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Old 06-25-2019   #12476
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor! ABRIDGED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweaked View Post
Hello FordEscape, I only just found this post of yours. Unfortunately, the links for both the PDF of "Andy's Wisdom" and the link to download the manual and CD, are invalid. Can you please relink them? I would be most grateful.
Please see my revised sig-block for links
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DIYMA JBL MS-8 Andy's Wisdom.pdf (1.09 MB, 68 views)


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Old 06-25-2019   #12477
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Much better answer supplied above so I removed my message.
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Old 06-28-2019   #12478
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I have a theory about the lack of midbass on the MS8 calibration & would like to ask anyone that has ever experience it,

if you were using a center channel speaker or not?
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Old 07-01-2019   #12479
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBox View Post
I have a theory about the lack of midbass on the MS8 calibration & would like to ask anyone that has ever experience it,

if you were using a center channel speaker or not?
I do not run a center channel. Just a bi-amped two way front stage with rears powered by the MS-8. I had to do a lot of equalization to get midbass. My doors are treated with Stinger Roadkill, and I installed the Stinger FAST Rings. It took a lot of EQ, but I was able to get decent midbass, and a reasonably flat response in my car. Additionally, I was finally able to get a good center image. I had to reduce the gain on my subs. I read where Andy recommended running the sweeps around 85db. So I used my DB meter during the sweeps and noticed that although my mids and highs were around 79db, my sub was peaking around 103. It didn't sound all that loud to me, but according to Andy, that will clip the calibration mic and screw up the TA giving you a smeared center image.
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Old 07-14-2019   #12480
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Success!!!!

After one last brain fart, wherein I put the output RCAs into the inputs, I got it all sorted out input/output set up, 4 positions calibrated and it sounds really great!

Of course, I've got some tweaking to do. Sub level was very high and even after bringing it down most bass sounds like it comes from the sub. I crossed over at 100, I'm now thinking it should be 80 or 85.

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Old 07-28-2019   #12481
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I need remotes!
Please 2 is what need.
Thank you!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
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Old 08-03-2019   #12482
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Dear all.
I just installed a new (but old of course) JBL MS8, but found situation
as follow:
- The car ground was not connected to the battery
- The MS8's remote IN was not connected
- Power (+) and (-) were connected
- The display cable was connected

then when I connected the car ground again,
the MS8's blue LED was illuminated forever, until the GND is disconnected.

But when the display cable was disconnected,
and the GND was connected again,
the blue ligh illuminated for a short while, then went off.

Is it normal ?
Any cure, or should I return the product ?
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Old 08-03-2019   #12483
 
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I cant help you, I just find it amazing that this thread is still going.
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Old 08-06-2019   #12484
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

I just got my 2019 Nissan Altima SR non-Bose system installed and am having some strange distortion on 3/4 volume and a tough time tuning. If I do tuning myself with processing defeated it sounds better overall tonally but lack the time alignment, at that point it is just crossovers and EQ. See my setup below and recommend my next course of action. Be it active 2 way in the front using my existing speakers, 3 way with a midrange from the same series, make a center using an aftermarket enclosure and 6.5" coaxial, change DSP, or settle with what I have gotten. I have tried the measurements several times with level matching and various volumes but still am getting the same issues. Tweeters in factory dash locations, woofers in the front door, 6x9's in rear deck. Sub in the trunk facing outward.

My System:

JBL GX608C 2 way 6.5" Component - Passively crossed over fed from Channels 1&2 of Kenwood Excelon X301.4
JBL GX 3 way 6x9 Coaxials - Channels 3&4 of Kenwood Excelon X301.4

Diamond Audio 12" Sub inside of OBcon Godzilla Slotted Enclosure. Single Channel of Kenwood Excelon X500.1
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Old 08-06-2019   #12485
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Exclamation STILL Uniquely Capable

Quote:
Originally Posted by drop1 View Post
I cant help you, I just find it amazing that this thread is still going.
What's amazing (impressive) is that Andy, his team, and JBL managed to bring a product to the market that now a decade later is still uniquely capable and competitive in the market.

We're fortunate that in addition to the unique features, they managed to produce an item that's proven reasonably robust. It's still quite possible to find units that haven't been abused, haven't had critical components lost, and have every reasonable expectation of delivering great SQ for a long time to come, all at a very good price on the used market.

You can find items that touch some of the bases, but still nothing that covers all of the bases the MS8 does. Nope, it's not for everyone, never was, but there's still nothing else that touches it in the niche it was designed to fill. And that niche still exists.

IMO

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Old 08-06-2019   #12486
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Default Re: STILL Uniquely Capable

Quote:
Originally Posted by FordEscape View Post
What's amazing (impressive) is that Andy, his team, and JBL managed to bring a product to the market that now a decade later is still uniquely capable and competitive in the market.

We're fortunate that in addition to the unique features, they managed to produce an item that's proven reasonably robust. It's still quite possible to find units that haven't been abused, haven't had critical components lost, and have every reasonable expectation of delivering great SQ for a long time to come, all at a very good price on the used market.

You can find items that touch some of the bases, but still nothing that covers all of the bases the MS8 does. Nope, it's not for everyone, never was, but there's still nothing else that touches it in the niche it was designed to fill. And that niche still exists.

IMO
I agree and I have got a boatload of them in an air condition closet for spares until something else better comes along.
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Old 08-06-2019   #12487
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricanmeng View Post
I just got my 2019 Nissan Altima SR non-Bose system installed and am having some strange distortion on 3/4 volume and a tough time tuning. If I do tuning myself with processing defeated it sounds better overall tonally but lack the time alignment, at that point it is just crossovers and EQ. See my setup below and recommend my next course of action. Be it active 2 way in the front using my existing speakers, 3 way with a midrange from the same series, make a center using an aftermarket enclosure and 6.5" coaxial, change DSP, or settle with what I have gotten. I have tried the measurements several times with level matching and various volumes but still am getting the same issues. Tweeters in factory dash locations, woofers in the front door, 6x9's in rear deck. Sub in the trunk facing outward.

My System:

JBL GX608C 2 way 6.5" Component - Passively crossed over fed from Channels 1&2 of Kenwood Excelon X301.4
JBL GX 3 way 6x9 Coaxials - Channels 3&4 of Kenwood Excelon X301.4

Diamond Audio 12" Sub inside of OBcon Godzilla Slotted Enclosure. Single Channel of Kenwood Excelon X500.1
My suggestion is to get what you have working properly first and then add to it. To make it easy, I would cross your front JBLs @ 80hz and your rear JBLs @ 100hz - all at a 24db slope.

Your subsonic filter needs to be set according to your tuning frequency of your box and subs. (You don't want any speaker trying to play a frequency it is not capable of playing)

I would then find the maximum volume on your Nissan radio by turning it up until you see ok, ok, ok on the MS-8. This is around the maximum you need to turn up the Nissan radio.

Then run the MS-8 auto-tune with your amplifier gains at minimum and (rough guessing around -35) on the MS-8.

After the auto-tune, turn the MS-8 up to -6 on its volume. Then with a Zero Bit track MS-8 volume @ -6 and the predetermined maximum volume on the Nissan radio, turn up your front amplifier gain until you start to hear a hiss from your tweeters and then turn it back down a little bit. This is your maximum undistorted volume level for the Nissan, amplifier and MS-8.

Turn volume back down and set the other amplifier gains the similar amount of gain. Then play a track that you are familiar with to make sure your speakers are NOT being overpowered and everything blends together.

P.S. Save yourself a lot of time, by downloading a free speaker pop program for your phone and verify that each midrange speaker is in positive polarity (by disconnecting all other speakers other than the one you are verifying) before doing the MS-8. (The tweeters may in negative polarity depending on your passive crossovers.) The subwoofer also may be in negative polarity depending on what sounds the best in your system. So you I would try the subwoofer both polarities and rerun the calibration each time.

Also, the MS-8 does a better job if you can disconnect or cover the tweeters for the first step in each seating position. This makes the time alignment work off the midrange location instead of the tweeter's location.
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Old 08-06-2019   #12488
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBox View Post
My suggestion is to get what you have working properly first and then add to it. To make it easy, I would cross your front JBLs @ 80hz and your rear JBLs @ 100hz - all at a 24db slope.

Your subsonic filter needs to be set according to your tuning frequency of your box and subs. (You don't want any speaker trying to play a frequency it is not capable of playing)

I would then find the maximum volume on your Nissan radio by turning it up until you see ok, ok, ok on the MS-8. This is around the maximum you need to turn up the Nissan radio.

Then run the MS-8 auto-tune with your amplifier gains at minimum and (rough guessing around -35) on the MS-8.

After the auto-tune, turn the MS-8 up to -6 on its volume. Then with a Zero Bit track MS-8 volume @ -6 and the predetermined maximum volume on the Nissan radio, turn up your front amplifier gain until you start to hear a hiss from your tweeters and then turn it back down a little bit. This is your maximum undistorted volume level for the Nissan, amplifier and MS-8.

Turn volume back down and set the other amplifier gains the similar amount of gain. Then play a track that you are familiar with to make sure your speakers are NOT being overpowered and everything blends together.

P.S. Save yourself a lot of time, by downloading a free speaker pop program for your phone and verify that each midrange speaker is in positive polarity (by disconnecting all other speakers other than the one you are verifying) before doing the MS-8. (The tweeters may in negative polarity depending on your passive crossovers.) The subwoofer also may be in negative polarity depending on what sounds the best in your system. So you I would try the subwoofer both polarities and rerun the calibration each time.

