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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #326
 
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
Weren't you just saying that having correction at 20hz is huge amount of processing and could take up all the processing power?

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A high pass filter at 20hz on sub almost and nothing else could.
I would have to loopback the Dirac sweep from rew to see how it handles such a thing, it may not even try.


But if a 20hz HPF was on everything, thatís different. They all share the same shift now. So it really wouldnít need much of anything to sound good.

OTOH to linearize a 20hz HPF would possibly take over 10,000 taps at 48k per channel. So I doubt it would try,

TLDR : donít use a 20hz HPF on sub alone.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #327
 
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Sometimes Iíll ask my kids a question and get completely ignored.........


talking crypticly


having a shit day . thatís so.......never mind Iím ranting again
Ignore this

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #328
 
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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Sometimes Iíll ask my kids a question and get completely ignored.........





talking crypticly





having a shit day . thatís so.......never mind Iím ranting again

Ignore this
Heres some memes buddy

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #329
 
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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Heres some memes buddy

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Okay! You made my day Iím happy again.

Yesterday was dumb my apologies.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #330
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
I had to tame the high peaks in rew for my midbass, in order to get clean output without clipping.
It's definitely a bit of trial and error to get the outputs right without either clipping or being too low, especially as what works fine for 1 microphone position might be no good for another.

I am sort of thinking today of trying to use PEQ to minimize a huge dip I get at 400Hz before running Dirac. As it is, I have to lower the entire target curve by a good (IIRC) 10dB in order to have it below the dip. Wondering if I can work on that via PEQ initially, then run Dirac if it will not cut so much of my overall output.

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Sometimes Iíll ask my kids a question and get completely ignored.........
Many times I liken asking my children a question to talking to a wall, door, umbrella... really any inanimate object as I get the same (complete lack of) response.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #331
 
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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It's definitely a bit of trial and error to get the outputs right without either clipping or being too low, especially as what works fine for 1 microphone position might be no good for another.



I am sort of thinking today of trying to use PEQ to minimize a huge dip I get at 400Hz before running Dirac. As it is, I have to lower the entire target curve by a good (IIRC) 10dB in order to have it below the dip. Wondering if I can work on that via PEQ initially, then run Dirac if it will not cut so much of my overall output.







Many times I liken asking my children a question to talking to a wall, door, umbrella... really any inanimate object as I get the same (complete lack of) response.
I mean boosting a dip via peq or dirac is going to be the same power consumption wise. If it's vehicle oriented, might as well just pull down the curve on Dirac. Oab is throwing out his experience and saying it might not be a super great idea but we're all still figuring Dirac out.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #332
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

I meant bringing everything around the dip down via PEQ, then bringing the level of the midbass back up to that of the tweeters / mids and finally running Dirac. So, let's say overall after the PEQ my midbass is down 5dB compared to everything else, I would then use the output sliders (in the plug in) to bring the midbass back up 5dB.

Ideally then giving me a higher overall level to the target curve as I am not pulling it (and everything else) down to meet that dip. No idea if it would work properly, but might be worth a try at least. Certainly can't hurt anything.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #333
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
A high pass filter at 20hz on sub almost and nothing else could.
I would have to loopback the Dirac sweep from rew to see how it handles such a thing, it may not even try.


But if a 20hz HPF was on everything, thatís different. They all share the same shift now. So it really wouldnít need much of anything to sound good.

OTOH to linearize a 20hz HPF would possibly take over 10,000 taps at 48k per channel. So I doubt it would try,

TLDR : donít use a 20hz HPF on sub alone.
The best way would be to process the sub at something like 512 or 1k sample rate. 44.1k or 96 is a bit of overkill when Shannon and Nyquist sort out that to bed back in the day.
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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I meant bringing everything around the dip down via PEQ, then bringing the level of the midbass back up to that of the tweeters / mids and finally running Dirac. So, let's say overall after the PEQ my midbass is down 5dB compared to everything else, I would then use the output sliders (in the plug in) to bring the midbass back up 5dB.

Ideally then giving me a higher overall level to the target curve as I am not pulling it (and everything else) down to meet that dip. No idea if it would work properly, but might be worth a try at least. Certainly can't hurt anything.
Lurking in here because I'm interested in installing this unit...

