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Old 03-21-2017   #12101
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I copied the JBL MS-8 setup disk in .wav format as soon as I got it. It is roughly 38 mins of popping type of noise. Since I still haven't installed mine, I don't know exactly what this does.

I can upload to my google drive, if you want to download a copy?
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Old 03-21-2017   #12102
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
I am not for now but I'm pretty sure I will be at some point in the future. I'm still not completely up on the process for setup without the CD. Is it integral to the MS-8 itself? Done during the on screen setup?


If your using an aftermarket hu on the first screen where it tells you to
Enter the cd, just push skip input setup.

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Old 03-21-2017   #12103
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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If your using an aftermarket hu on the first screen where it tells you to
Enter the cd, just push skip input setup.

Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 03-21-2017   #12104
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Guys, no big deal. Just DL this

http://ms8-eu.jbl.com/installation.h...ck%20Small.wav

Yeah and its about 40 seconds of noise. Weird noise too. But it means something to the MS-8. Kinda sounds like the noise you'd expect an epic dubstep song to begin with.

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Old 03-21-2017   #12105
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthmeal View Post
Guys, no big deal. Just DL this

http://ms8-eu.jbl.com/installation.h...ck%20Small.wav

Yeah and its about 40 seconds of noise. Weird noise too. But it means something to the MS-8. Kinda sounds like the noise you'd expect an epic dubstep song to begin with.
Very cool, If that's the case I'm getting the right download. I was just confused I guess as I've watched a number of videos of people setting it up and hadn't come across that set of staticy noise before. I was expecting more of the tonal sweeps that i guess come later in the setup.
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Old 03-21-2017   #12106
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
Very cool, If that's the case I'm getting the right download. I was just confused I guess as I've watched a number of videos of people setting it up and hadn't come across that set of staticy noise before. I was expecting more of the tonal sweeps that i guess come later in the setup.
Yes, the MS-8 will make quick beeps and sweeps on its own, this is just for head unit summation and flattening (unnecessary if you're using an aftermarket deck typically.)

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Old 03-21-2017   #12107
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by fourthmeal View Post
Yes, the MS-8 will make quick beeps and sweeps on its own, this is just for head unit summation and flattening (unnecessary if you're using an aftermarket deck typically.)
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Old 03-21-2017   #12108
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
Very cool, If that's the case I'm getting the right download. I was just confused I guess as I've watched a number of videos of people setting it up and hadn't come across that set of staticy noise before. I was expecting more of the tonal sweeps that i guess come later in the setup.
I will add that MS-8 mutes the output when it is doing the calibration (De-equalization) with the HU.

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Old 03-21-2017   #12109
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dengland View Post
I will add that MS-8 mutes the output when it is doing the calibration (De-equalization) with the HU.

Just read that. Getting excited. Been years since I had decent sound.
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Old 03-27-2017   #12110
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Just wanted to give an update on my situation. The jet engine noise in my unit would not go away no matter how many resets were done or how much time passed. It appears to be fried. It did manage to blow my right tweeter in the process. I had to buy a used MS-8 on eBay. In the meantime, the loud "pop" that was occurring when the radio was off was solved by recoding the factory radio to activate the internal speaker leads and turn off the factory Fender amp. I then ran just left and right full range into the MS-8 instead of the five channels I was forced to use when using speaker leads off the Fender amp. The MS-8 seemed to like this much better. Everything sounds better.

My only problem is that when I manually turn the subwoofer off via external bass knob the 6.5" Polk Audio speakers in the door sound like they are 4" drivers. The sound is crisp and clear, but it lacks fullness like other people have said and sounds a bit AM clock radio-ish. Can this likely be tweaked out with the EQ?

I really don't know what I'm doing.
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Old 03-27-2017   #12111
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Have you checked the polarity on the 6.5"?
What are your crossovers set at?
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Old 03-27-2017   #12112
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Two things, get a mic and calibration software, and mic the system using the proper multi-measurement method. You don't know what to improve without measuring it. The MS-8 may be compensating for a hole in the response, for instance... we don't know.

The MS-8 that's trashed will probably make its cost up back in parts if you sell them. Heck, I bet even the outside frame could be salvaged, if it isn't too scratched, or if someone wanted to try a custom paint job. It sucks, but these things won't live forever. If I could figure out how to get steerable center out of Helix (maybe an add-on card could do it), I'd say upgrade to Helix as the V-Eight I have in my other ride is phenomenal. It is 10 channels but it can only derive a center and rear, not create it with Logic7 or PLII. Bummer, because the rest of it is flawless, and it sounds crystal clear.

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Old 03-27-2017   #12113
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by glockcoma View Post
Have you checked the polarity on the 6.5"?
What are your crossovers set at?
I have triple checked the polarity on all the speakers and the cross over is set at 3500 for high pass and 80 low pass to sub.

I don't know how to measure the system and don't have access to a mic or software. I'll have to get help from someone, but to make matters worse, now I keep getting a message that says "Voltage too high, shutting down". I can't get the MS-8 to stay on at all. This is a first.
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Old 03-27-2017   #12114
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Fourthmeal, I am a novice at this stuff, but I am willing to learn. Do you know of a decent guide for how to measure the system? Can I use an app for my iPhone? I do appreciate the help. Thank you!

Paul
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Old 03-27-2017   #12115
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by q2quest View Post
Fourthmeal, I am a novice at this stuff, but I am willing to learn. Do you know of a decent guide for how to measure the system? Can I use an app for my iPhone? I do appreciate the help. Thank you!

Paul
I downloaded an app for my iPhone from Audio Control which was free and works very well (compared to having nothing). Honestly, after dealing with these same issues, don't just check to make sure the speakers are wired correctly as far as the phase. I had everything wired correctly but after the MS8 did its thing my driver's midbass was acoustically out of phase leading to very weak midbass. After switching that woofer I found the passenger mid/tweet were then out of phase with everything else leading to VERY thin sound. Seriously, just switch polarity, listen, repeat. After doing all that, I then fired up the pink noise & RTA app and went to work with the EQ.

This is what I did... I tried to flatten the response as much as possible. If you drag your finger along the graph (on the AC app) you can "mark" each EQ band and adjust as necessary. Then I fired up a music track I know VERY well. I liked what I heard and was close so I grabbed a pen & paper and jotted all my EQ settings down. That way if I went way off I could get back to my "reference" that I knew was close. I kind of took my EQ and smoothed out the curve instead of having a jagged "skyline". Each time it got better I jotted down my new settings. Again, if I got a little too happy with the EQ I could always get back to my improved settings.

I'm now happy to say that my car sounds WAY better than it ever has. The sound is nice and "full" with plenty of impact and the bass is all up front. My image isn't always dead-center but without individual L&R EQs it's about as good as it can get. Honestly, though, I'm not competing and I'm happy with how it sounds so... WIN! Sorry this got winded but hopefully it helps. Long story short... check yo phases!

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Old 03-28-2017   #12116
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTodd View Post
I downloaded an app for my iPhone from Audio Control which was free and works very well (compared to having nothing). Honestly, after dealing with these same issues, don't just check to make sure the speakers are wired correctly as far as the phase. I had everything wired correctly but after the MS8 did its thing my driver's midbass was acoustically out of phase leading to very weak midbass. After switching that woofer I found the passenger mid/tweet were then out of phase with everything else leading to VERY thin sound. Seriously, just switch polarity, listen, repeat. After doing all that, I then fired up the pink noise & RTA app and went to work with the EQ.

This is what I did... I tried to flatten the response as much as possible. If you drag your finger along the graph (on the AC app) you can "mark" each EQ band and adjust as necessary. Then I fired up a music track I know VERY well. I liked what I heard and was close so I grabbed a pen & paper and jotted all my EQ settings down. That way if I went way off I could get back to my "reference" that I knew was close. I kind of took my EQ and smoothed out the curve instead of having a jagged "skyline". Each time it got better I jotted down my new settings. Again, if I got a little too happy with the EQ I could always get back to my improved settings.

I'm now happy to say that my car sounds WAY better than it ever has. The sound is nice and "full" with plenty of impact and the bass is all up front. My image isn't always dead-center but without individual L&R EQs it's about as good as it can get. Honestly, though, I'm not competing and I'm happy with how it sounds so... WIN! Sorry this got winded but hopefully it helps. Long story short... check yo phases!
So, do you suggest flipping the polarity on one of the mids without running another calibration to see if the sound improves? If it does would I or should I recalibrate the MS-8 after that?

