:
dcfis (05-30-2019)
Old 05-30-2019   #3
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,810

Thanks: 90
Thanked 194 Times in 177 Posts
Rep Power: 58 dcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

I agree 💯 but just shy to do it as it can't be reversed
dcfis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-30-2019   #4
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,198

Thanks: 91
Thanked 285 Times in 223 Posts
Rep Power: 96 Jscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfis View Post
I agree but just shy to do it as it can't be reversed
My IB is reversed.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Jscoyne2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Jscoyne2 For This Useful Post:
dcfis (05-30-2019)
Old 05-30-2019   #5
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,810

Thanks: 90
Thanked 194 Times in 177 Posts
Rep Power: 58 dcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Thanks man, i think I'm going that way too
dcfis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2019   #6
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: atlanta
Posts: 1,124

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 189 mitchyz250f will become famous soon enoughmitchyz250f will become famous soon enoughmitchyz250f will become famous soon enoughmitchyz250f will become famous soon enoughmitchyz250f will become famous soon enoughmitchyz250f will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (13)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

I reversed my 15" sub reverse with the magnet poking into the car. I built a 'pyramid shaped grill' over it out over expanded metal and wood and then covered every with subwoofer cloth. No one ever noticed it. That way the trunk space is not compromised in anyway. If I had to do it again I would do it the same way.
mitchyz250f is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2019   #7
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,198

Thanks: 91
Thanked 285 Times in 223 Posts
Rep Power: 96 Jscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfis View Post
Thanks man, i think I'm going that way too
Clears the seat when up too.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Jscoyne2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2019   #8
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Niebur3's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In car audio land
Posts: 3,315

12V Company:
High Definition Mobile Audio
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 136
Thanked 264 Times in 182 Posts
Rep Power: 340 Niebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (51)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Isn't there a possibility of some motor noise with being reversed if your seats are down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
There is a difference between overkill and bad. Your idea isn't overkill, it's bad.
Niebur3 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2019   #9
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,198

Thanks: 91
Thanked 285 Times in 223 Posts
Rep Power: 96 Jscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niebur3 View Post
Isn't there a possibility of some motor noise with being reversed if your seats are down?
I mean seats up is a little scary tbh haha. Like a trunk monkey trying to get out but the only motor noise I've noticed is at very high excursion and at that point..does it really matter?

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Jscoyne2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2019   #10
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Niebur3's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In car audio land
Posts: 3,315

12V Company:
High Definition Mobile Audio
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 136
Thanked 264 Times in 182 Posts
Rep Power: 340 Niebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (51)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

^^^Not in the slightest....lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
There is a difference between overkill and bad. Your idea isn't overkill, it's bad.
Niebur3 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2019   #11
 
Chris12's Avatar
 
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: SF Bay Area
Age: 100
Posts: 524

Thanks: 781
Thanked 208 Times in 135 Posts
Rep Power: 21 Chris12 will become famous soon enoughChris12 will become famous soon enoughChris12 will become famous soon enoughChris12 will become famous soon enoughChris12 will become famous soon enoughChris12 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Iíve got my IB sub with the magnet facing the front of the car and Iím very happy with it. Iíve been playing it for the past week without my rear seat backs installed and I havenít caught a hint of motor noise. Like the others, my motivation for setting it up this way was to maximize trunk space.

DDX9905s HU | MiniDSP | JL XD Amps | AE SBP15
Scan Be 3004-604010 | Esotar≤ 430 | JL ZR800
Chris12 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-31-2019   #12
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego
Age: 56
Posts: 5,966

Thanks: 1
Thanked 123 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 228 Patrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nice


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?



If you reverse one, and not the other, it reduces distortion.

Be sure to reverse the wiring on the woofer that's inverted, so that both drivers are in-phase.


In principle it would be quite simple to waste the surplus labour of the world by building temples and pyramids, by digging holes and filling them up again, or even by producing vast quantities of goods and then setting fire to them. (Orwell)
Patrick Bateman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-31-2019   #13
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,198

Thanks: 91
Thanked 285 Times in 223 Posts
Rep Power: 96 Jscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post




If you reverse one, and not the other, it reduces distortion.



Be sure to reverse the wiring on the woofer that's inverted, so that both drivers are in-phase.



Um. Proof?

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Jscoyne2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-31-2019   #14
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Niebur3's Avatar
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In car audio land
Posts: 3,315

12V Company:
High Definition Mobile Audio
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 136
Thanked 264 Times in 182 Posts
Rep Power: 340 Niebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond reputeNiebur3 has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (51)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post


If you reverse one, and not the other, it reduces distortion.

Be sure to reverse the wiring on the woofer that's inverted, so that both drivers are in-phase.

That would seem to waste a lot of space. Although I guess you could make your baffle shaped like this:
HTML Code:
|
|
|
|_______
        |
        |
        |
        |
In which that might actually be pretty darn cool. Hmmmmmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
There is a difference between overkill and bad. Your idea isn't overkill, it's bad.

