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Old 07-08-2008   #276
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

JBL will do 4 way crossovers. Then there is the Logic 7 decoding. Then there are all of the EQ filters. Then there is the frequency dependent phase adjustments. Then there is the built in 8 channels of amplification if you want to use it.

And it does this on it's own from the programming done at Harmon. The guys at Harmon have learned a few things about speakers, speaker performance, and how to make things work in a car.

When you have the bank account that Harmon has, you can do pretty incredible stuff.
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Old 07-08-2008   #277
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

so any reliable guess as to the release date???

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Old 07-09-2008   #278
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

The MS-8 is also less than half the DSP6 package at retail.. Not knocking the zapco piece though... looks like a serious processor. It's like comparing a really good $600 home receiver (1-box solution) to a $1400 pre/pro separate meant for a high end setup. The big difference is probably what comes out of the speaker drivers.

Zapco gear is for that 1% of the 1% market of guys that have a higher point of diminishing returns. The MS-8 will let the average car-owner add big amps and auto-tuning without ripping up the proprietary dash or integrated oem head unit.

I fear H Intl might have missed the boat though.. The H650, 360's and other solutions along with a bump in economy and luxury spending are making it's feasibility for success a throw of the dice.
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Old 07-09-2008   #279
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I'm thinking that no one will be able to afford to own a car anymore by the time it comes out.

didn't I read some were that gary biggs put one in a newer BMW and said that with just the MS-8 it sounded almost as good if not better than the regal?
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Old 07-09-2008   #280
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 60ndown View Post
keeping the tech talk to a minimum, what does the jbl unit do that this doesnt

http://www.zapco.com/prod/DC_Ref/DSP_DRC_Frame.htm
Others have mentioned the differences, which are so gigantic and profound as to put the two boxes in entirely different leagues.

But one thing I think is funny is that the Zapco processor is barely different from what Harman offers in many of their pro audio products under the "HiQ" name, such as the Crown XTi-series pro amps. (The Zapcos do have 4 more parametric bands per channel, but I didn't see any shelf filters on their stuff so let's say it has 2 more bands.)

Hey Andy, how about putting that DSP into some of your car amps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babs View Post
I fear H Intl might have missed the boat though.. The H650, 360's and other solutions along with a bump in economy and luxury spending are making it's feasibility for success a throw of the dice.
I'm not sure. The H650 is a very different beast. It only offers 2.1ch of processing, for one thing, and Audyssey takes more of an Apple-style approach (you will do things our way and you will like it!) than Harman traditionally does. The MS8, from what I've read, does a whole lot more stuff, and the one-box approach (maybe 2 boxes with a sub amp) is enormously appealing if the box can be kept to a reasonable size. The 360 lacks the automated processes and is also only 2.1, so it's more of a niche thing even if it ends up being cheaper.

I think they can all find a niche. The 360 is good for people who fancy themselves too advanced for automated processes, and it probably has the best control scheme with the PalmOS bluetooth software that doesn't require the smart user to corrupt her/his Mac with Parallels or another emulator. The H650 is for people with simpler systems. The MS8 is for people who want the most advanced processing possible, either have or are willing to fab speaker locations to make it happen, and are intelligent enough to not obsess

Myself, I could see myself owning both the MS8 and H650, in different cars and for different installs. Unless the price is so compelling as to make it a no-brainer, the MS8 seems over-complicated for the Miata, and the H650's 2-channel Audyssey MultEQ XT implementation just right. (At this point, I think I actually prefer Audyssey's best work to Harman's - Lexicon's - for home room-EQ, though the Lexicon stuff offers so many options that it can be bewildering even to someone who knows what he's doing.) For the DS, the MS8 seems to make an awful lot of sense.

Last edited by DS-21; 07-09-2008 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 07-10-2008   #281
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

In simple terms, the MS-8 does it all for you and the DSP6 leaves it for you to do.
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Old 07-12-2008   #282
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

flame suit on anyone know whats the lastest update on ETA? Im hurtin for a processor at the moment.

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Old 07-13-2008   #283
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I already have a fully-aftermarket system, but I'm thinking about going active, and have zero tuning skills. I was really attracted to the Imprint H100 stuff because of this, but I want to use a non-Alpine HU for nav and other various features. Is this the thing for me, or is it really just mainly for people who want to keep their OEM interface or want surround sound or whatever? If I'm already fully-aftermarket and will be running a simple 2-way front or 3-way front + sub setup, should I be looking somewhere else? I'm basically looking for something that will take care of all the crossover, EQ, TA, phase stuff for me.

And since I'd need some kind of crossover/EQ hardware anyway, this thing makes sense right, since the HUs I'm looking at only have very basic functionality seeing as how they're primariy nav/media devices, not SQ devices.

What functionality would I be giving up or what caveats would there be to using the HU's volume controls and not the MS8's - this is pretty much a requirement for me. I can hardly even stand using volume controls on a touch screen or with up/down buttons, let alone a remote. I really want a volume knob. Since I'll be using an aftermarket HU anyway, I'm going to assume (maybe a mistake) that it won't do the thing of different EQ at different volume levels. If that's the case, is there any downside at all to using the HU's volume and not the MS8's?

I'm picturing that I run a single set of RCAs from the HU's front-channel pre-out to the MS8. Then (say 2 way front + sub) I run three sets of RCAs from the MS8 to my amps. That's it (aside from power, ground, and turn-on), right?

By the way, I wish the carputer stuff had been in another thread, since I'm really interested in that, too. It's funny, I've been taking apart and putting back together PCs since I was a kid and I've earned a living doing shocking things to servers worth over a million dollars each, but I'm scared shitless to try to get into the doors on my RSX. I seem the polar opposite of many in this thread. I think the chief advantage of a carputer (never having used one or even being remotely up to date on what they're doing) is that's it's a blank slate - install whatever software you want, configure it however you want. The killer feature for me would be to sit down in the car in the morning and via wifi, download new albums into the carputer from the computers in my apartment, instead of forgetting over and over to bring the mp3 player out of the car, into the apartment, sync it, and bring it back to the car, when I want to get some new albums into the car.

Also, from reading npdang's review of the H650 and then reading this, the H650 seems kind of clumsy in that you can vary from pretty bad to pretty good results depending just on where you put the mics, and with very little user control over the process other than that. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like a step back - instead of having all kinds of directed control (EQs, crossovers), now I go to just trying various locations for the microphone until it sounds good? I like the idea of having control over the target curve, but having a processor take care of getting me there.
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Old 07-22-2008   #284
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Hey Andy, is the MS-8 remote control signal compatible with a PAC steering wheel interface? Can it learn the volume up/down signal from the remote?

How about a USB-UIRT (Universal Infrared Receiver/Transmitter), to be able to send the MS-8 volume up/down commands through girder from a frontend like Centrafuse instead of sending the commands to the OS digital volume control.
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Old 07-23-2008   #285
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

MS-8 is a USB device not a host. It's updatable via PC through the USB, but it won't control a device.

The remote is RF, not IR. You could bury the remote in the wheel and splice the buttons. Or...you could just use the factory volume control and save yourself the hassle.
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Old 07-23-2008   #286
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

for the love of God Andy WHEN !!!
seriously though, even just an approximate eta would help

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Old 07-23-2008   #287
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
MS-8 is a USB device not a host. It's updatable via PC through the USB, but it won't control a device.

The remote is RF, not IR. You could bury the remote in the wheel and splice the buttons. Or...you could just use the factory volume control and save yourself the hassle.
Thanks Andy.

By the way, the USB-UIRT device is used to transmit and receive learned exterior IR remote functions and then triggering them using PC software functions (basically a learning remote for the PC). The MS-8 USB port would not come into play with this.

I was hoping to have the volume up/down commands from the front end reassigned to instead of sending the commands to the OS to raise and lower volume it would send them to the IR transmitter and make the MS-8 the master volume control.

I guess the only way to do it now is using a fusion brain and hardwire it to the MS-8 remote so it can trigger volume that way. Then have the PAC device send its IR signal through the USB-UIRT to the front end and then have the front end send it to the fusion brain and so on.

Why not just use the OS volume control? Resolution is there but so is zipper noise.
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Old 07-23-2008   #288
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

hehehehe... Geeks!!

You need one of these I'll bet...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80462773187994
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Old 07-23-2008   #289
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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hehehehe... Geeks!!

You need one of these I'll bet...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80462773187994
I'll pass, that's an older model already
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Old 09-04-2008   #290
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Monthly update bump.

Audiocontrol Matrix -> Custom MiniDSP 4x8 -> PDX 4.100 (Bridged), 2.150 & 1.600
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Old 09-04-2008   #291
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Seconded.

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Old 09-04-2008   #292
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

The good news is that we have now added another code-writer to the project. He's done a bunch of work on Lexicon processors, so we're making some new progress.
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Old 09-04-2008   #293
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
The good news is that we have now added another code-writer to the project. He's done a bunch of work on Lexicon processors, so we're making some new progress.
I remember a while back hearin that you may have a solution to our optical input desires. Will that still be the case?
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Old 09-04-2008   #294
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

The preamps feed the A/D converters directly. It should be no trouble to feed a 48k digital signal to the DSP. When we get closer, I'll dig around a bit more.
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Old 09-04-2008   #295
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

awesome. are you suggesting that a SPDIF is more likely? MMMMM Nakamichi here I come...
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Old 09-04-2008   #296
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

We won't be adding any additional connectors. If anything, I'll make some kind of DIY mod instructions available.
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Old 09-04-2008   #297
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Hi Andy,
It's good news the ms-8 skunk works hasn't disbanded. I'm just amazed at all the delays you poor guys have had with the thing. It's hard to sell a rumor huh.
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Old 09-04-2008   #298
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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We won't be adding any additional connectors. If anything, I'll make some kind of DIY mod instructions available.
ooooDIY mods...even better...
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Old 09-04-2008   #299
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
The good news is that we have now added another code-writer to the project. He's done a bunch of work on Lexicon processors, so we're making some new progress.
Cool. Is Fall 08 still looking like a possibility?

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Old 09-05-2008   #300
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I'm expecting an update by the end of next week with some real dates. I'll update as soon as I know.

I'm really sorry about these delays and we really appreciate your patience...OK...off to kick the beehive.
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