This comment is confusing (I'm a beginner, so bare with me), from what I've read, you can't or shouldn't boost through a room mode. By the sounds of what you are describing, you would be doing exactly that? Sounds like you are implying you can fix the null, and the level for free and not hurt anything. Wouldn't you be clipping on the frequency where the null is?

Asking because I have giant 10db nulls and not a lot of headroom. I doubt Dirac is a magic bullet for that?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #335
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Default Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

My plan is to try the following:

1. Measure each speaker with the mic up close to the cone and EQ approximately flat with parametric EQ in the plugin. This will be correcting the speakers not the room.

2. Set delays and crossovers in the plugin.

3. Run Dirac in 2 channels to correct the room and linearize the phase response.



Not sure when I will get around to trying it. I hate tuning my car so I rarely ever make time to mess with it.


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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #336
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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I hate tuning my car so I rarely ever make time to mess with it.
No doubt tuning is my least favorite part of this hobby too.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #337
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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By the sounds of what you are describing, you would be doing exactly that? Sounds like you are implying you can fix the null, and the level for free and not hurt anything. Wouldn't you be clipping on the frequency where the null is?
It's not really fixing it for free, in that I would be lowering everything around the null so that it's not such a large dip. I can then via the plug in increase the output of that channel to compensate. Let's say overall I pull down the frequencies before and after the null by 5dB to flatten it out some. I can then increase the output slider on that channel by 5dB to bring the overall output back up. So I'm not actually boosting any frequencies at all, but cutting individual frequencies and then increasing overall output.

Honestly, I have no idea if it will work or if it's even the best method. But, unless I do something really stupid, the only thing I lose is some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
My plan is to try the following:

1. Measure each speaker with the mic up close to the cone and EQ approximately flat with parametric EQ in the plugin. This will be correcting the speakers not the room.

2. Set delays and crossovers in the plugin.

3. Run Dirac in 2 channels to correct the room and linearize the phase response.



Not sure when I will get around to trying it. I hate tuning my car so I rarely ever make time to mess with it.
I might try this sometime between now and Thursday, ideally tomorrow but playing catch up at work, so might not get around to it.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #338
 
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitshifted View Post
Lurking in here because I'm interested in installing this unit...

This comment is confusing (I'm a beginner, so bare with me), from what I've read, you can't or shouldn't boost through a room mode. By the sounds of what you are describing, you would be doing exactly that? Sounds like you are implying you can fix the null, and the level for free and not hurt anything. Wouldn't you be clipping on the frequency where the null is?

Asking because I have giant 10db nulls and not a lot of headroom. I doubt Dirac is a magic bullet for that?


If you have a null in multiple positions it is fixable in the time domain,
It shifts the phase of the system to repair such issues, it will ignore deep nulls that are specific to location and it also ignores nulls caused by combfilters caused by left and right interaction (Dirac 2.0 addresses that, something to look forward to)

It will boost some as well , but you can control the amount depending if your trying to squeak every last drop of volume out of your system or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
My plan is to try the following:

1. Measure each speaker with the mic up close to the cone and EQ approximately flat with parametric EQ in the plugin. This will be correcting the speakers not the room.

2. Set delays and crossovers in the plugin.

3. Run Dirac in 2 channels to correct the room and linearize the phase response.



Not sure when I will get around to trying it. I hate tuning my car so I rarely ever make time to mess with it.


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Thatís exactly how I did it when I had speakers that werenít flat naturally
And thatís exactly how I do my horns.


I did a LOT of things to get my drivers to play flat on there own.
But that was a year of trying and building and it paid off.


Guys subterFUSE is correct , and I love the way this dood thinks. Smart man.
His responses are educated and intelligent.


Use peq to fix the speaker and use Dirac to fix the room. Thatís actually how it was designed and I think the manual sorta in other words explains that


Quote:
Originally Posted by naiku View Post
It's definitely a bit of trial and error to get the outputs right without either clipping or being too low, especially as what works fine for 1 microphone position might be no good for another.

I am sort of thinking today of trying to use PEQ to minimize a huge dip I get at 400Hz before running Dirac. As it is, I have to lower the entire target curve by a good (IIRC) 10dB in order to have it below the dip. Wondering if I can work on that via PEQ initially, then run Dirac if it will not cut so much of my overall output.



Many times I liken asking my children a question to talking to a wall, door, umbrella... really any inanimate object as I get the same (complete lack of) response.

Yeah they (and the wife) like completely forgot about Fatherís Day, I had a whole bunch of plans to go hiking and ........ ended up getting in a argument with the wife about onions. The stupidest day ever.
And of course I said nothing and just let it go as usual.
But weíre men! We suck it up and do it no matter what.
Thanks niaku!

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #339
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
If you have a null in multiple positions it is fixable in the time domain,
It shifts the phase of the system to repair such issues, it will ignore deep nulls that are specific to location and it also ignores nulls caused by combfilters caused by left and right interaction (Dirac 2.0 addresses that, something to look forward to)
....
Thanks niaku!
That is a pretty elegant solution... so it is essentially group delay on one Chanel where the nulls were formally at?


Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
...
Yeah they (and the wife) like completely forgot about Fatherís Day, I had a whole bunch of plans to go hiking and ........ ended up getting in a argument with the wife about onions. The stupidest day ever.
And of course I said nothing and just let it go as usual.
But weíre men! We suck it up and do it no matter what.
Thanks niaku!
I suppose it all ended in tears?
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Ooops loll

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #341
 
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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Originally Posted by Jscoyne2 View Post
Ooops loll

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Hahaha! You guys are brats! Lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmz View Post
That is a pretty elegant solution... so it is essentially group delay on one Chanel where the nulls were formally at?




I suppose it all ended in tears?

Tears , really???

Now that you ask. It was a river, the tears rolled down my chapped ass and cleansed my stinky whine ....hahaha




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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
1. Measure each speaker with the mic up close to the cone and EQ approximately flat with parametric EQ in the plugin. This will be correcting the speakers not the room.

2. Set delays and crossovers in the plugin.

3. Run Dirac in 2 channels to correct the room and linearize the phase response.
So, I gave this a quick try.... while it does sound good, for me everything is shifted way right. Could be a couple of things though, either that my delays I set are wrong (I found an old file with them written down, but could be wrong) or my microphone positioning was not ideal.

This was just using 5 Dirac channels, once I get this exactly how I want, then I will experiment again using 7. I want to try again with slightly different microphone positioning (and confirm my delay values) but it's every bit of 90F here today and humid. Sitting in a hot car in the garage with no A/C is utterly miserable.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #343
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Is there a way to get the delay values that Dirac comes up with so that we can try them out in the plugin?

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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

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Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
Is there a way to get the delay values that Dirac comes up with so that we can try them out in the plugin?
Yea it shows them in the dirac section of the plug in

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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Keep in mind that it will
Add delay to speaker that do not have excess group delay before convolution to align with a speaker that does have excess group delay. (Like a ported sub)
To save fir coefficients, and also , convolution by itself is a delay, and the delay could be used from the fir output against other channels , with the exception of 2ch Dirac. Meaning if one channel fir is 5.66ms and another channel is 6ms , guess what. So some of the delays may not make sense or seem like there right
And they may not be right for what you like. Itís delay structure is different than just actual distances , and so are the levels , you may see a left side turned down farther than right but it sounds even or quieter , there more going on that the numbers it outputs.

Also , convolution and any movement in phase can be seen as a delay (filters are casual)
Example, if you move phase at 200hz by 180deg itís like 1.6ms or close to (I made those numbers up from memory could be wrong but you get the idea)

So if itís moving only a certain amount of phase in one area of the magnitude that could the same thing as a full on delay from start to finish, depending on how the speaker is ďphasedĒ on measurements

So you just donít know!

The delays it adds are usually dam close. I would move the mic forward a tiny bit or back a tiny bit to move the center in combination with how close you get the mic to the left channel. Having the left side measurement points REALLY close to the speakers will lower the output on that channel , think about it. It averages all the responses between left and right, if one of the averages is high volume it will cut it.


In my post Dirac if I donít completely like where something is at , I start with levels and simply turn down levels on individual speaker in output in plugin not Dirac output , and move pairs of speaker up or down in delay , but keeping the delay apart the same ,

Example, freshly after Dirac if my midrange output is a 1ms for the Left and 1ms for the right than I would try moving Both to 1.25ms and listen than 1.5ms and listen
Or I may try going to .75 than .5 , and thatís why I start my Dirac with all speaker delays at 1ms so I can go down afterwards if I want one to go down starting all at zero only allows you to go up , if you did that than you would have to delay everything (all channels ) by 1ms so you could go down on one channel , I find it easier to start everything at 1ms than run Dirac

Do that to the mids or tweets or whatever and go back to the starting 1ms in my case and than try another pair of speakers like the midbass or tweets ,


Between levels and delays on outputs you should get it nailed down.
Again I donít add delay to a single speaker , just pairs, the Dirac delays it sets between pairs is usually spot fuckin on.

But only you know what a high and far back soundstage sounds like, moving the delays together and should raise/lower the stage and also change the phase a little at crossover frequencies if you have a harsh sounding crossover interaction and needs a tiny bit of delay to smooth it out on one side.

You can definitely try the invert button on pairs if you find the invert sounds better try re running Dirac with invert on.


Iíve run Dirac about 100x now with different combinations of starting delays and levels on outputs in plugin and now have a post Dirac tune that needs nothing
Itís perfect

Thereís lots of ways to skin the cat in the dsp


But also remember.
Your not trying to get your time alignment set to exact distances to make yourself feel better. Your trying to make your system sound kick ass.
Sometimes I get fought up on wanting something to measure a certain way or have the right amount of 1k or something and get lost on the basics of overall sound quality.

What is overall sound quality one might ask......ponder that one.

I would suggest it starts with not obsessing with settings in dsp being true or textbook ďcorrectĒ and do what sounds good. If moving your mids 2ms away from your tweets after your perfect impulse alignment sounds better than why the hell arenít you doing that? But more importantly why would it theoretically sound better is the bigger question.

A large deep soundstage is a recreation of something only your minds eye can extrapolate and your version of what is good may be what your actually after and this trying to adhere to textbook methods may be more damaging than it is good. What if hypothetically, you want your deep stage to sound like itís coming from outside the car how would you get there. Well for one you would have to break almost every rule in speaker alignment there is but you would get there.
Because of this. Sound is made up of phase , frequencies and amplitude (a transfer function). If you want the sound to sound like itís 30í away you have to create a transfer function that does that or 10í or 5í or just an extra foot (hummmm a foot sounds a awful lot like a single millisecond now doesnít it )

In a real soundstage some of the parts of the stage that give depth are because the instruments in the stage are diffrent depths away, if the real stage is 10í deep and your cars minds eye stage is 2í deep (because of aspect ratios) a 1ms delay added to say a mid could add 10í of depth to a stage) get what Iím saying.

Also high frequencies travel farther with less change to its phase and low frequencies travel farther without attenuation, so if you are sitting 30í away from the stage the lows may be a lot stronger and moved away from the highs in phase. So to recreate the sound stage wouldnít it make sense to move the timing of certain pairs of drivers to recreate the stage the way you like it?

Measurements indeed have there place and accuracy is definitely a part of the solution but itís not the goal. Donít get too hung up on trying to have the ďsetting correctĒ get it to sound good within reason .

What do I mean by ďwithin reasonĒ , I mean donít go moving the mids like 15ms away , thatís just retarded. Within reason is within the wavelength. If a speaker is playing a wavelength that is 20ms on the low side a 4ms on the highs side guess what....I would t go much past 4ms in that case ...

So for my mids that is 4.5ms on the low side and 1.128ms on the high side , I move them up to 1.128 ms away from other speakers and it sounds just fine actually I donít have a problem even going a tiny bit beyond that depending on how steep the crossover is , if my horn interacts down into the 400s thatís lie 2 plus ms ......



Dial your stage in with delays , let Dirac do the left right timing unless you absolutely hate it and must go a little more. Make it yours and what you like!