Last edited by Niebur3; 05-31-2019 at 09:04 PM..
Niebur3 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-31-2019   #15
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
AyOne's Avatar
 
Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: In the pines
Posts: 483

Thanks: 98
Thanked 70 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 44 AyOne will become famous soon enoughAyOne will become famous soon enoughAyOne will become famous soon enoughAyOne will become famous soon enoughAyOne will become famous soon enoughAyOne will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Iíd put the side you want to see the most where youíd see it the most

AyOne is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-31-2019   #16
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,810

Thanks: 90
Thanked 194 Times in 177 Posts
Rep Power: 58 dcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
Clears the seat when up too.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Fi? Thanks so much for the help guys
dcfis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-31-2019   #17
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,198

Thanks: 91
Thanked 285 Times in 223 Posts
Rep Power: 96 Jscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura aboutJscoyne2 has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfis View Post
Fi? Thanks so much for the help guys
Yup. Fi ib3 15. Ive got a build log of just the sub stage. You can find in my started threads

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Jscoyne2 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2019   #18
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 1,325

12V Company:
Stevens Audio
Position:
Founder

Thanks: 7
Thanked 115 Times in 76 Posts
Rep Power: 163 Eric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the roughEric Stevens is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Having the subwoofers in opposite orientation on the baffle does lower distortion, any non linearities aka "distortion" will cancel.
Eric Stevens is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Eric Stevens For This Useful Post:
Niebur3 (06-02-2019)
Old 06-02-2019   #19
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: the netherlands
Posts: 251

Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 113 tonny will become famous soon enoughtonny will become famous soon enoughtonny will become famous soon enoughtonny will become famous soon enoughtonny will become famous soon enoughtonny will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

In that area you will have probably more distortion from the car then from the speakers it self...
tonny is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019   #20
 
Newbie
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Philly
Posts: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 robjamell will become famous soon enoughrobjamell will become famous soon enoughrobjamell will become famous soon enoughrobjamell will become famous soon enoughrobjamell will become famous soon enoughrobjamell will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

The rear of many drivers is noisier due to exposing the motor structure. In turn, if your driver is close to ear shot, that can be a problem in some circumstances. Some driver's motors are just nosier than others.
robjamell is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019   #21
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,810

Thanks: 90
Thanked 194 Times in 177 Posts
Rep Power: 58 dcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Well I'm really sick of saw dust. Things are coming along but way slower and with little problems here and there. Like always.

Hopefully it's worth it
[/IMG]
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190605_113732.jpg (777.2 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 20190605_111337.jpg (1,021.2 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by dcfis; 06-05-2019 at 02:41 PM..
dcfis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019   #22
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,810

Thanks: 90
Thanked 194 Times in 177 Posts
Rep Power: 58 dcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enoughdcfis will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Pics aren't showing for me
dcfis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-05-2019   #23
 
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland
Posts: 2

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 drphilb will become famous soon enoughdrphilb will become famous soon enoughdrphilb will become famous soon enoughdrphilb will become famous soon enoughdrphilb will become famous soon enoughdrphilb will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

I am doing an IB install on a 2013 Genesis ,2 HAT 15's and so I built it out with 2 rings for the screw plates and then 4 rings attached to the board all 3/4" . All together (7) 3/4 boards. this puts the woofer back about 4.5 inches from the baffle board.

The main objective is to ensure that you know the MAX extension so it does not hit any metal or object to interfere with the movement of the cone and also that you seal the front of the cab to the rear of the cab.

You want the front wave in the cab and the rear wave venting out the truck if all possible
drphilb is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-07-2019   #24
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego
Age: 56
Posts: 5,966

Thanks: 1
Thanked 123 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 228 Patrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nice


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
Um. Proof?

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


In this example, second harmonic distortion is reduced by nearly 90% and fourth harmonic is reduced by about 50%

Note that 3rd and 5th are untouched, because push-pull has no effect on odd-order distortion.

Push-pull is a no-brainer, unless you enjoy the sound of distortion. Which is perfectly reasonable, distortion *can* sound good.

My home subs are TC Sounds 15" in a push-pull bandpass. I sometime can't tell if they're on, they're REALLY clean.

from here: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...-compared.html


Calculating distortion percentages is a headache by the way. According to my calculator, the 2nd harmonic in the conventional subwoofer is 25%, and in the push pull it's 3%, a reduction in distortion of 88%

One of the interesting things about subwoofers is that the harmonic distortion can sound louder than the fundamental, because subwoofers produce so much damn distortion, and our hearing mechanism is much more sensitive at high frequencies than low. So when your sub plays 60hz, the 2nd harmonic at 120hz may be more audible.

And note that your crossover makes no difference; it doesn't reduce distortion, it simply filters out the fundamental.

Calculator here: THD to dB - convert percent % to decibels dB percentage voltage % vs per cent converter THD+N total harmonic distortions calculation signal distortion factor attenuation in dB to distortion factor k in percent decibel damping - sengpielaudio Sengpiel


In principle it would be quite simple to waste the surplus labour of the world by building temples and pyramids, by digging holes and filling them up again, or even by producing vast quantities of goods and then setting fire to them. (Orwell)

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 06-07-2019 at 08:50 PM..
Patrick Bateman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Patrick Bateman For This Useful Post:
dcfis (06-07-2019)
Old 06-07-2019   #25
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego
Age: 56
Posts: 5,966

Thanks: 1
Thanked 123 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 228 Patrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nicePatrick Bateman is just really nice


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: Redoing IB install, woofers forward or reverse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niebur3 View Post
That would seem to waste a lot of space. Although I guess you could make your baffle shaped like this:
HTML Code:
|
|
|
|_______
        |
        |
        |
        |
In which that might actually be pretty darn cool. Hmmmmmmm
Like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=w+frame+subwoofer


In principle it would be quite simple to waste the surplus labour of the world by building temples and pyramids, by digging holes and filling them up again, or even by producing vast quantities of goods and then setting fire to them. (Orwell)
Patrick Bateman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Ad Management by RedTyger

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy