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Old 11-25-2008   #326
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
There are a number of 5.1 processors available. Even the 701 does 5.1.
All of which are not surround formats design for a car environment.

What happens with the H701 when you select "small" for you center channel in Dolby Pro logic II and don't have a speaker that plays low enough to mate with your sub? You either send midrange to your sub or you are forced to cross that range out completely and loose it since there is no L/R steering from a higher crossed center.
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Old 11-25-2008   #327
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Maybe it's time to reevaluate the need for somethings like powered outputs and the iPod input at all. Almost every car on the road has an iPod integration method from the factory or a third party company already, the powered outputs are too low powered to keep up with an aftermarket setup and I can't see anyone integrating this into an otherwise OEM setup. Other than the 7.1 (which is a COMPLETE waste of time in a car) everything else is already being implemented to a certain degree in other products.
iPod control is gone, BTW.

Also, stating your opinion in the most brazen and confrontational way possible doesn't turn opinion borne of inexperience into fact. I can assure you that the onboard power is sufficient for MANY people (me included) and 7.1, done correctly, is of great benefit in cars. I'll be happy to prove it by giving you a demo any time my car happens to be anywhere convenient for you to have a listen.
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Old 11-25-2008   #328
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

He referring to the internal amp channels? sheesh.. There's like 8 channels though.. It would be one thing if it were only four channels, but I can definitely see the advantage of 8 properly timed and tuned channels, even if they're not 100w at 4ohms. simple.. one box does it all deal.. install would be super easy.. Add maybe a larger amp for sub duty, but I think it would be a killer startup sq tool.. Then if one must add gobs of power, it'll do that too. As we can see with the Imprint criticisms, I can see why the ms-8 is still in the works though... in-car auto-dsp must be a very tough thing to accomplish well.

Still waiting, though the car has changed.. The ms-8 could be a quick swap out for the oem amp in my 08 Si sedan.. though I'd certainly upgrade the power/ground line. Send those four balanced oem lines to the ms-8, with some good door-deadening and active drivers.. yeeeeehaw. Then run a direct rca aux source (ipodish player of some flavor) as well.. would probably yeild as good or better results from oem head unit maybe.

I'm glad at least it sounds like the ms-8 project hasn't been sh#$canned.
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Old 11-25-2008   #329
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
iPod control is gone, BTW.

Also, stating your opinion in the most brazen and confrontational way possible doesn't turn opinion borne of inexperience into fact. I can assure you that the onboard power is sufficient for MANY people (me included) and 7.1, done correctly, is of great benefit in cars. I'll be happy to prove it by giving you a demo any time my car happens to be anywhere convenient for you to have a listen.
I'm not trying to be brazen, it just comes across that way. I guess it's my typing style.

I question the need for 7.1 because very little is recorded that way and it's hard enough to implement 5.1 in a car because of the need to fab a center channel in most cars. Now on top of that you have to find locations for the side surrounds. I would love to hear it in a car but I'm on the west coast until May and then Gernamy for the next 4-8 years.

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Old 11-26-2008   #330
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

For 5.1, and selecting "small" on center, you can implement a Bass Management system that redirects the audio below the center's cut-off back to the Left and Right, so that one doesn't lose it entirely.
Similarly, if you turn the center off entirely, you don't lose everything- it goes to the corners. But you retain the front to rear separation.
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Old 11-26-2008   #331
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

In a car that bass management is tricky, unless the left and right are time aligned. The bass from the center that's sent to the left and right will only reappear in the center of the image if the speakers are equidistant or time aligned. That's the facts and there ain't no 2 ways about it. You won't lose the signal, but the placement of the sound will suffer. That's why it's really important to install a good center. A pair of tweeters in the rear view mirror or stuck to the top of the dashboard are NOT a center channel.
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Old 11-26-2008   #332
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
A pair of tweeters in the rear view mirror or stuck to the top of the dashboard are NOT a center channel.

Damnit, Andy! Now I have to replace that Eclipse powered center tweeter kit on my rearview!
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Old 11-27-2008   #333
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Andy, please tell me this is being released and not a dead project.
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Old 11-27-2008   #334
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

NO, it's definitely not dead. Was in a coma and on life support, but has come back to life.
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Old 11-27-2008   #335
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Andy, does the unity gain of the MS-8 mean that you only get out what you put in or can it also line drive a sub 2 volt input signal.
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Old 11-28-2008   #336
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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NO, it's definitely not dead. Was in a coma and on life support, but has come back to life.
We talking Gary Busse type of coma, where its never the same again, or we talking more along the lines of rock star OD, where they pick up where they left off after they wake up?

I'm looking forward to this bad boy, remember sitting at a hotel room at CES (well, two hotel rooms unfortunately now I believe) and having Jim and Kelly show us the thing. I was like "I would pay money for one of those as soon as it came out" just because I don't really have the ear to do what it does.

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Old 11-28-2008   #337
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Dude, It's like Lazarus.
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Old 11-28-2008   #338
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

you can put me on the list of beta testers i cant wait to try it out

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Old 11-29-2008   #339
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Hey Andy... glad to finally see some updates on this.

Did I mention that I work as a computer programmer (if that helps my chances at getting in on the Beta test of the unit)

I know you're probably gun-shy at this question but any word as to how close to production this is?

Thanks
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Old 12-01-2008   #340
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I didn't have time to go through each and every post here but I saw a number of them on the Zapco 6 peice.