Are you using the MS-8's 31 band equalizer to try and get the response flat as you stated above? Or are you somehow using the Audio Control app to make adjustments?
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Old 03-28-2017   #12117
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

^

I wouldn't use the EQ as a tool to fix a problem, only to fine tune a good calibration to suit your taste better.

I suggest being meticulous about setting up the environment to give the ms-8 the best chance to calibrate properly. Make sure you're in a dead quiet place. At night, in a closed garage, with your windows closed. Sit still, don't move at all. If you hear a noise somewhere while it's calibrating, start over.

I see you are using factory speakers and locations. Don't ask too much out of the door mid and sail tweeter. Try 100Hz lowpass and don't go below 3kHz on the tweeter. 24dB slopes all around. Set your sub amp gain so you can barely hear it compared to the midrange. Our hearing sensitivity drops dramatically the lower and higher your move in the audio range. So you might think its as loud as the mid but it might be ways louder actually. And the when calibrating set the ms-8 volume so you can barely hear the sub as well. That is another important reason to make sure you are calibrating in a very quiet place. If there is some background noise you will compensate by raising the volume in order to hear it. That could overload the ms-8 mics then. Once you get a good calibration then raise the sub gain back to the level you prefer.

It's also a good idea to do sound treatments on the door mid. Isolate the back wave from entering the cabin as best you can.

Are the speaker in your OE system of somewhat decent quality? If not it might be worth spending a little on some cheap DIY drivers. With ~$100 you could bring their quality level up to around the best you'll see in luxury cars approaching $60-80K. Dayton, Silver Flute just to name a few.

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Old 03-28-2017   #12118
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by q2quest View Post
Fourthmeal, I am a novice at this stuff, but I am willing to learn. Do you know of a decent guide for how to measure the system? Can I use an app for my iPhone? I do appreciate the help. Thank you!

Paul
I use REW, its free software for use with a calibrated mic, on a laptop. I'll defer to other experts on iOS software, most portable apps lack the resolution required to see what's really going on, IMO.

But whatever route you go, seeing the response can help you tailor it to your own personal liking, instead of the JBL house curve, which may be not ideal. I always like some extra punch in my midbass, followed with a more mellow sibilant range in the lower treble, and a slightly rising top end for a tiny bit more "air".

From there, I adjust solely by ear, listening to my favorite EDM sets, mostly Matt Darey / Nocturnal episodes, Hook N Sling, Avicii, and Monstercat. The vocal range usually needs a bit of manual tweaking, as well as the low end and midbass, but everything else usually is on-point. I find the MS-8 does what it can within its own biquad tapping and gets things pretty smooth, but a few things usually could use some manual work in addition to personal taste adjustment.

In addition to using a measuring software in this way, you can also use it to find a speaker's true response output, instead of guessing with crossovers. For instance, before running the MS-8's processing, you can run a full-range signal to each speaker and sweep them at a frequency range suitable (watch out for tweeters of course), and then measure the response. This can help you see if the woofers for instance can even dig down to 80hz cleanly. If they can't, you can adjust your crossovers up during the MS-8 cal process, so the MS-8 isn't trying to boost a hole it can't fill. That's just an example.

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Old 03-28-2017   #12119
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by q2quest View Post
So, do you suggest flipping the polarity on one of the mids without running another calibration to see if the sound improves? If it does would I or should I recalibrate the MS-8 after that?

Are you using the MS-8's 31 band equalizer to try and get the response flat as you stated above? Or are you somehow using the Audio Control app to make adjustments?
First question... yes. Switch the polarity on one of the mids. If the sound improves you're on the right track. Listen for anything else that may seem off because now the acoustic phase of your other speakers may be off compared to the mids. As long as everything sounds good rerun the calibration if you want. You may not need to.

Second question... yes. I'm just using the app to measure the response (that's all it does anyway). I should also add that I actually used the "FFT" function on that app, not the actual "RTA" function. Slightly more detailed.

