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Old 10-11-2011   #6251
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Default Re: processor noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kameraguy View Post
Hi Guys,

I am a new MS-8 owner and had it installed by my shop over the weekend. I am glad this thread is so informative as getting things to sound right has been a bit tricky. Without another MS-8 system to compare, I really don't know what is considered "correct".

I'm confident i'll get there with the help of this thread, bikinipunk's excellent thread, and the nice tips and tricks thread...

But one thing that I haven't been able to find reference: processor noise.

For my install, when calibrating the system from scratch, the system is silent. However, once I complete the setup cd input signal acquisition, i immediately hear a muted, but noticeable, white-noise-ish sound. It's very low in volume. If the car is running, I can't notice it. But with the engine off, it is noticeable. After I am done with the initial driver position calibration, this noise is still the same. It also doesn't change after i complete all the seating positions.

Playing music after sounds fine. But it's just that the quiet passages are detracted from this low noise present. I notice that regardless of how loud or quiet I play music, this "noise" remains the same in terms of volume (IE: raising the volume of music doesn't seem to affect the noise characteristics or it's volume).

I am pretty sure it's the processor because if I select defeat, the noise goes away and the system is silent again.

I'm at a loss on how to eliminate this noise...

Wondering if anyone has any ideas, or has experienced similar? Sorry if this HAS been discussed already, I must have missed it since this thread is huge. If someone can point me in the right direction, that would be much appreciated!

My system:
Car: 2008 Subaru Forester
AMP: JL XD 700/5 powering all speakers + sub

HU: Kenwood DNX 6160 Nav (EQ set to flat) -> connected to MS-8 via RCA

Sub: Kicker CVT10 (temporary until enough funds for JL) (set to 1,20hz subsonic,12db slope,front xover 80hz, 24db slope)

Front: Focal 165 VB (set to 1-way)

Center: none

Side: stock rear speakers (set to 1-way,80hz,24db slope)

Rear: none

CH1-FL/CH2-FR/CH3-SL/CH4-SR/CH5-none/CH6-none/CH7-Sub1/CH8-none

Calibrated with MS-8 volume set to -35db
YES! I am having this problem now. I had it before and I got it to go away (but can't remember how) now I am back where I started.
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Old 10-11-2011   #6252
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Try switching the selected listening position?
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Old 10-11-2011   #6253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
I could EQ my horns flat to 20k too, but EQ never changed the dispersion pattern of them...
Can you elaborate? I'm running L3SE's off axis with no tweeters as well. (They are mounted in the factory dashboard locations in my 2010 Prius, at least until I can teach myself fiberglass fabrication.) My assumption was that the MS-8 would correct any roll off of the highs.
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Old 10-11-2011   #6254
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

IT will correct the levels but can't change the dispersion pattern of the speaker. You can't electronically change the beaming characteristics of a speaker
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Old 10-11-2011   #6255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicfan View Post
Can you elaborate? I'm running L3SE's off axis with no tweeters as well. (They are mounted in the factory dashboard locations in my 2010 Prius, at least until I can teach myself fiberglass fabrication.) My assumption was that the MS-8 would correct any roll off of the highs.
Crap, I just thought of something.

I've had the MS-8 installed for about 3 weeks now, and I've had the whole gamut of problems; remote batteries that died after a few days, runaway feedback (AKA "jet engine noise" from leaving the mic plugged in, and yes, the dreaded missing midbass. I took all of the troubleshooting measures I could glean from this thread, including confirming correct speaker polarity, switching sub polarity, massively raising the MS-8 crossover freqencies, turning off amp crossovers (or at least setting them several octaves below the MS-8 cutoffs), level matching speaker outputs before measurement, and of course, running the sweeps at very low volumes. I got it sounding decent, but I'm using a lot of EQ to do so. I noticed that I got the
best tunes when I used the narrowest frequency range for the midbass speakers (~90-220hz), and I recalled Andy W saying that big peaks or dips in response in the lower frequencies could cause problems with level matching. Since my midbass speakers are a bit of a wildcard (6x9 woofers recycled from a set of Infinity Kappa 3-ways, t/s parameters unknown), I suspected that they were the problem and have been working on replacing them with something known to work well in a door mount.

It just occurred to me that maybe running the L3SE's without tweeters is forcing the MS-8 to boost the highs so much that it is running out of boost/cut to properly adjust the other frequencies. Is this possible, or should I go back to working on the midbass drivers in the doors?

My setup:

2010 Prius
Alpine ina-w910 HU
MS-8

Ch1-6 > XD600/6
1/2 > HAT L3SE (dashboard)
3/4 > 6x9 Infinity woofer (lower front doors)
5/6 > 2" OEM JBL midtweeters (upper rear doors)

Ch7-8 > Boston Acoustics gta-400m
> JL 8" flatwedge compact sub

[My apologies if this has been discussed already. I did RTFM and read literally thousands of the posts in this thread, but I still might have missed it.]
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Old 10-11-2011   #6256
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicfan View Post
Crap, I just thought of something.

I've had the MS-8 installed for about 3 weeks now, and I've had the whole gamut of problems; remote batteries that died after a few days, runaway feedback (AKA "jet engine noise" from leaving the mic plugged in, and yes, the dreaded missing midbass. I took all of the troubleshooting measures I could glean from this thread, including confirming correct speaker polarity, switching sub polarity, massively raising the MS-8 crossover freqencies, turning off amp crossovers (or at least setting them several octaves below the MS-8 cutoffs), level matching speaker outputs before measurement, and of course, running the sweeps at very low volumes. I got it sounding decent, but I'm using a lot of EQ to do so. I noticed that I got the
best tunes when I used the narrowest frequency range for the midbass speakers (~90-220hz), and I recalled Andy W saying that big peaks or dips in response in the lower frequencies could cause problems with level matching. Since my midbass speakers are a bit of a wildcard (6x9 woofers recycled from a set of Infinity Kappa 3-ways, t/s parameters unknown), I suspected that they were the problem and have been working on replacing them with something known to work well in a door mount.

It just occurred to me that maybe running the L3SE's without tweeters is forcing the MS-8 to boost the highs so much that it is running out of boost/cut to properly adjust the other frequencies. Is this possible, or should I go back to working on the midbass drivers in the doors?

My setup:

2010 Prius
Alpine ina-w910 HU
MS-8

Ch1-6 > XD600/6
1/2 > HAT L3SE (dashboard)
3/4 > 6x9 Infinity woofer (lower front doors)
5/6 > 2" OEM JBL midtweeters (upper rear doors)

Ch7-8 > Boston Acoustics gta-400m
> JL 8" flatwedge compact sub

[My apologies if this has been discussed already. I did RTFM and read literally thousands of the posts in this thread, but I still might have missed it.]
Recommend you try to play your midbass from 90Hz to 800Hz... Let the MS-8 do the work

Kelvin

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I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Who knows, some might understand now
and here's another one and another <-- click on the links
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Old 10-11-2011   #6257
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Default Re: processor noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
YES! I am having this problem now. I had it before and I got it to go away (but can't remember how) now I am back where I started.

Hi, in case you recall how to get rid of it, please let me know...I also reached out to JBL support to see what they say. Will share if I find out how to correct this.
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Old 10-11-2011   #6258
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Phew....searched some pages for my simple install question, but found nothing. Anyway I'm finally getting around to installing my MS8 that I've had for a while, but not sure about one thing. I run my fronts and subs off amps, and the rears off the HU. Do I need to run the rears off the MS8's internal amp, or can I leave the rears wired as is and run the rest of the set up with RCA's as instructed?
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Old 10-12-2011   #6259
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by motovet View Post
Phew....searched some pages for my simple install question, but found nothing. Anyway I'm finally getting around to installing my MS8 that I've had for a while, but not sure about one thing. I run my fronts and subs off amps, and the rears off the HU. Do I need to run the rears off the MS8's internal amp, or can I leave the rears wired as is and run the rest of the set up with RCA's as instructed?
Rears off the MS-8. The manual explains it.

Kelvin

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Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Who knows, some might understand now
and here's another one and another <-- click on the links
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Old 10-12-2011   #6260
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery View Post
Rears off the MS-8. The manual explains it.

Kelvin
Surely you're not suggesting to read the manual.