Actually, itís quite good thing


With Dirac now you have transfer functions that match so much better now between left and right , try recreate a soundstage when thereís massive time domain issues between all the channels that delay can not solve. Eek .

Even moving pairs of speakers with delay to make a soundstage still puts you miles and miles ahead of everyone else that dosent use Dirac.



I would suggest non Dirac dsp systems have as much as 25ms deficiencies in there spectrum. So your little 1 or 2 ms add on for staging is peanuts compared to what you had before. Iím convinced without any finite impulse correction a system is beyond repair in a car as far as a truly exciting soundstage (in my opinion) without excessive modifications or extremely calculated speaker placements and absolutely expert level dsp work.


The Dirac can make a typical door install phenomenal.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Is it possible to link channels in the plugin and delay them in groups?


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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
Is it possible to link channels in the plugin and delay them in groups?


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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
Is it possible to link channels in the plugin and delay them in groups?
I asked Mini for that about a year ago now, might be in the suggestions forum over at MiniDSP. I think someone replied it was a good idea but it never went anywhere.

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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
...


I would suggest non Dirac dsp systems have as much as 25ms deficiencies in there spectrum. So your little 1 or 2 ms add on for staging is peanuts compared to what you had before. Iím convinced without any finite impulse correction a system is beyond repair in a car as far as a truly exciting soundstage (in my opinion) without excessive modifications or extremely calculated speaker placements and absolutely expert level dsp work.


...
Yes and no...
A stunning set of speakers with good impulse response, and maybe sealed enclosures or IB would also not require much group delay correction.
So if those sets of speakers were closer to perfect than some other set, then an IIR based DSP would do just fine as there is little fix (TA and levels).

On the other hand there is not a lot of expert level tools that can make an IIR do impulse correction, and I am not sure if an all-pass can do group delay correction. So FIR based DSP is the straight forward way. Perhaps an IIR can do some of it, or perhaps when the levels of impulse response and group delay are low enough, then it doesn't matter so much.
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Default Re: Minidsp CDSP-DL 8x12 Dirac live upgrade or new release help

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Keep in mind that it will

Add delay to speaker that do not have excess group delay before convolution to align with a speaker that does have excess group delay. (Like a ported sub)

To save fir coefficients, and also , convolution by itself is a delay, and the delay could be used from the fir output against other channels , with the exception of 2ch Dirac. Meaning if one channel fir is 5.66ms and another channel is 6ms , guess what. So some of the delays may not make sense or seem like there right

And they may not be right for what you like. Itís delay structure is different than just actual distances , and so are the levels , you may see a left side turned down farther than right but it sounds even or quieter , there more going on that the numbers it outputs.



Also , convolution and any movement in phase can be seen as a delay (filters are casual)

Example, if you move phase at 200hz by 180deg itís like 1.6ms or close to (I made those numbers up from memory could be wrong but you get the idea)



So if itís moving only a certain amount of phase in one area of the magnitude that could the same thing as a full on delay from start to finish, depending on how the speaker is ďphasedĒ on measurements



So you just donít know!



The delays it adds are usually dam close. I would move the mic forward a tiny bit or back a tiny bit to move the center in combination with how close you get the mic to the left channel. Having the left side measurement points REALLY close to the speakers will lower the output on that channel , think about it. It averages all the responses between left and right, if one of the averages is high volume it will cut it.





In my post Dirac if I donít completely like where something is at , I start with levels and simply turn down levels on individual speaker in output in plugin not Dirac output , and move pairs of speaker up or down in delay , but keeping the delay apart the same ,



Example, freshly after Dirac if my midrange output is a 1ms for the Left and 1ms for the right than I would try moving Both to 1.25ms and listen than 1.5ms and listen

Or I may try going to .75 than .5 , and thatís why I start my Dirac with all speaker delays at 1ms so I can go down afterwards if I want one to go down starting all at zero only allows you to go up , if you did that than you would have to delay everything (all channels ) by 1ms so you could go down on one channel , I find it easier to start everything at 1ms than run Dirac



Do that to the mids or tweets or whatever and go back to the starting 1ms in my case and than try another pair of speakers like the midbass or tweets ,





Between levels and delays on outputs you should get it nailed down.