Also, the MS-8 does a better job if you can disconnect or cover the tweeters for the first step in each seating position. This makes the time alignment work off the midrange location instead of the tweeter's location.
Thank you Killer Box,

I have already tried all of those items you listed after exhaustively reading the thread. I had the MS-8 connected in my Ford flex previously with the same amps and subs, but Kicker CS speakers and a center. It sounded great. I am just worried about pissing money down the hole for negligible returns after I already spend a good chunk dampening this car and getting it installed professionally (vs my rinky electrical tape work and velcro). My next step is to do the front 2 way active, but then I would end up running all the cabin speakers off of the MS-8 amps so I don't have to worry about level matching for them and gain structure.
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Old 08-06-2019   #12489
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

The main issue I have with the MS-8 processing being active in this car is the sound being hollow and distortion of certain frequencies at normal listening levels (80% of my volume on the HU).
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Old 09-11-2019   #12490
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Horray ... my brand new MS-8 installation is working.
Love it.
A lot of thanks to the enginneers who made this vintage DSP,
and this resourcefull forum.



Now I want to add the center speaker.
I read here that it should be aimed off-axis to the windshield.
But my center will be a 2 way speakers (4" and 1") in a custom pod.
The question is, should both speakers aimed off-axis,
or just the 4" while the 1" is still on-axis.

Thank you.
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Old 09-11-2019   #12491
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kocil View Post
Now I want to add the center speaker.
Suggest you ask yourself: "Why do I want to add the center?"

IF to provide a less-compromised stage for two front listening positions, then ask yourself: "What 'axis' makes sense when considering two positions?"

IF to try to enhance the driver-only listening situation … my suggestion is: "Don't".

(IME, and I've BTDT back and forth with and without an MS8 center using a variety of speakers, it does accomplish the former; but it doesn't accomplish the latter, in fact hurts compared to a well-tuned no-center setup optimized for driver only). YMMV


Last edited by FordEscape; 09-11-2019 at 10:24 PM..
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Old 09-12-2019   #12492
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FordEscape View Post
Suggest you ask yourself: "Why do I want to add the center?"

IF to provide a less-compromised stage for two front listening positions, then ask yourself: "What 'axis' makes sense when considering two positions?"
Yes, for two front listening position.
I drive with my wive every day, and we both enjoy the musics.

Regarding the axis, my understanding is that
the center speaker on the center of the dash can be on-axis for
driver and passenger, since both positions are still in the 30 degree
envelope of the speaker (left and right of course).

Meanwhile, the right and left speakers are:
- midbass : off axis in the door
- midrange : off axis on the A pilar
- tweeter : on axis on the A pilar

So i was asking my self, since the R/L tweeters are on-axis,
maybe the center tweeter should be on axis too for balancing.

An example is here ...

Volvo-bowerswilkins-center-speaker

Last edited by Kocil; 09-12-2019 at 02:21 AM..
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Old 09-12-2019   #12493
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kocil View Post

Regarding the axis, my understanding is that
the center speaker on the center of the dash can be on-axis for
driver and passenger, since both positions are still in the 30 degree
envelope of the speaker (left and right of course).
This paper has some good insight into how to mount speakers on the dash in relation to the windshield: Considerations for the Optimal Location and Boundary Effects for Loudspeakers in an Automotive Interior

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Old 09-12-2019   #12494
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzmtg View Post
This paper has some good insight into how to mount speakers on the dash in relation to the windshield: Considerations for the Optimal Location and Boundary Effects for Loudspeakers in an Automotive Interior
Dang.
I did not expect to get a paper for an answer.
Thank you very much, really appreciate it.
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Old 09-12-2019   #12495
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drop1 View Post
I cant help you, I just find it amazing that this thread is still going.
It is still one of the few DSP's that has a solid auto tune option without spending ~$1000 and still requiring a lot of user knowledge and involvement. I was planning on getting the CDSP 8x12 (before Dirac Live was announced) but then decided to buy a used MS8 because it was a good deal cheaper and I figured it would give me a solid idea of what a well tuned system can really sound like. Will be going in my mom's truck whenever I decide to splurge on a CDSP 8x12 DL.

AVH-X4800BS > TN4.900D > FF85WK > TM65 > RSS390HF in IB soon...
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Old 8 Hours Ago   #12496
 
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Default Re: JBL's MS-8 processor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzmtg View Post
This paper has some good insight into how to mount speakers on the dash in relation to the windshield: Considerations for the Optimal Location and Boundary Effects for Loudspeakers in an Automotive Interior

Just want to report, following the paper, here is my center channel.
The speaker is the same fullrange as the front R/L,
the box is custom made.
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Old 8 Hours Ago   #12497
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kocil View Post


Just want to report, following the paper, here is my center channel.
The speaker is the same fullrange as the front R/L,
the box is custom made.
Nice!

I got mine installed in the factory location. It's not hooked up yet. I have to replace a tweeter before I can retune the ms-8.

Speaker is a Dayton CX120-8 4" coaxial driver with a 3/4" silk tweeter in the middle.
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