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Old 10-12-2011   #6261
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash View Post
Yes, I read the manual thoroughly and followed the steps exactly. I got a little closer by replacing the head unit with my iPod. Downloaded the sample Wav from JBL and played it through the iPod for the calibration. I can bypass the processing and it sounds good, turn on the 7 and it sounds OK. But truning on the processing no matter what sounds like your listening to it in a tin can.
Try recalibrating with the subwoofer disconnected. I'll bet that it's still too loud. If that works, turn the gain of the subwoofer amplifier down and recalibrate.
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Old 10-12-2011   #6262
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elerner61 View Post
Here's a question who's likes I haven't seen (even searched this thread for it).

I've almost got my MS-8 up and running in my convertible (BMW Z4M). I would think calibrations for "top up" and "top down" would be different. How could I store them? I was thinking of using the settings for Driver, and Passenger to save the calibrations for Driver Top Up and Driver Top Down, respectively. Any reason this would not work?
MS-8 only stores one set of auto EQ correction filters. Do calibration with the top up. Adjust the 31 band to your liking. Save that as a preset.Then, put the top down, readjust the 31-band to your liking and save that as another preset.
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Old 10-12-2011   #6263
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by FartinInTheTub View Post
Yep... Just need to run the first calibration with your top down then save it... Then with the top up then save that one. Then you can toggle between the two whenever you want.
No, this is not correct. See post above.
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Old 10-12-2011   #6264
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
MS-8 only stores one set of auto EQ correction filters. Do calibration with the top up. Adjust the 31 band to your liking. Save that as a preset.Then, put the top down, readjust the 31-band to your liking and save that as another preset.
Andy, then what does MS-8 do when you perform acoustic calibrations at the different seat positions and those are saved? I would think that different seat positions (as well as Top Up, Top Down) would require different time corrections, not just equalizations.

Thx.

Last edited by elerner61; 10-12-2011 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 10-12-2011   #6265
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I am interested in hearing more on the usage of "widebanders" without tweeters, since that is where I am leaning at present. I have some passive crossovers from a component set that I could use between my trinity and tweeter. Is it worthwhile to do so? I have a few options to select from: 1. Run widebanders (no tweets) while using the back channels off ms-8 power for the logic7 in rear doors. 2. use the two channels for active tweet (instead of rear channels). 3. use passives with tweets and keep rear channels. Andy, any thoughts as to best practices in my scenario?
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Old 10-12-2011   #6266
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Like I said, if you want to hear a MS-8 system with tweeters and a 3 way center, I am 30 miles west of Charlotte down I-85 in Kings Mountain
When are you going to post some pics? I am anxious to see what you've done. They don't have to be finished quality (hell take a look at my build log).

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Old 10-12-2011   #6267
 
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Default Re: processor noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kameraguy View Post
Hi, in case you recall how to get rid of it, please let me know...I also reached out to JBL support to see what they say. Will share if I find out how to correct this.
I get some pretty crappy noise through my sub... mostly low end grumble with the odd higher frequency pops. I switched the rca's from the sub over to my midbass and the noise showed up there as well. Very frustrating. And YES-- I UNPLUG THE MIC AFTER CALIBRATION.
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Old 10-12-2011   #6268
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elerner61 View Post
Andy, then what does MS-8 do when you perform acoustic calibrations at the different seat positions and those are saved? I would think that different seat positions (as well as Top Up, Top Down) would require different time corrections, not just equalizations.

Thx.
Using more seats for calibration only gives the MS-8 more info in order to calibrate. I don't see a reason why the time correction has to change from going Top Up to Top Down...

Kelvin

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Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Who knows, some might understand now
and here's another one and another <-- click on the links
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Old 10-12-2011   #6269
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
MS-8 only stores one set of auto EQ correction filters. Do calibration with the top up. Adjust the 31 band to your liking. Save that as a preset.Then, put the top down, readjust the 31-band to your liking and save that as another preset.
I win! One moon-pie and one root beer please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elerner61 View Post
Andy, then what does MS-8 do when you perform acoustic calibrations at the different seat positions and those are saved? I would think that different seat positions (as well as Top Up, Top Down) would require different time corrections, not just equalizations.

