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Old 02-13-2008   #101
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
Who needs minesweeper?

Tigerdirect, Newegg, mp3car store and forums.

That's a misconception, that's an excuse.

So please price it out for me what it would cost. No free after rebates, no "I traded this", no warez, just a joe shmoe off the street gets his credit card and buys everything to do what the Ambolech says a tricked out carputer cand do. Sure if you spend a ton of time scrounging around for used deals or deals with great rebates, or black friday, or whatever you can put something pretty cool. But that's not really apples and oranges anymore.

Then factor in the time (there is a cost to people's time). Unless you can figure out how to reverse telecommute (take your home work to work with you and do it on your employers time), people's time is valuable.

I'm not saying someone who is motivated can't create a pretty bad ass solution that could do more than the MS-8. Just saying that it's not as easy or cheap and would probably cost much more to implement if you factor in people's time being worth at least $15 to $20 an hour (or $50 an hour if you were going to have a tech do it).

So great, it's a DIY forum, and great that people build their own rca cables and carputers and whatever else. But everything you do that the manufacturer paid someone to do still has a cost (monetary, time, etc.).

Heck, I just got rid of my Carputer I bought. It was a nice single DIN unit too. But I bought the thing to do a media library and then figured out that they have some nice home audio devices that you drop a hard drive in and just pipe that into an Aux in on a regular video head unit.

Heck, if I could get a functioning CarPC that did everything that Ambolech's does for under $1000, I would jump on it.

Juan

2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon
Pioneer DEH-PRS80
JL Audio Stealthbox
Boston Acoustics GT-2125 X 3
Polk Audio SR6500
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Old 02-13-2008   #102
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I know some of you have seen this...but here it is again

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...&highlight=dsp

and this has been posted numerous times

http://www.mp3car.com/wiki/index.php...g_via_Software

Maybe one day, enough lemmings will fill the trench, and people can cross over to the promised Nirvana.-some wiseguy.
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Old 02-13-2008   #103
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
I accept your challenge. Let's see

AMD BE2350 - $100
matx motherboard - $100
PSU - M2-ATX - $90
1G RAM - $50
Harddrive - $100
DVD drive - $100
OS - $100
Soundcard (let's make it 2 for 16 channels 1010LT) -$400
Audio software - $50+
Screen - $300
GPS - $100

$1500 and I didn't really skimp too bad. If you know what you are looking for it can be done for less.

Of course it CAN cost more, but again, you guys are making excuses. Again I ahve to agree with Abmolech, lots of excuses...this is DIY right?
No I agree with the part that it has the potential to be MUCH better, if you willing to put in the time to learn it all, just not the price of the PC though.

The hardrive- $100 bucks off since that one could crap out at any time from the heat and vibrations.

How readable is that $300 monitor in the middle of a sunny day?

Those 2 things right there will push it up another $500 plus the case, the power mate to navigate all your songs, the HD tuner (when it comes out), a mini keyboard and mouse so you dont have to lug around a big cheap clunker under your seat, materials and tools to mount the screen somewhat nicely, it add up rather fast if you want it trouble free like a car specific head unit.
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Old 02-13-2008   #104
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOneEye View Post
So please price it out for me what it would cost. No free after rebates, no "I traded this", no warez, just a joe shmoe off the street gets his credit card and buys everything to do what the Ambolech says a tricked out carputer cand do. Sure if you spend a ton of time scrounging around for used deals or deals with great rebates, or black friday, or whatever you can put something pretty cool. But that's not really apples and oranges anymore.

Heck, if I could get a functioning CarPC that did everything that Ambolech's does for under $1000, I would jump on it.
I'll see what I can come up with. It goes against the DIY nature about learning about it (took me close to a year and I'm still learning more), but I'll do my best. Expect a PM soon.

Maybe one day, enough lemmings will fill the trench, and people can cross over to the promised Nirvana.-some wiseguy.
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Old 02-13-2008   #105
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
I accept your challenge. Let's see

AMD BE2350 - $100
matx motherboard - $100
PSU - M2-ATX - $90
1G RAM - $50
Harddrive - $100
DVD drive - $100
OS - $100
Soundcard (let's make it 2 for 16 channels 1010LT) -$400
Audio software - $50+
Screen - $300
GPS - $100

$1500 and I didn't really skimp too bad. If you know what you are looking for it can be done for less.

Of course it CAN cost more, but again, you guys are making excuses. Again I ahve to agree with Abmolech, lots of excuses...this is DIY right?
DIY Mobile Audio, not a DIY computer forum. What kind of front end are you running? A free one? Your going to be tuning all this on a 7" screen as well?

Tell me more about this $50 software that does this:

Decompresser?
Compressor/limiter?
Digital input?
Digital output?
Room correction?
Loudness compensation?
Reverberation correction?
Choice of replay modes, Monophonic, stereophonic, surround, Logic7, ambiophonics, quadraphonics, ambisonics, VBAP?
Can correct recordings with VNC or non VNC?
Full active crossovers, using FIR or IIR?
How many independent channels?, IE mine has 48 routable and fully re-clocked.
Time alignment down to nano seconds?
How many EQ Bessel or your choice of FIR filters do you want per channel?
Terabytes storage?
Plays just about any type of audio recording medium?
Full RTA ability?
Can integrate with standard car controls?
Almost unlimited upgrade path?


Just because you are a very capable computer assembler, doesn't mean everyone else is. That's why some of us just go to Dell and buy a computer off the shelf, and _maybe_ upgrade it by adding memory later.

So we are still comparing a carputer at $1500 (or more, since I don't see a front end or audio software that would exceed what the MS-8 does plus you will need a microphone and probably some other form of tuning the thing besides touchscreen (keyboard and or mouse) and no cost associated to the time it would take to assemble and put into the car) to a $800 unit with a warranty, with a screen you can probably read in daylight, etc.

I got nothing against a carputer (I might run one in my next car if it has room for a larger touchscreen, but a 7" screen isn't going to touch it).

Not trying to be a Luddite, but some people aren't as comfortable making stuff (DIY might mean you do the work yourself, not make stuff from scratch) and computers are especially frustrating to learn (hey, I make an RCA, if it doesn't come out, I remove the solder and try again). A computer could make you pull your hair out.

So a fully loaded computer will do just about anything (and for that matter, there are some pro audio devices that do lots of the above you could interface with a PC) but they aren't for everyone (or everyone would have one).

Juan

2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon
Pioneer DEH-PRS80
JL Audio Stealthbox
Boston Acoustics GT-2125 X 3
Polk Audio SR6500
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Old 02-13-2008   #106
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

yall are being so winey. since when do we complain about installing/finding deals if it offers better performance. plus people are already spending near carpc prices for nav units and outboard processing units.

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Old 02-13-2008   #107
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abmolech View Post
Lets see now, is this DIY forum?
yep

So what if we have a computer lying around, and can do it for close to free?
How does MS-8 compare?

Oh thats right, we have the computer...


Clue
This is a DIY forum, yes all the inane sub woofer threads, and the silly passive car speaker recommendations, are making this forum just another car audio forum.

But this forum used to be about DIY, and that included using drivers that where the best bang for the buck. (mostly home audio), and therefore required ACTIVE crossovers and independent channels for there processors.

Tell me again how the MS-8 even remotely fits the bill?
Are you really assigning a computer with a cost basis of zero? Come on, heck, if your parents give you their old car that could be "free" too... Or if you got it for Christmas... or?

And you make it sound like I'm recommending a 7 band EQ/Booster. The MS-8, compared to almost everything else you can get from a car audio manufacturer, is pretty close to the top offering.

So if we wanted to bring in Pro Audio stuff converted for car use as well as carputers, that's another story altogether.

Juan

2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon
Pioneer DEH-PRS80
JL Audio Stealthbox
Boston Acoustics GT-2125 X 3
Polk Audio SR6500
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Old 02-13-2008   #108
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
The hardrive- $100 bucks off since that one could crap out at any time from the heat and vibrations.
Never had a problem with my full size hardrive crapping out. Only issue was reallly cold temps (close to zero). It's running great after 4 years.

Quote:
How readable is that $300 monitor in the middle of a sunny day?
Mine not so good (it was one fo the first liliputs that came out 4-5 years ago), but the newer ones are much brighter. Some people found the right 3M material to make their own sunlight readable, but it's not a huge issue most of the time.

Quote:
Those 2 things right there will push it up another $500 plus the case, the power mate to navigate all your songs, the HD tuner (when it comes out), a mini keyboard and mouse so you dont have to lug around a big cheap clunker under your seat, materials and tools to mount the screen somewhat nicely, it add up rather fast if you want it trouble free like a car specific head unit.
Case=build one out of wood or metal or sure you can buy one if you like, it's not completely necessary.

HD tuner-that's optional equipment just as on most headunits. I bought the DEI one (or Visteon) for $100 and the cable to connect it to the pc is $25. I haven;t hooked it up yet.

Still I think you guys are looking for excuses. I know I was when I had the H701, but now that I have switched, I can't ever go back.

Maybe one day, enough lemmings will fill the trench, and people can cross over to the promised Nirvana.-some wiseguy.
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Old 02-13-2008   #109
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Very interesting; I confess the carputer-DSP idea hadn't occurred to me until I saw this thread.

The important questions to me are:

1) What software is available for this task, at a reasonable price? Cubase VST I presume, what else?

2) Can I pile in 5 sound cards with multiple outputs each, and be able to completely customize each output channel via off-the-shelf software like cubase?

On the question of MS-8 vs carputer-DSP, there are several considerations:

1) The JBL has an auto-EQ'ing ability, which is reportedly very good (they won SBN and IASCA or something like that). Auto-EQ'ing is very handy and avoids a lot of pain in the ass work. Of course it still remains to be seen just how good the auto-EQ is. I wonder if you can get comparable autoEQing SW for the PC off the shelf.

2) Space. MS-8 = very small, carputer with multiple soundcards to get a good number of outputs = big.

3) Noise issues. Even with really nice sound cards, not sure if you will be able to make it noise-free when you hook it up to your amps.

"Music is Art. Audio is Engineering."
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Old 02-13-2008   #110
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOneEye View Post
So if we wanted to bring in Pro Audio stuff converted for car use as well as carputers, that's another story altogether.
Or you could combine pro audio with a carputer and really go to town.

Maybe one day, enough lemmings will fill the trench, and people can cross over to the promised Nirvana.-some wiseguy.
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Old 02-13-2008   #111
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOneEye View Post
Tell me more about this $50 software that does this:

Decompresser?
Compressor/limiter?
Digital input?
Digital output?
Room correction?
Loudness compensation?
Reverberation correction?
Choice of replay modes, Monophonic, stereophonic, surround, Logic7, ambiophonics, quadraphonics, ambisonics, VBAP?
Can correct recordings with VNC or non VNC?
Full active crossovers, using FIR or IIR?
How many independent channels?, IE mine has 48 routable and fully re-clocked.
Time alignment down to nano seconds?
How many EQ Bessel or your choice of FIR filters do you want per channel?
Terabytes storage?
Plays just about any type of audio recording medium?
Full RTA ability?
Can integrate with standard car controls?
Almost unlimited upgrade path?
I agree, that is one of my primary questions also. But additionally I want to be able to get at least 8 outputs like the MS-8 has, and preferably more.

"Music is Art. Audio is Engineering."
May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage.
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Old 02-13-2008   #112
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
I know some of you have seen this...but here it is again

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...&highlight=dsp

and this has been posted numerous times

http://www.mp3car.com/wiki/index.php...g_via_Software
Everything you want to know is pretty much there^.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkant View Post
Very interesting; I confess the carputer-DSP idea hadn't occurred to me until I saw this thread.

The important questions to me are:

1) What software is available for this task, at a reasonable price? Cubase VST I presume, what else?
Quote:
2) Can I pile in 5 sound cards with multiple outputs each, and be able to completely customize each output channel via off-the-shelf software like cubase?
Yes, RME, ESI-pro, M-Audio, Motu-you have to look at the pro cards. You could get up to 32-48 channels of processing if you really wanted to.

Quote:
1) The JBL has an auto-EQ'ing ability, which is reportedly very good (they won SBN and IASCA or something like that). Auto-EQ'ing is very handy and avoids a lot of pain in the ass work. Of course it still remains to be seen just how good the auto-EQ is. I wonder if you can get comparable autoEQing SW for the PC off the shelf.
Audssey and a few other programs with do auto EQ in the software world. Look through my links.

Quote:
2) Space. MS-8 = very small, carputer with multiple soundcards to get a good number of outputs = big.
You sure about that? HOw big is the MS-8? Doesn't it have a built in amp?
Quote:
3) Noise issues. Even with really nice sound cards, not sure if you will be able to make it noise-free when you hook it up to your amps.
Misconception. The right soundcard makes all the difference in the world.

Maybe one day, enough lemmings will fill the trench, and people can cross over to the promised Nirvana.-some wiseguy.
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Old 02-13-2008   #113
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Another issue, the MS-8 will be designed to work in the car with all the variations in temps and to interface with aftermarket and OEM systems very well (as far as noise).

How about any computer?

Juan

2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon
Pioneer DEH-PRS80
JL Audio Stealthbox
Boston Acoustics GT-2125 X 3
Polk Audio SR6500
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Old 02-13-2008   #114
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOneEye View Post
DIY Mobile Audio, not a DIY computer forum. What kind of front end are you running? A free one? Your going to be tuning all this on a 7" screen as well?
Roadrunner-frontend.

Ask Milox. I demo-ed it for him a MECA finals.

Quote:
Tell me more about this $50 software that does this:

Decompresser?
Compressor/limiter?
Digital input?
Digital output?
Room correction?
Loudness compensation?
Reverberation correction?
Choice of replay modes, Monophonic, stereophonic, surround, Logic7, ambiophonics, quadraphonics, ambisonics, VBAP?
Can correct recordings with VNC or non VNC?
Full active crossovers, using FIR or IIR?
How many independent channels?, IE mine has 48 routable and fully re-clocked.
Time alignment down to nano seconds?
How many EQ Bessel or your choice of FIR filters do you want per channel?
Terabytes storage?
Plays just about any type of audio recording medium?
Full RTA ability?
Can integrate with standard car controls?
Almost unlimited upgrade path?

www.console.jp then use all the FREE VST plugins.


I'm not saying a carputer is for everyone, but I think most people are afraid to even try it. It can a be a hobby in itself, but to complain that the MS-8 insn't available and to sit and wait for it when you could take a little time here and there to learn other ways...well I undertand a little. I get lazy myself. But there are other options and we are pointing that out.

Maybe one day, enough lemmings will fill the trench, and people can cross over to the promised Nirvana.-some wiseguy.
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Old 02-13-2008   #115
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

So I can go turn the car on, and expect music right then with a carputer like I could with the MS-8 and deck?

And if something happened and I needed technical support, I could find someone to service or help me with problems like I could with the MS-8?
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Old 02-13-2008   #116
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
You already have the next generation. You just need to step up and put it to use.
I know, I know. Unfortunately, with my GTi, it's not as simple as it may be for others. To make the change means a decent amount of additional fabrication and money needs to be spent.

Remove the 701 display: need to redo (refabricate) the center console to do away with the bucket that the display is in. That's a bit of cash to have that repainted, not to mention sanding all of the current paint down and back to a paintable state.

Then, since I'm not using a case in the car, my PCI card I had modified won't work any more. The case was making things run too hot previously so I had to get rid of it and go back to a caseless design.

This means that I have to fabricate a VERY solid mount solution for the PCI card and the riser that I'll have to use and mount that in the car.

Then there's the whole issue with trying to tune on an 8" screen...the programs available right now aren't exactly small screen friendly. I have a very hard time making all of these changes only to have to remote in with my laptop to my CarPC just to have a screen big enough to see what I'm doing. Seems counterproductive...lol

I've looked into other options, but the GTi is in a really great state right now. We're currently putting a very basic install in the truck. With this install, I'll be able to test out different sound cards and options for tuning easily without worrying about the GTi being out of commission for a show. Think of the truck as a test bench...hehe

Jan Bennett - Still reppin' the CarPC as my only source unit!

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Old 02-13-2008   #117
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by thehatedguy View Post
So I can go turn the car on, and expect music right then with a carputer like I could with the MS-8 and deck?
Sure - hibernation or standby will many times bring a computer back to life quicker than some nav units out there currently.

Quote:
And if something happened and I needed technical support, I could find someone to service or help me with problems like I could with the MS-8?
No - unless you are willing to use the Mp3Car forums.

I'm amazed at the number of people on this DIY forum who are so against doing a DIY project like this....strange.

If you want to follow the heard, go ahead, no one is telling you not to. However, looking down on people who have decided that they want to dedicated THEIR free time to such a project doesn't exactly make sense.

Just because it's not for you (you being any multiple of people in this instance) doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense for anyone.

All I'm seeing in this thread is a bunch of people trying to discredit the carpc based on THEIR views and what THEY view as important or not...doesn't seem to follow a normal DIY community train of thought.

There are those of us out there who found something that interests us. If no one had ever taken on this project, the CarPC wouldn't have gotten event to the point it is now...no smart PSUs for starters.

I say again, if you're more interested in going with the heard, have at it. A CarPC is NOT for everyone. However, if you like to be on the cutting edge of new ideas and new technology, then yes, a CarPC IS for you.

BTW - we've tried to make things as easy as possible for those unwilling or unable to spend the time to research which components to get to get a CarPC: http://store.mp3car.com/Stage_4_Comp..._p/ccc-126.htm

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Old 02-13-2008   #118
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by Abmolech View Post
Lets see now, is this DIY forum?
yep

So what if we have a computer lying around, and can do it for close to free?
How does MS-8 compare?

Oh thats right, we have the computer...


Clue
This is a DIY forum, yes all the inane sub woofer threads, and the silly passive car speaker recommendations, are making this forum just another car audio forum.

But this forum used to be about DIY, and that included using drivers that where the best bang for the buck. (mostly home audio), and therefore required ACTIVE crossovers and independent channels for there processors.

Tell me again how the MS-8 even remotely fits the bill?
Diversity is good.
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Old 02-13-2008   #119
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6 View Post
I'm amazed at the number of people on this DIY forum who are so against doing a DIY project like this....strange.


All I'm seeing in this thread is a bunch of people trying to discredit the carpc based on THEIR views and what THEY view as important or not...doesn't seem to follow a normal DIY community train of thought.
...and this is why the very nature of THIS forum is dying. The original thoughts and ideas are very far and few between. It's becoming just like all the other car audio forums out there.

Maybe one day, enough lemmings will fill the trench, and people can cross over to the promised Nirvana.-some wiseguy.
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Old 02-13-2008   #120
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6 View Post
BTW - we've tried to make things as easy as possible for those unwilling or unable to spend the time to research which components to get to get a CarPC: http://store.mp3car.com/Stage_4_Comp..._p/ccc-126.htm
after two years of considering it i think you've pretty much sold me. nice!

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Old 02-13-2008   #121
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I thought you were the one looking at the MS-8 as an alternative to the H701? Then if that is the case, why don't you follow your own advice and DIY something? Yeah, you have space constraints...but you spearheading the carputer thing and then saying what you've said just now is talking out of both sides of your mouth is it not?

And I haven't seen a pc come out of hibernation as fast as I can turn the power on my Denon and get music.

And I don't have problems with software bugs and issues with a transport. I don't recall getting boot errors when changing CDs.

Fact is carputers are more temperamental and a transport and processor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6 View Post
Sure - hibernation or standby will many times bring a computer back to life quicker than some nav units out there currently.



No - unless you are willing to use the Mp3Car forums.

I'm amazed at the number of people on this DIY forum who are so against doing a DIY project like this....strange.

If you want to follow the heard, go ahead, no one is telling you not to. However, looking down on people who have decided that they want to dedicated THEIR free time to such a project doesn't exactly make sense.

Just because it's not for you (you being any multiple of people in this instance) doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense for anyone.

All I'm seeing in this thread is a bunch of people trying to discredit the carpc based on THEIR views and what THEY view as important or not...doesn't seem to follow a normal DIY community train of thought.

There are those of us out there who found something that interests us. If no one had ever taken on this project, the CarPC wouldn't have gotten event to the point it is now...no smart PSUs for starters.

I say again, if you're more interested in going with the heard, have at it. A CarPC is NOT for everyone. However, if you like to be on the cutting edge of new ideas and new technology, then yes, a CarPC IS for you.

BTW - we've tried to make things as easy as possible for those unwilling or unable to spend the time to research which components to get to get a CarPC: http://store.mp3car.com/Stage_4_Comp..._p/ccc-126.htm
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Old 02-13-2008   #122
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

People are always going to give their opposite points of view whenever someone over simplifies and compares a complicated hobby inclined product to one that is made user friendly for the masses. They are just saying its not as simple as the ones that know are making it out to be.
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Old 02-13-2008   #123
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

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Originally Posted by durwood View Post
Everything you want to know is pretty much there^.
I'll check the links. Lots of stuff for me to check out here, thanks for the pointers. Very intriguing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
You sure about that? HOw big is the MS-8? Doesn't it have a built in amp?
Yes, it has powered channels on the output, but it is still quite small. About 9x7x2 inches, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by durwood View Post
Misconception. The right soundcard makes all the difference in the world.
What do you think of a USB solution in terms of noise, compared to pro PCI soundcards? For example, this:
http://store.mp3car.com/GIGAPort_AG_..._p/com-066.htm

Hmmmmm. A laptop + USB outputs might be just the ticket....I'll have to think about this some.

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Old 02-13-2008   #124
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Red face Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

My biggest stumbling blocks for creating a CarPC:
  • I want to use Linux
  • Boot times
  • Features


Now all of these are easy to overcome to some degree. Many people would just jump on windows, as their are some pretty good (and some expensive) packages out there to give you the HU like experince. Me, I'm tired of supporting Microsoft and their mediocre products. Between buying windows for 60 bucks, and paying for software, that's atleast 100 bucks that I could spend elsewhere. The problem is: the linux solutions appear to have much suck. So I have quandary.

As far as the bootup times go, I really feel that something like a CarPC should be an application to me, and shutdown/startup almost instantly. Hibernation or standby is a good solution for some people, to me it's not quite there yet. It doesn't give me the good feeling. We shall see.

And the final one, is probably more a factor of my requirements. I want a computer that will do bluetooth phone intergration, including addressbooks and hands free dialing/talking. I want GPS that's not just good, but great. I want OGG support, and wireless support so I can connect to it from my PC and push files up. I can't give up radio reception either, certainly not FM, but even loosing AM seems like a compromise. And most of all, I want it to integrate seamlessly without issues. Rebooting my stereo, fixing crashes, applying patches is not going to go over with the wife very well.

In the end, I'm going to look at it again when I go to select a Head unit/processor combo. I'm looking at at least a grand between the two for used items, if not more when I add the accessories and new purchases. And that's a substantial budget to spend on a computer.


Consider me picky, hard to please, and with high expectations. Not to mention unreasonable.
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Old 02-13-2008   #125
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Sounds like it really just boils down to what you want.

In this forum, appears the theme is SQ and how to get there without massive expenditures paying someone else to do it... A CarPC, appears to have lots of different capabilities from nav, to bluetooth, to you name it.... So the cost bumps up again in having all that capability, but the tough part is learning how to do the one thing the guy that wants just solid SQ and maybe media storage needs... Which can be typically taken care of by a cda-9887 and Imprint kit, or some other car-audio specific method.

Not knocking the hobby though.. I think the carpc's are pretty darn cool.. But their niche is very very very specific and pinpointed to the PC hobbyist still I think.

When a car-pc solution can do what a $400 active-capable burr-brown loaded head unit with USB/iPod input can do, and not require hours and hours of forum education and time in the dash, glove box or wherever to install, debug and implement.. I'll be all over it.

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