Again I donít add delay to a single speaker , just pairs, the Dirac delays it sets between pairs is usually spot fuckin on.



But only you know what a high and far back soundstage sounds like, moving the delays together and should raise/lower the stage and also change the phase a little at crossover frequencies if you have a harsh sounding crossover interaction and needs a tiny bit of delay to smooth it out on one side.



You can definitely try the invert button on pairs if you find the invert sounds better try re running Dirac with invert on.





Iíve run Dirac about 100x now with different combinations of starting delays and levels on outputs in plugin and now have a post Dirac tune that needs nothing

Itís perfect



Thereís lots of ways to skin the cat in the dsp





But also remember.

Your not trying to get your time alignment set to exact distances to make yourself feel better. Your trying to make your system sound kick ass.

Sometimes I get fought up on wanting something to measure a certain way or have the right amount of 1k or something and get lost on the basics of overall sound quality.



What is overall sound quality one might ask......ponder that one.



I would suggest it starts with not obsessing with settings in dsp being true or textbook ďcorrectĒ and do what sounds good. If moving your mids 2ms away from your tweets after your perfect impulse alignment sounds better than why the hell arenít you doing that? But more importantly why would it theoretically sound better is the bigger question.



A large deep soundstage is a recreation of something only your minds eye can extrapolate and your version of what is good may be what your actually after and this trying to adhere to textbook methods may be more damaging than it is good. What if hypothetically, you want your deep stage to sound like itís coming from outside the car how would you get there. Well for one you would have to break almost every rule in speaker alignment there is but you would get there.

Because of this. Sound is made up of phase , frequencies and amplitude (a transfer function). If you want the sound to sound like itís 30í away you have to create a transfer function that does that or 10í or 5í or just an extra foot (hummmm a foot sounds a awful lot like a single millisecond now doesnít it )



In a real soundstage some of the parts of the stage that give depth are because the instruments in the stage are diffrent depths away, if the real stage is 10í deep and your cars minds eye stage is 2í deep (because of aspect ratios) a 1ms delay added to say a mid could add 10í of depth to a stage) get what Iím saying.



Also high frequencies travel farther with less change to its phase and low frequencies travel farther without attenuation, so if you are sitting 30í away from the stage the lows may be a lot stronger and moved away from the highs in phase. So to recreate the sound stage wouldnít it make sense to move the timing of certain pairs of drivers to recreate the stage the way you like it?



Measurements indeed have there place and accuracy is definitely a part of the solution but itís not the goal. Donít get too hung up on trying to have the ďsetting correctĒ get it to sound good within reason .



What do I mean by ďwithin reasonĒ , I mean donít go moving the mids like 15ms away , thatís just retarded. Within reason is within the wavelength. If a speaker is playing a wavelength that is 20ms on the low side a 4ms on the highs side guess what....I would t go much past 4ms in that case ...



So for my mids that is 4.5ms on the low side and 1.128ms on the high side , I move them up to 1.128 ms away from other speakers and it sounds just fine actually I donít have a problem even going a tiny bit beyond that depending on how steep the crossover is , if my horn interacts down into the 400s thatís lie 2 plus ms ......







Dial your stage in with delays , let Dirac do the left right timing unless you absolutely hate it and must go a little more. Make it yours and what you like!





Actually, itís quite good thing





With Dirac now you have transfer functions that match so much better now between left and right , try recreate a soundstage when thereís massive time domain issues between all the channels that delay can not solve. Eek .



Even moving pairs of speakers with delay to make a soundstage still puts you miles and miles ahead of everyone else that dosent use Dirac.







I would suggest non Dirac dsp systems have as much as 25ms deficiencies in there spectrum. So your little 1 or 2 ms add on for staging is peanuts compared to what you had before. Iím convinced without any finite impulse correction a system is beyond repair in a car as far as a truly exciting soundstage (in my opinion) without excessive modifications or extremely calculated speaker placements and absolutely expert level dsp work.




The Dirac can make a typical door install phenomenal.
Chapter 1

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