Thx.
Gonna guess again and say Yes they'll each get their own individual calibrations, but one to all positions measured are stored under the same record.

If it didn't affect your normal driver seat calibration, that might be a way to beat it... Maybe calibrating top-up driver and passenger, then top-down rear-left and rear-right (but actually sitting in the driver and passenger). Then just select the rear position for top-down tunes... Maybe?

... Just might work to "trick" the MS-8. Can't hurt.. If it's screwed up, just re-calibrate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery View Post
Using more seats for calibration only gives the MS-8 more info in order to calibrate. I don't see a reason why the time correction has to change from going Top Up to Top Down...
Kelvin
That's the golden question.. If the other seat calibrations have anything to do with say just the driver seat calibration. ???
I'll bet not at all, so the driver seat calibration would typically be no different whether you calibrated just driver-seat or all. Granted I haven't had two calibrations exactly the same, but close.

... sorry can ya tell I've had way too much fun with the ms-8.. FINALLY. LOL!

Last edited by Babs; 10-12-2011 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 10-12-2011   #6270
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elerner61 View Post
Andy, then what does MS-8 do when you perform acoustic calibrations at the different seat positions and those are saved? I would think that different seat positions (as well as Top Up, Top Down) would require different time corrections, not just equalizations.

Thx.
OK, That's a good idea...Measure the driver's seat with the top up. When it asks you to move to the passenger's seat, then put the top down. Then, driver's will be top up, passenger will be top down, but the "Front" will be a compromise between the two.

You could also calibrate for "Rear" by measuring the rear right and left seats with the top down while sitting in the driver's seat. then driver's would be top up, passenger would be top up, front would be a compromise between driver and passenger with the top up and rear would be driver with the top down.
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Old 10-12-2011   #6271
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I might have to try this outside with sunroof open. LOL

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Old 10-13-2011   #6272
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Default Re: processor noise?

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Originally Posted by rugdnit View Post
I get some pretty crappy noise through my sub... mostly low end grumble with the odd higher frequency pops. I switched the rca's from the sub over to my midbass and the noise showed up there as well. Very frustrating. And YES-- I UNPLUG THE MIC AFTER CALIBRATION.
I haven't received any reply back from JBL support yet. Will try and call when i get the chance.

Another issue I have been wrestling with is I am also encountering lack of mid-bass and excessive low-end rumble from my sub too (I see this has been discussed before).

I saw Andy mention to recalibrate with the subwoofer disconnected and see if this improves anything. I will give that a shot and see how it changes things.

Crossing fingers that somehow this would remedy the system noise too....
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Old 10-13-2011   #6273
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by subwoofery View Post
Rears off the MS-8. The manual explains it.

Kelvin
Thanks. Figured everything had to go through the MS 8, but my Imprint allows tuning with HU power.....so wasn't positive since the manual didn't say to not do that.
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Old 10-14-2011   #6274
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

OK Guys I sent this to Andy in a PM but I also thought I'd throw it out there to see if you guys can pinpoint my problem. Here's the rundown:


Im running the factory GM Nav Headunit in my 2011 Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew. My truck includes the BOSE junk too. So we came out of the bose amplifier front Left and Right line level into our JBL MS-8 front L & R input. Then we come out of the MS-8 using outputs 1,2,3 & 4 to a MS-A1004 running 4-channel mode - outputs 1 & 2 to my JL 5 1/4 Kick panel components and outputs 3 & 4 to my rear door 6 1/2" JL C3 coaxials for rear fill. We leave the MS-A1004 using the passthrough to a second MS-A1004 using inputs 1 & 3 using this amp bridged to my front left and right doors running a set of JL C5-653 3-way components. Ok so back to the MS-8 for outputs 7 & 8 that each goto their own MS-A5001 running a pair of JL 10W3's @ 2 ohm. So output 7 to 1 MS-A5001 and output 8 to the 2nd MS-A5001. 4 Total JL 10W3's in all. Ok so we've set the MS Amps with the input level set all the way down and the switch on LOW. We initially started with the output on all amps set at 50. Had no luck so we tested it at 60 and now at 70. We're getting the MS-8 to complete the setup but we have to defeat the processing completely to get any good sound out of it. Also we have a ton of noise with the volume turned down. The rear speakers at any real volume start making a weird noise also. He said he tried it with the amps switched to HI but then he had no volume. Wasn't sure if our problem was related to the bose crap or what. We've really spent alot of time wiring this and he swears he's double checked the polarity of all speakers. I didn't know if we needed to turn the amp inputs up the same amount after tuning to give us a bit more volume and possibly to take some of the noise out. But what are we doing wrong........I hope I haven't forgotten anything and would love nothing more than to prove to them that this JBL MS-8 is a cool processor.


