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JBL's MS-8 processor!

2M views 13K replies 999 participants last post by  mzmtg 
#1 ·
MS-8 comes with the pre-amp/amp, a small display, a wireless remote control, a binaural microphone and a setup CD.

MS-8 will have 8 speaker level inputs, 8 line level inputs and an iPod input. The inputs are summed to provide a full-range 2-channel signal. If 6 or fewer inputs are required, then the last 2 can be used for an additional aux input.

There are no digital inputs. Why? Because the real benefit of digital input is "no noise". The downside to providing one is that for 99 percent of users, it's more hassle than it's worth and will cause a great deal of confusion. Not too many people understand that the connector doesn't determine the signal. What I mean is, if we put a toslink input and a user hooks up a toslink output, it will only work is the signal is compatible. DVD-Audio isn't available on a digital output, DVD signals are 48k, PCM is 44.1, home-made digital audio can be anything. The signal from tuners is often only output on the RCAs. For the vast majority of users, there is no benefit and too much opportunity for disappointment. As far as noise goes, our inputs are differential, so the commoon mode noise rejection is super high. There won't be any noise.

There are 8 input channels, so the 8 speaker level inputs and 8 line level inputs are basically in parallel. You can use any combination.

Once the signals have been combined and un-EQed (for a flat 2-channel signal), the signal is processed with Logic7. That provides signal steering for a center channel (if you have one--if not, no problem) and processing for side and rear channels. L7 works on any 2-channel source and is our version is written for cars rather than live-in rooms, so it sounds MUCH better than any of the encoded formats in a car. The 2-channel downmix of any encoded DVD or DVD-A disc will play back in full surround. If good-old 2-channel is what you want, L7 is defeatable and the channels are fully configurable (there are 8 output channels and they can be pre-amp channels or powered channels--20W x 8 at 4 ohms, 30W at 2 ohms). You can have 3-way front, a center and a sub, 2-way front, rear and a sub...whatever you want to do.

The electronic crossover that's built in is fully configurable. You can assign any channel to be anything and it includes an EZ setup mode and an advanced mode. In EZ setup, you tell each channel the speaker location (front right, for example), then you tell it what speaker is connected (6" full-range). It sets the crossover point. In advanced mode, you tell the channel the location (right front) and then assign a filter type (HP, LP, BP) and then you set the filter frequency (you can assign any value between 20 at 20kHz) and the slope (1st-4th order).

After the crossover setup is completed, you move on to the EQ. You put on the microphones (they look like airline headphones but contain mics instead of speakers) and insert the CD. The display will give you some instructions to sit in the driver's seat and look at the left mirror and press "go". the unit will make a quick sweep of all 8 output channels. Then it will ask you to look forward and will make another sweep. Finally, it'll ask you to look to the right--another quick sweep. You can measure only the driver's seat or up to 4 seats. After the measurements are made (takes about 5 minutes) the unit will calculate the frequency response, level and arrival time for all 8 channels in each seat and crunch some numbers (another 30 seconds or so). It auto-tunes the car with 48 measurements per seat (up to 4 seats). It will output a tuning optimized for the driver, passenger, compromise between driver and passenger and one for the rear seats. If you use a center channel, both front seats will sound the same and the image will be great for rear seat passengers too.

After the auto-tuning is done, it will allow you to change the target curve. You can call up a 31-band EQ tool and make whatever changes you want. Unlike a regular EQ, you don't have to find an RTA and tune the car with the EQ, you just draw the curve you want to hear and press "go" and it does the work in implementing your curve. Then you can switch back and forth between your curve and the automatic one and continue making changes until you're satisfied. The curve you draw will always be adjusted in level so that the maximum number of bits are available to describe the signal (optimized for dynamic range). Once you save the curve, you can access any of the settings optimized for any seat using the remote control and the display.

You can turn Logic7 on and off, adjust the level of the center channel, use a balance control, fader, 3 or 11-band graphic EQ or adjust the level of the bass. THe bass control isn't a gain control for the subwoofer output, it's a filter that works with the crossover and applies the right amount of bass to ALL channels so the illusion of bass up front isn't destroyed when you turn up the bass.