Don't know how many of you have used it but I had about a week with one and hated it. It is powerful but quirky and in general a PIA to use.

This ms-8 peice sounds promising.

In search of the perfect tweeter....
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Old 12-01-2008   #341
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Is this thing ever gonna get released....I mean, its cool of Andy to keep us updated and all but when do we start seeing these things for sale? And before anyone calls me impatient, I've been following development of this thing since Andy's first post in the now-defunct carsound.com forum and that was a MIGHTY long time ago. Plenty of release dates have been disclosed since then and nothing ever came out of it.

Not trying to be an ass here...I understand how groundbreaking this product is, and thus the need for things to happen slowly and carefully but surely such a long time is sufficient time for a processor to be developed isnt it, especially considering that working prototypes have been floating around and used in competition even for quite some time now? How committed is JBL to actually releasing this to market?
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Old 12-02-2008   #342
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

believe me when I tell you that you'd have been very unhappy with a product like the working prototypes, unless your use case was precisely the same as those in which the prototypes were used.

Those prototypes were based on nearly 8,000 pages of completely undocumented code written by a guy who quit. Bad...very bad...yes, a huge screw-up. We're working on it and it will be released. When? I don't know and given all of the past proposed release dates that didn't happen, I'm not presenting another one until we have a truckload of preproduction samples that kick ass and a confirmed production date.

I know patience is running thin (mine is too). Sorry.
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Old 12-02-2008   #343
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

"Use cases" and "undocumented code"... Andy you are beginning to sound like a software engineer

I like most are waiting impatiently as I am sure that this will be an excellent solution. Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2008   #344
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
believe me when I tell you that you'd have been very unhappy with a product like the working prototypes, unless your use case was precisely the same as those in which the prototypes were used.

Those prototypes were based on nearly 8,000 pages of completely undocumented code written by a guy who quit. Bad...very bad...yes, a huge screw-up. We're working on it and it will be released. When? I don't know and given all of the past proposed release dates that didn't happen, I'm not presenting another one until we have a truckload of preproduction samples that kick ass and a confirmed production date.

I know patience is running thin (mine is too). Sorry.

Undocumented code, sounds like some of the developers that used to work for me.

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Old 12-02-2008   #345
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
believe me when I tell you that you'd have been very unhappy with a product like the working prototypes, unless your use case was precisely the same as those in which the prototypes were used.

Those prototypes were based on nearly 8,000 pages of completely undocumented code written by a guy who quit. Bad...very bad...yes, a huge screw-up. We're working on it and it will be released. When? I don't know and given all of the past proposed release dates that didn't happen, I'm not presenting another one until we have a truckload of preproduction samples that kick ass and a confirmed production date.

I know patience is running thin (mine is too). Sorry.
I guess i can definitely see where you're coming from....im sure you want the product out one thousand times more than i do, so i'm not going to give you TOO much of a hard time...suffice to say a lot of us car audio junkies are very very keen to see the MS-8 sitting in our cars at long last. here's to hoping you make that dream a reality one day. In the meantime i'll force myself to tolerate my factory system

I'm also not sure if you're the guy to ask, but on a completely unrelated topic, i'm sending you a PM
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Old 12-03-2008   #346
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Undocumented code, sounds like some of the developers that used to work for me.

sounds like 80% of what I write - so it must be ready
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Old 12-08-2008   #347
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Andy, did the 325i with the MS-8 that won the sound quality competition in April of 07 have the Logic 7 system. Will the Logic 7 system in a BMW mess with the Logic 7 of the MS-8, will they work in perfect harmony, or does it even matter since the MS-8 will de-eq the bmw stock amp anyway?
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Old 12-08-2008   #348
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Yeah, the BMW included the Logic7 system. What we'll recommend is that all the signal processing (especially spatial processing) that can be defeated in the factory system should be defeated. Logic7 always has an off switch. Bass and treble fader and balance ought to be set flat or center. Then, MS-8 will do its thing. For OE systems that include DVD audio or video, we'll suggest theat the user should choose the 2-channel downmix of the DVD, which mixes in all of the surround stuff into the 2-channel mix. Then, MS-8 will decode that and play the audio in full surround.
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Old 12-09-2008   #349
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

All this suffering because of cars with overly proprietary dashes and sound systems hard-wired to their silly A/C heat, alarm and other crap. As a car buyer, I'd put these things high on the selection list.. A trend in auto design I hope will reverse or at least not overtake all models.

At least in my ride, the oem actually feeds flat full-freq line-level outs to the OEM amp, which is where any processing actually takes place.. (caveat: as far as I know).
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Old 12-09-2008   #350
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Another MS8 application question :-) If I were forced to choose between rear side or rear deck for rear fill w/ an MS8, which would be the better of the two choices as far as overall effect and quality? Would it even matter up in front? Or would it be better to go rear deck, at least for the sake of rear passengers? Really, I think I would prefer rear deck, if only for keeping a more "stock-ish" look in the cabin. Not that there is much stock about a 600+ HP alcohol injected Grand National, but I'd like to do what I can where I can... I'm not even sure I'll be able to come up with a way to integrate a proper center channel, and I kind of want one.

Which leads to another center question. If I had to choose between a center that is smaller than the FR and FL components, basically a compromise, is it even worth doing it at that point? Like, 4" center vs. 6.5" in the doors. So many tough choices, heh. Trying to do things the right way for a change.
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