As stated above, the EQ is only going to allow you to fine-tune the sound, it won't fix "missing information" or cancellation due to phase issues. But also, like I said, once I fixed one phase issue (woofers) it then made my mid/tweeter combo out of phase acoustically with my woofers so you may have to change things around a bit until it sounds right. Hope this helped.

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Old 03-28-2017   #12120
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Thanks guys. The front components are Polk Audio DB6501. They are not the most expensive, but I believe better than what VW installed. The doors have been dampened with Dynamat and I'm also using FAST rings. All calibrations are done in my garage at night when it is dead silent with my MS-8 volume at -47. I have a bass knob that I turn down by about 75% and during the sweeps it is very quiet. I'm happy with the bass from the sub. I don't think that's my issue. With the sub disconnected it should still sound good with the vocals not sounding tinny.

BUT, first things first. I can listen to the stereo all day long with the car off, but within seconds of starting the car the display on the MS-8 says "Voltage too high, shutting down". The MS-8 is seeing 13.9 V with the car running and 12.8 V with just the ignition on. What the hell? Those are average, if not below average voltage levels. I'm beginning to think I'm not meant to have an MS-8.
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Old 03-28-2017   #12121
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Yeah voltage too high is not a good problem to have. I don't have a fix for you on that, not sure what's up.

If you need another solution, I can suggest Helix. Their DSP's are great. I'm using the V Eight and its a monster. No processed center channel though, only derived.

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Originally Posted by q2quest View Post
Thanks guys. The front components are Polk Audio DB6501. They are not the most expensive, but I believe better than what VW installed. The doors have been dampened with Dynamat and I'm also using FAST rings. All calibrations are done in my garage at night when it is dead silent with my MS-8 volume at -47. I have a bass knob that I turn down by about 75% and during the sweeps it is very quiet. I'm happy with the bass from the sub. I don't think that's my issue. With the sub disconnected it should still sound good with the vocals not sounding tinny.

BUT, first things first. I can listen to the stereo all day long with the car off, but within seconds of starting the car the display on the MS-8 says "Voltage too high, shutting down". The MS-8 is seeing 13.9 V with the car running and 12.8 V with just the ignition on. What the hell? Those are average, if not below average voltage levels. I'm beginning to think I'm not meant to have an MS-8.

Special thanks to all of the industry experts that share their knowledge here on the forum
2015 Durango R/T, MS-8, Massive N3, set of NX4's, Audiofrog GS690 and GS10, Wavecor center, Sundown SD3 10's
2018 WRX, Helix V Eight and G-One, AD W600, AP AR3 & AR20, AE AV10H-D2
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Old 03-28-2017   #12122
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by q2quest View Post
I can listen to the stereo all day long with the car off, but within seconds of starting the car the display on the MS-8 says "Voltage too high, shutting down". The MS-8 is seeing 13.9 V with the car running and 12.8 V with just the ignition on. What the hell?
I can't help you with the MS-8 questions yet because mine isn't installed yet but, these might help you with your voltage problem. Power Conditioners Isolated Mini | Intervolt
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Old 03-29-2017   #12123
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by KillerBox View Post
I can't help you with the MS-8 questions yet because mine isn't installed yet but, these might help you with your voltage problem. Power Conditioners Isolated Mini | Intervolt
Thank you. That looks like exactly what I need. Unfortunately they look to be expensive and halfway around the world
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Old 03-29-2017   #12124
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Thank you. That looks like exactly what I need. Unfortunately they look to be expensive and halfway around the world
We buy from a dealer but, we need the ultra big ones. The smaller ones like you would need are for sell on Amazon & in stock in the USA.

Intervolt DC Power Conditioner

https://smile.amazon.com/interVOLT-V...ords=intervolt

Simple to use & install.
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Old 03-30-2017   #12125
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBox View Post
We buy from a dealer but, we need the ultra big ones. The smaller ones like you would need are for sell on Amazon & in stock in the USA.

Intervolt DC Power Conditioner

https://smile.amazon.com/interVOLT-V...ords=intervolt

Simple to use & install.
Thank you! Somehow I missed the link to Amazon before. If I can't get a diode to work then I'll be ordering that small piece.
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