Answers to some likely questions:

1. You don't have to use the unit's volume control. You can use the one in the head-unit if you want to.
2. Maximum input voltage on the RCAs is 2V and 15V on the speaker level inputs. The signal is converted directly into digital after the preamp buffer, so a high signal level is far less important in this device than in conventional ones. The input is fully differential, so there won't be noise. I suggest speaker level connections because they are COMPLETELY isolated from ground.
3. The automatic EQ isn't exactly parametric or graphic. It's a very powerful algorithm that works on the impulse response to adjust both time and frequency response. It's amazing and does in about 30 seconds what I can do with an 80 band parametric EQ, crossover, time alignment and a serious analyzer in about 3 days.
4. The display doesn't have to be mounted. If you don't want iPod control or the ability to adjust after setup, you can unplug the display and use MS-8 as a "black box".
5. The unit is small--about 8.5" x 11" x 2.5"
6. Price will be about $800...TBD
7. The software is updatable via USB and a PC.

It does what all other OEM integration tools do and what every other DSP (EQ, Crossover, Time alignment, 7.1) processors do, but it sounds better, is easier to use, is less expensive and is far more advanced in terms of DSP power. Best of all, it's a tool you can be successful with, rather than a whiz-bang collection of filters and adjustment possibilities that require a PhD in acousitcs to use.
 
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#9,177 ·
right. my previous statements were not very clear i suppose.
Using class D standard 75% efficiency, and assuming a 15 foot run of 4ga wire for the main power line, you will pull 131 amps before your amplifiers notice .5V voltage drop, and you will be producing 1355 Watts of audio power. At full draw, your system is likely to pull 117A according to the link below.

JBL recommends 8ga power wires for the two MSA100.4s with 60A fuses on each. The 500.1 is recommended an 8ga power wire with an 80A fuse, although it can accept 4ga wire as well. Run these power wires from a distribution block which receives your main power wire straight from the battery. 4ga wire should be sufficient for your main power wire, with no more than a 125a fuse, and no less than a 100A fuse, within 18" of your positive battery terminal. As long as each wire smaller than the main is fused appropriately, you should have no problems here. You can also run the ground wires to a distribution block though the run from under your seats to the trunk may be quite long.

You are only really adding 1 wire off the battery, and through to the interior. Though you should strongly consider doing the "big three" upgrade and improving the battery->chassis ground, the battery->alternator charge wire and the alternator/engine block to ground wire while it is all getting installed.

see here: http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/sys...assistant2.swf
 
#9,178 ·
I thank you for your clarification. I chose a distribution block with 0 gauge in and 8 gauge out. I chose Rockford Fosgate amp sets, as I wanted to ensure OFC wire. Other sets had CCA (KCA for KnuKoncept).

Using the tool link... If I needed a long run for the main power line, or added an amp, it called for 2 gauge wire. I then went for the 0/1 gauge set.

If I am going to invest more than double what I had originally budgeted for a system, scrimping on the wire/nerves of the system seemed silly. The main power won't have to change regardless of amp/speaker solutions I may choose in the future.
 
#9,181 ·
I also would like to know how far the wireless remote works? I am thinking in the MS8 but I think I wont use the screen after the tunning (just hide it somewhere), is this possible? and if I dont use the screen I can use the remote for something? (volume mostly) or I neet to actually point to the screen?
 
#9,182 ·
U can hide it after tuning. Unless u connect ipod to the ms8 aux. I doubt u can use the remote without the display being attached. I might be wrong tho..

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
#9,183 ·
I believe the manual states ( or maybe it was on here) that you can't change anything on the ms-8 without the screen attached (therefore no remote without the screen). I just ran mine to the glove box. I still have to make a holder for it, but it's hidden, and can be in view easily by just opening the glove box.
 
#9,188 ·
Well what you said about the seats positions might be important and the extra effort and cost of putting the screen in a nice mounting in the center console might be worth it after all.

Another thing that worries me is the jet noise, but an owner of a MS 8 told me that I can solve it easily with a cap in the tweeters line to prevent any possible damage to the equipment in case the bug appear. About that, the cap will be needed at all times or only during calibration? This caps are like any cap of radioshack (obviously with a determined value) or I will need to use some special kind of cap? In fact I have bi amped passives, there is a possibility I can keep the passives to conserve the protections? or it will interfere with MS8 autotune capabilities?

