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Old 07-13-2010   #3751
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Is there any way to get the MS-8 to see and EQ, say, five "subwoofers" and LCR? I notice when I played with Erin's that it only had space for two speakers labeled subwoofers. But I forgot to check if the "Front Lo" could play along with a subwoofer all the way down, or if there had to be a sub/front xover.

Anyone know?

(And before anyone asks, "why would you want to do that?" I have my reasons for asking.)
On Harman Kardon AVR's, we call this bass management mode 'L/R+LFE'. Large speakers play all the way down + sub. This is not allowed in the basic MS8 setup.
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Old 07-13-2010   #3752
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Probably a Geddes-like random sub distribution through out the car.
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Old 07-13-2010   #3753
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamS View Post
On Harman Kardon AVR's, we call this bass management mode 'L/R+LFE'. Large speakers play all the way down + sub. This is not allowed in the basic MS8 setup.
Nope. We don't allow this. Two subs is all you get. Having the front speakers AND the sub play the same stuff is bad news. I fooled myself for a long tiime in thinking that using the fronts as low as they'd play and using a sub and a bunch of overlap actually worked. It doesn't--or it doesn't with front-mounted midbass and a rear mounted sub. If the sub is in the front, then maybe.
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Old 07-13-2010   #3754
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
I don't think so. Reason I say that is because your limited in crossover functions between 'sub' and the next driver in line, whether it be midbass, midrange, whatever.
Hmm. I'd ask "what if you say 'no sub," but from my limited time with your MS-8 last Saturday (my MS-8 isn't scheduled to arrive until the 28th or so, apparently) if you accidentally select two outputs to be the same "channel" (i.e. two right-front-low) it will disable the earlier selection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
If you could tell us why you're asking, maybe someone here can give you some advice on it, though.
One's going in the Miata. But otherwise winslow got it right except for his last three words, "throughout the car." if it'll work I'll pick up a second for home subwoofer EQ. (12V wall-warts are easy to find.) Basically, use it as a JBL BassQ that's both cheaper and more functional (5 outputs instead of two). I just threw in the LCR bit as a smokescreen. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamS View Post
On Harman Kardon AVR's, we call this bass management mode 'L/R+LFE'. Large speakers play all the way down + sub. This is not allowed in the basic MS8 setup.
Adam, consider this a feature request then.

Even outside of my proposed (and presumably unauthorized, as you guys would much rather I bought a JBL BassQ assuming I could ever actually find one for sale!) use, I can think of many situations where some overlap of the midbasses and subs would be desirable. Not full LFE+Main, but some overlap. After all, extending Geddes' work to the car, the crap region is up ~an octave from where it is at home. So there's some theoretical benefit to randomizing "room modes" by having as many sources playing in the 100-200 Hz octave. (Yes, I am proposing running "subs" much higher than usual, because I think the conventional wisdom about sub crossovers is wrong. Established because of a combination of crappy, high-inductance drivers and too few drivers playing down low)
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Old 07-13-2010   #3755
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Hmm.
Even outside of my proposed (and presumably unauthorized, as you guys would much rather I bought a JBL BassQ assuming I could ever actually find one for sale!) use, I can think of many situations where some overlap of the midbasses and subs would be desirable. Not full LFE+Main, but some overlap. After all, extending Geddes' work to the car, the crap region is up ~an octave from where it is at home. So there's some theoretical benefit to randomizing "room modes" by having as many sources playing in the 100-200 Hz octave. (Yes, I am proposing running "subs" much higher than usual, because I think the conventional wisdom about sub crossovers is wrong. Established because of a combination of crappy, high-inductance drivers and too few drivers playing down low)
Yes, if you're concerned about uniform coverage over many listening positions in the car, this might be beneficial and we've done some research in that area. As it turns out, since there are really only 4 listening positions, placing the subs in the center of the car (under the front seats) and limiting theinteraction of those and the next driver in the chain provides similar coverage for the 4 seats.

I think your application is a cool idea and one that has merit, but there's no business case for it. Buy a carPC and a multi-channel interface. Youc an do BassQ with level, EQ and delay, and the number of iterations you'll work through will keep you busy enough that you'll have to xeriscape your lawn...
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Old 07-13-2010   #3756
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Andy, can you provide an approximate replacement cost for the speaker out harness? I am intending to use the MS8 to power speakers in my rear doors only and will be removing the wires for the other six channels, or trimming them short to minimize the risk of shorting. I just want to make sure this would not be a prohibitively expensive piece if my set up changed in the future.
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Old 07-13-2010   #3757
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
After all, extending Geddes' work to the car, the crap region is up ~an octave from where it is at home. So there's some theoretical benefit to randomizing "room modes" by having as many sources playing in the 100-200 Hz octave.
I'm intrigued. No doubt, 100-200 is the nightmare range in cars; just full of hideous room modes and standing waves. Can multiple drivers in that range help the problem? How many drivers would you need to have a significant effect?

Even so, I don't see why you would need the subs play up into that range. Why not just have mutiple parallel midbasses. That avoids beaming and breakup from the subs...

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Old 07-13-2010   #3758
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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the number of iterations you'll work through will keep you busy enough that you'll have to xeriscape your lawn...
HA!
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Old 07-14-2010   #3759
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I have a random suggestion/question. I am concerned about sacrificing stealth to have the screen installed in a semi-permanent manner. Since the remote only works if the screen is attached, and the only way to adjust the MS8's 'smart' sub boost is via the menu system with the remote and the screen, if I don't have the screen and remote, I can't use this function.