BTW I have one other question......we did a bandpass box ported through the wall of my truck and have the box and amp rack in my bed along with the MS-8......now my idea was to leave a really good quality 3.5mm extension plugged into the MS-8 and have that run into the center console of the truck.......that way when ever I need to calibrate the system I just plug the heaphone mic into the extension and unplug when done. Will this work or will it cause problems. The other problem is the MS-8 is flushed into the amp rack and getting to the jack is gonna be a task so I figured we'd make it easy to plug into. Thanks Andy in advance for all that you do on these forums and it made the difference in my decision to purchase JBL

Last edited by JJDu4; 10-14-2011 at 02:15 PM..
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Old 10-14-2011   #6275
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJDu4 View Post
OK Guys I sent this to Andy in a PM but I also thought I'd throw it out there to see if you guys can pinpoint my problem. Here's the rundown:


Im running the factory GM Nav Headunit in my 2011 Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew. My truck includes the BOSE shit too. So we came out of the bose amplifier front Left and Right line level into our JBL MS-8 front L & R input. Then we come out of the MS-8 using outputs 1,2,3 & 4 to a MS-A1004 running 4-channel mode - outputs 1 & 2 to my JL 5 1/4 Kick panel components and outputs 3 & 4 to my rear door 6 1/2" JL C3 coaxials for rear fill. We leave the MS-A1004 using the passthrough to a second MS-A1004 using inputs 1 & 3 using this amp bridged to my front left and right doors running a set of JL C5-653 3-way components. Ok so back to the MS-8 for outputs 7 & 8 that each goto their own MS-A5001 running a pair of JL 10W3's @ 2 ohm. So output 7 to 1 MS-A5001 and output 8 to the 2nd MS-A5001. 4 Total JL 10W3's in all. Ok so we've set the MS Amps with the input level set all the way down and the switch on LOW. We initially started with the output on all amps set at 50. Had no luck so we tested it at 60 and now at 70. We're getting the MS-8 to complete the setup but we have to defeat the processing completely to get any good sound out of it. Also we have a ton of noise with the volume turned down. The rear speakers at any real volume start making a weird noise also. He said he tried it with the amps switched to HI but then he had no volume. Wasn't sure if our problem was related to the bose crap or what. We've really spent alot of time wiring this and he swears he's double checked the polarity of all speakers. I didn't know if we needed to turn the amp inputs up the same amount after tuning to give us a bit more volume and possibly to take some of the noise out. But what are we doing wrong........I hope I haven't forgotten anything and would love nothing more than to prove to them that this JBL MS-8 is a cool processor. They only sell the Rockford 3Sixty.2 and the Alpine Imprint stuff so they all giving me hell about my JBL Decision but I've been on these forums enough to know that people are getting great results out of these units. I've even got JBL subs waiting to replace these JL 10W3's and a couple sets of the JBL MS-C62 components in route to make this system a complete JBL System once I get these minor problems worked out. BTW I have one other question......we did a bandpass box ported through the wall of my truck and have the box and amp rack in my bed along with the MS-8......now my idea was to leave a really good quality 3.5mm extension plugged into the MS-8 and have that run into the center console of the truck.......that way when ever I need to calibrate the system I just plug the heaphone mic into the extension and unplug when done. Will this work or will it cause problems. The other problem is the MS-8 is flushed into the amp rack and getting to the jack is gonna be a task so I figured we'd make it easy to plug into. Thanks Andy in advance for all that you do on these forums and it made the difference in my decision to purchase JBL
No offense, but I'm not even reading that until it resembles proper structure. Anything that looks like it would hurt my brain to read...I skip.

The only reason I'm even typing this is because I bet others who can help feel the same way.

.
Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
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