Sorry for all the questions but I want to really expend my money wise, since I dont have much left..in THEORY my system was finished, but this never ends haha :rolleyes:
 
#9,190 ·
I would say stick with the A5001 as it leaves you more headroom to play with. In case u gonna change ur subs in the future. Just my honest opinion

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
#9,191 ·
stick with the amp you have, not worth the hassle of returning it and buying something else.

as for your fuse question....you ALWAYS need a fuse with in 18" of the battery, for protecting the vehicle. Any additional fuses in the trunk are optional.
 
#9,192 ·
Planning for a 120 amp fuse near battery.

Still open to swapping out the MS-A5001 for a MS-A1004. Nothing has been installed yet.

Since I got such a great deal from Crutchfield on the MS-A5001, it may be possible that I merely sell the subwoofer amp and apply the proceeds to the 4 channel amp.
 
#9,196 ·
I'd also have one question; does the ms8 allow to adjust the subwoofer level via the HU?

I have the Clarion CZ702, where you can adjust the sub-level on 2 different ways.. but, when I tested the MS8 in my setup, I forgot to try this out.. And, in my setup aren't amps used, which have a remote controller for gain-level..

thx
 
#9,210 ·
@Andy Wehmeyer @kaigoss69 @t3sn4f2 and anyone who has installed in e90....is the MS-8 completely silent? I have replaced HU recently to get rid of ground noise, replaced wiring harness (to fix noise from brake lights) but still I have what I think is MS-8 'processor' noise. It sounds like very high frequency morse code, someone a few hundred posts back described it as sounding like something thats used in the SETI program. thoughts?
 
#9,214 ·
I have been loving my MS8 and enjoyed finding the holes in my general install that make it sound even better. I have also been adamant to others that they take full advcantage of MS8 and use center channel with rears and L7. Lately I have been experimenting with turning l7 off, especially with FM radio. The crazy thing is, the center image is still locked down. To the point you almost want to feel the center speaker to make sure it isnt playing by mistake!! And the stage seems slightly wider. i guess i would like to here from folks who have done both. No center with L7 vs center. Of course I could just spend 5 minutes in drive and re-calibrate with no center! With out my active 2 way center, that opens up 2 channels to add rears. Car is a GTI so is this even worth it. I know andy has said the difference in 5.1 and 7.1 is small, but if i can do it should I? Is center and 5.1 better than phantom 7.1?
 
#9,215 ·
I do not have a center, and I prefer L7 off all day long; Imaging is pretty accurate with a perfect center, and sound stage is wider.

Car is a Sonata and I have components up front with tweeters in the dash, coaxials in rear doors and free air sub in the rear deck.

Love what the MS-8 has brought to my commute.
 
#9,216 ·
I am wondering the following information pertaining to the JBL MS-8. I couldn't find the answers in this thread or elsewhere.
What is the...
1.) Samping rate and bit depth of the ADC in the JBL MS-8?
2.) Samping rate and bit depth of the DAC in the JBL MS-8?
3.) Internal DSP sampling rate and bit depth? (is there sample rate conversion or degradation of the quality at this level?)
4.) Model # or manufacturer information of the ADC or DAC in the JBL MS-8?

I had a listen to the JL Audio rep's car who was talking up his JL equipment. When I told him I was using the MS-8, he naturally talked the MS-8 down and that this upcoming JL processor would be superior, etc. He proceeded to tell me the MS-8 wasn't any better than CD quality.
I thought that the MS-8 ADC and DAC was 24bit/48khz. Is that correct? If so, then it a definite step up from CD quality. I am feeding the MS-8 with a DAC that is 24-96 capable and I have tested some 24-96 content. I would like to know if this guy if full of ___.
 
#9,219 ·
Just tune for the driver seat with a center channel - it will then better for the passenger than no center channel...
... but still be great for the driver's seat ;)

If possible, get the same kind of power for your center as your front mids+tweets or the center channel will hold your system down as far as maximum loudness.

Kelvin
 
#9,220 ·
I have the option of using an MS-A1004 channel for power. It's just that the speakers I have on hand, that I know will fit, do not handle much power.

The clearance between the tweeter and the grille has yet to be determined. The grille delivered with the car is not functional. There is a different part on order. This should arrive hopefully in the next couple of days. Based on what I can determine, I may not have a 1/2 inch clearance.

We will try other speakers available to the installer.

Also, I measured the cutout at 3 inches. I used a cheap compass for this measurement. If the hole is actually 3 1/8 inches, then I have some additional speaker options by infinity and hertz I can try.
 
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