What are the chances we can have a basic 'sub gain' knob to hook into the unit's display port that would enable this feature, without the need to have the screen and remote hooked up?
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Old 07-14-2010   #3760
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by alachua View Post
I have a random suggestion/question. I am concerned about sacrificing stealth to have the screen installed in a semi-permanent manner. Since the remote only works if the screen is attached, and the only way to adjust the MS8's 'smart' sub boost is via the menu system with the remote and the screen, if I don't have the screen and remote, I can't use this function.

What are the chances we can have a basic 'sub gain' knob to hook into the unit's display port that would enable this feature, without the need to have the screen and remote hooked up?
Not much of a chance. The micro for the display is IN the display, so it sends control strings. The remote if RF, though. Mount the display in the glovebox or center console you'll be able to use the volume control and when you want to make adjustments, just open the compartment to see the display.

There are other ways to do stealth. I thing Biggs mounted his display in the rear view mirror.
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Old 07-14-2010   #3761
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Well I have to take back my earlier statement about not having a BT echo issue...

People on the other end are now complaining about being in an "echo chamber". I had originally "tested" it by leaving a message on my answering machine, and there was no echo, but the echo actually occurs when the person on the other end is talking, with their own voice.

I have not heard anything about this issue lately, or any possible fix, so please let it be known that my BMW (2008 335i) does have this issue.
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Old 07-14-2010   #3762
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Even outside of my proposed (and presumably unauthorized, as you guys would much rather I bought a JBL BassQ assuming I could ever actually find one for sale!) use, I can think of many situations where some overlap of the midbasses and subs would be desirable. Not full LFE+Main, but some overlap. After all, extending Geddes' work to the car, the crap region is up ~an octave from where it is at home. So there's some theoretical benefit to randomizing "room modes" by having as many sources playing in the 100-200 Hz octave. (Yes, I am proposing running "subs" much higher than usual, because I think the conventional wisdom about sub crossovers is wrong. Established because of a combination of crappy, high-inductance drivers and too few drivers playing down low)
If you have an extra channel, you could assign two subwoofers. Since most of the information down there is mono anyway for most recordings, why not run a set of midbasses in the doors to around 150-200hz and run your subs that high as well? Use an external highpass around 50hz to protect your midbasses.

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Old 07-15-2010   #3763
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Do you need to run a 4ch input to run rear speakers? If not, my ms8 won't let me setup rear speakers, when I go to select rear speakers, the only option is "none".

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Old 07-15-2010   #3764
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

choose "side"... you have to use side before rear...
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Old 07-15-2010   #3765
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Yea thats what I ended up doing. Sounds great that way, was just wondering how in the world you could select rears, lol.

Also, anyone wanna take a guess as to where I should cross my cars stock tweeters? They sound good at 3450, but I just hate that I have to recalibrate everytime I want to change it by 10 hz...

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Old 07-15-2010   #3766
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

It says right in the manual that rears are only available if you setup sides, and if you dont have sides, use the side option for the rears.

It's a bit confusing, you'd think if they are able to make Rear say none, they could make Sides say Rear, and skip the Rear step....if that makes sense lol
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Old 07-15-2010   #3767
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Has anybody run a full 7 channels with the MS8. Has anybody compared the 5 channels to the 7 channels?

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Old 07-15-2010   #3768
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Well I have to take back my earlier statement about not having a BT echo issue...

People on the other end are now complaining about being in an "echo chamber". I had originally "tested" it by leaving a message on my answering machine, and there was no echo, but the echo actually occurs when the person on the other end is talking, with their own voice.

I have not heard anything about this issue lately, or any possible fix, so please let it be known that my BMW (2008 335i) does have this issue.
I have no BT echo in my 2008 M3, but I'm not using the MS-8 high level outputs.
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Old 07-15-2010   #3769
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

^^Interesting.

On another not, where is yours mounted? The damned thing doesn't fit ANYWHERE. I'm hoping I can stack my amps and the MS-8 where the OEM amp is. Tuning will suck though since my sub will sit right above it.

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Old 07-16-2010   #3770
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
^^Interesting.

On another not, where is yours mounted? The damned thing doesn't fit ANYWHERE. I'm hoping I can stack my amps and the MS-8 where the OEM amp is. Tuning will suck though since my sub will sit right above it.
Mine is mounted under the Drivers seat.
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Old 07-17-2010   #3771
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Here's on for the dumb question forum maybe...but when you start with this what are you doing with the settings on your head unit?
I can reset my 9255 to it's factory settings...then let the MS-8 take over from there ?

I'm sure this has been covered...but time to read a 153 page long thread is hard to come by. LOL

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Old 07-17-2010   #3772
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNBROKEN View Post
Here's on for the dumb question forum maybe...but when you start with this what are you doing with the settings on your head unit?
I can reset my 9255 to it's factory settings...then let the MS-8 take over from there ?

I'm sure this has been covered...but time to read a 153 page long thread is hard to come by. LOL
Put everything flat and leave it that way.
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Old 07-17-2010   #3773
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNBROKEN View Post
Here's on for the dumb question forum maybe...but when you start with this what are you doing with the settings on your head unit?
I can reset my 9255 to it's factory settings...then let the MS-8 take over from there ?

I'm sure this has been covered...but time to read a 153 page long thread is hard to come by. LOL

Yep, run your 9255 full range and you should be good too go. Let us know your results. I am about to give this a go with the DEH-P01 and see what gives.

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Old 07-17-2010   #3774
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I don't have an MS-8 to try...but it sure is tempting to get one.

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Old 07-17-2010   #3775
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
^^Interesting.

On another not, where is yours mounted? The damned thing doesn't fit ANYWHERE. I'm hoping I can stack my amps and the MS-8 where the OEM amp is. Tuning will suck though since my sub will sit right above it.


I have been experiencing overheating issues, so this location is suspect.
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